Inside King's Cross: CH5

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by anti-pacer, 7 Mar 2017.

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  1. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    Couldn't two or three of those Southern conductors get re-trained as lift operators?
     
  2. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Watching it now, and was quite interested by the security person checking a suspicious bag - first thing he did was open it, which would surely have set off a booby trapped device. Seemed odd.
     
  3. GodAtum

    GodAtum Established Member

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    he aerial guys have a very cool job, what's their callsign?

    Do the camera crew need training to film on the tracks?
     
  4. EM2

    EM2 Established Member

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    How else do you check it? Pick it up? What if it has a tilt switch?
     
  5. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member

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    Obviously he did not regard the bag as "HOT".
     
  6. Chris M

    Chris M Member

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    I believe that people who are not PTS trained are allowed to be on the tracks when accompanied by someone who is PTS-trained and whose sole responsibility is to ensure the safety of those they are accompanying.

    Whether they are using this method or have put the crew through a PTS course I don't know. I'd be surprised though if there wasn't someone accompanying the camera operator at least though, as they will be concentrating (almost) entirely on the view through their camera and so have little to no peripheral vision.

    Regardless though I'm sure they will have had at least instructions in the very basics.
     
  7. Crossover

    Crossover Established Member

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    I'm sure some lift equipment I have seen has instructions on how to lower it if it stops working (releasing the hydraulic pressure) - that said, it is in a room nearby, not in a pit under the platform
     
  8. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Indeed; depending on the type of lift it is pretty standard design to have staff be able to operate it in order to release trapped customers, this would include manual lowering in the case of a hydraulic or something like power winding or manual handwinding for other lift types.
     
  9. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I'd always assumed that if it was a credible threat they would go straight for the Police and not touch it themselves.

    He couldn't possibly have known if it was a credible threat or not from outside, and opening it could have been his last act.

    Mind you, there was another case later on in the programme I also thought was a bit dodgy - the driver who was clearly paying more attention to being interviewed than to the line ahead. I did wonder if it was mocked up[1] with another loco on the front, but it didn't look like. Surely not within the rules?

    And they don't know what an HST is :)

    [1] The phone call to base by that bridge inspector definitely was. "Err, that bridge"? No way would that call actually take place like that, surely?
     
    Last edited: 20 Mar 2017
  10. Railsigns

    Railsigns Established Member

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    Or a 'creditable threat', as the guy in the office described it.
     
  11. Crossover

    Crossover Established Member

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    Well, it was a 91/DVT she was driving, not the HST they were talking about. I would guess such an interview would only take place on clear signals at least and not round complex junctions and such as they've done such interviews on other programs
     
  12. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member

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    Also during the track renewal section the statement was made that trains pass on the adjacent lines "at speeds of over 125mph" - oh dear oh dear
     
  13. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Yeah, I've seen it done before (the ones in cars are also very common, and I'm not sure if those are to be encouraged either) - but she seemed *very* distracted and not properly paying attention to the line, much more so than other times I've seen it. It was actually quite alarming to watch.

    Yes, everything they referred to as HST was actually 91+Mk4.
     
  14. RPM

    RPM Established Member

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    As a driver, it certainly didn't strike me that she was distracted. It was no different from situations where a driver manager is present in the cab, having a chat.
     
  15. JamesGar

    JamesGar Member

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    There would most likely be a driver manager also in the cab, so an extra set of eyes watching the track ahead
     
  16. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Established Member

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    Quite!
     
  17. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    ...and I'm not sure if this was a subtitle error or if they actually spoke it as well, but they stated the cost of the VTEC fleet refurbishment as £21 billion...

    Can anyone with good ears tell me if they did actually say billion instead of million?
     
  18. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    As VT are not paying anything for the refurbishment (it is the leasing company paying for it) I dont think it matters.

    There were a few errors in it but it isnt as bad as the other program was, but I am trying to work out why they went for a young, good looking female driver rather than a typical unshaven fat bloke! :lol:
     
  19. johnw

    johnw Member

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    I've just finished watching it and rewound and the narrator said million.
     
  20. EM2

    EM2 Established Member

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    Exactly. So the only way to check is to open it.
     
  21. Bromley boy

    Bromley boy Established Member

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    I have to say I'm seriously unimpressed with the HOT protocol which seems more appropriate to an IRA style threat, and out of date in terms of the threat facing us today.

    On my training course one of the delegates had spent time in the army. He pointed out that an IED type device would likely be left in plain site rather than "hidden", it would be "obvious" and "typical" (i.e. not "HOT"). It would also be fitted with a motion sensor so that it would detonate in the face of whoever moved or interfered with it.

    The guy taking the course just ignored him and moved on to something else!
     
    Last edited: 21 Mar 2017
  22. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    First one i have seen - an enjoyable programme for the normal person which gave some good information for the general public


    but that, at present, isnt the preferred approach of ISIS types in the west. They go in for grenade and gun/knife attacks coupled with suicide vests rather than the hidden device favoured by our Irish friends.

    I assume the response to a threat is intelligence led and will change if tactics change. I guess you asses the bag and take action you deem necessary based on your training and the information you have been given.
     
  23. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Or carry out a controlled explosion anyway on the assumption that it is a threat.

    My point was more that I didn't expect it to be the job of a security guard to do that (certainly not without fully evacuating the station first), and that the approach would be first to see if the bag could be claimed and if not call the bomb squad out.

    The impression it gave was of not taking the threat particularly seriously.
     
  24. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Thanks, as I'm not one I will take that as reassurance. It just didn't seem very comfortable.
     
  25. Bromley boy

    Bromley boy Established Member

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    True. There has been some training on how to deal with the marauding gun attack scenario (boiling down to run for your life and report it if possible). I think HOT ignores the Madrid bombings a few years ago, which I believe were IEDs left on trains.

    I don't honestly consider that the HOT training has given me any proper understanding of how to assess bags etc. For that reason, rightly or wrongly, I'm I'm not going anywhere near an abandoned bag, let alone opening it or moving it!
     
  26. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    I am not sure I would be going anywhere near it! We don't know how dramtised the situation was and whether the old bill had cleared the risk before filming.
     
  27. dragonblyth

    dragonblyth Member

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    Six months ago as I was going into Kings Cross I noticed a couple of full black duffel bags unattended just outside the station.

    Unusually there weren't any police around so I asked the information desk to let BTP know so they could take whatever action was necessary.

    The response from BTP was "not our responsibility as it is outside the station not inside".
     
  28. Bromley boy

    Bromley boy Established Member

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    HOT is really about keeping the job going in the knowledge there will be unattended items left on a great many rush hour trains and the overwhelming majority will be innocent.

    It's for the individual to decide whether they are happy to put in into practice! Many staff are, personally I'm not.
     
  29. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Thank you. :)
     
  30. TEW

    TEW Established Member

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    Do you realise quite how many items get left unattended every day? The scale of disruption if you called the bomb squad out and evacuated the station every time would be massive. You have to make an on the spot judgement based on what you can see and your training.
     
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