Is anywhere else any better, really?

[Jamesrob637]

In Germany six weeks is the norm, although some get less. Plus lots of public holidays. Only minus is: if a public holiday falls on a Saturday or Sunday it is not moved to a weekday, as happens in the UK.

To be fair, over half of our Bank Holidays fall on a Monday or Friday anyway! 5 out of 8 to be precise excepting every tenth year when the Jubilee has led to a ninth bank holiday, and that falls on the Tuesday after the second May Bank Holiday anyway! (Which gets moved to early June on this year).

We get lieu days if Xmas Day/Boxing Day/New Year's Day fall on the weekend however unlike, say, Bastille Day in France or Tag der Einheit (Reunification Day) in Germany, none of our midyear bank holidays fall on weekdays. But France don't have a lieu day for Bastille Day anymore, as I had to call somebody in Paris a few years ago when the 13th of July fell on a Sunday. This was the following day and they assured me that "most people are in office today: maybe a few smaller businesses take a discretionary day off!"

 

[johncrossley]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned integrated transport, given that this is a public transport forum. This means buses and trains don't compete with each other and you can often use the same ticket to cover a single journey changing between different modes. The UK is woeful in this regard compared to most European countries. The UK is unique in Europe with bus deregulation and British bus fares must surely be the highest in Europe.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Ah, I like Florence. I’m down on the South Coast, the nearest sizeable towns are Gerace and Locri. It’s like a different world that far South compared to the North

Nice, so you're in Calabria then!
I'm in Campania! Yep, the region with Naples and the beautiful Amalfi Coast, Sorrento, Vesuvius and the islands such as Ischia and Capri. Apart from the typical Italian issues (which has caused me to move back to the UK after secondary school in Italy) including bureaucracy, inefficient services (crap public transport in rural areas) and unemployment, I love Campania!

I also like Florence. Lovely city to visit. And I agree, having been to Bologna, Venice, Padua, Milan, Como and its nearby lake towns, Lecco and Bergamo, the north certainly is different to the south.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Every country has their own issues and it is only once you spend a few years living there do you realise how good we have it in the UK (providing you can live in a decent place of course!). I spent over two years living/ working in America and my list of what I hated over there grew monthly! Just a few things I found really annoying:

• Size of the country- Having to fly everywhere for work and six hours drive to see the boss are not fun after the first few months!
• Time zones- As the country has four time zones, you end up working from 8am till 6/7pm to speak with everyone.
• Money- The financial technology in US is decades old and if businesses need to pay you, they pay you via cheque! They hardly do contactless, don't have mobile card payment machines and still sign everything when paying via card.
• Food- Everything is filled with sugar and salt. Their milk lasts twice as long as milk in the UK..... So hard to keep fit there
• Fitness- The concept of walking to town to get food, cash or do a few tasks doesn't exist.
• Annual leave- I was so glad that I kept my UK holidays, otherwise you would get two weeks plus bank holidays.
• Workers protection- Most employees were on two weeks notice- meant that people very quickly leave jobs for new ones but also means people get no protection (which is scary when you have a large mortgage). Does also result in Americans working silly hours to look good for their boss!
• Health care- I still don't understand their system, insurance and prepaid health care. So expensive if you need anything and that is after paying a monthly fee! If you get cancer over there, be prepared to have the worry of dealing with cancer and dealing with massive healthcare bills.... Heck, even the ambulance service charges you to transport you to hospital!
• TV Adverts- Their channels have so much adverts, it makes their TV pointless. They even have adverts for medicine- in the UK you expect the DR to prescribe you the right medication, not to learn about it from a TV!
• Tax system- such a mess and a huge pain to submit your tax returns every year
• Quality of driving- Their driving examination consist of a short written paper and a 10 minute drive around the block, where as long as you stop for the STOP sign, you are good to go! It is a right over there to drive and thus people never fail.
• Guns- Where to start.....

Hopefully that is enough points! haha.

The whole country is focused on business and the country simply doesn't really care about the 'workers'. Worst thing is that people in living don't realise how bad they have it!

Public transport is crap as well - with a few famous exceptions like New York, if you live in a nice residential suburb, you have no choice but to drive. So much for a country who loves civil liberties.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Now time for my own opinion.

Pre Covid, I used to think that in general, the UK was one of the best countries to live in Europe. We have a fantastic public transport system (only downsides is the cost of tickets), schools and universities (only downside is that tuition fees in uni are very expensive, what a total disgrace) and loads of lovely places to visit (I love going around the South East by bus and train). We were also a safe country too. With Covid, I hate to say it, but this country has gone a bit down hill, with damage to the economy. So sad. We remain a safe country with lovely places to visit - but the economic damage that lockdowns have done is just sad.

Not everywhere is perfect, but after my degree in uni, I am considering doing 10-12 years of work experience, of which 5-6 in Australia (Sydney if possible, though I'll be happy with Brisbane, Perth or Adelaide) and the other 5-6 in Japan (Tokyo if possible, but I'll be happy with Osaka as a second choice). As some people have rightly pointed out on this forum, it's always a good idea to live abroad to see what's different when compared to the UK.

Now pros and cons about Italy since I'm half Italian and I own a second home there (not to mention I used to go to school in Italy from when I was 7 or 8 until I was 14). Italy has: fantastic weather, lovely places to visit, lovely beaches, great food, great healthcare. The food quality in Italian supermarkets is so great that it puts UK food quality to shame (with the exception of Lidl, M&S and Waitrose). And whilst in general public transport is crap - I'll give an exception to Naples Metro Line 1. In my opinion, this line has got to be the best ever metro line in Europe - lovely art and colourful stations (Toledo station was even voted as the best in Europe, not to mention one of the best in the whole world).
Now the downsides (which caused me to go back to the UK after I was 14): Italy suffers from corruption, bureaucracy, and a very crap public transport. It's alright if you are in the big cities, or if you are travelling from a big city to another (especially on Frecciarossa or Italo high speed). Want to catch a regional train, especially in the south? Be prepared for constant delays of up to 10 minutes or more (we Italians are perfectly used to it!), very short and overcrowded trains. I once had to sit on the floor for 2 hours from Cassino (a town on the Naples-Rome corridor) to Rome on a 3 car Pesa Atribo ATR 220 DMU, because the choice of 3 car was completely inadequate for an important service (the service originated from Campobasso - the largest city of the Molise region). Also, education isn't the best either - they don't teach English really well. And the majority of services are very inefficient as well.

So is anywhere else better? Well, depends where you go...

 

[D6130]

Especially in the rural areas, except for school buses that go to our equivalent of colleges (in Italian: scuole superiori), public transport is completely non-existant. You effectively have no choice but to drive, a bit like in the American suburbs.

Maybe we're lucky in Eastern Tuscany in that local public transport is fairly good and certainly far better than in many equivalent rural areas in the UK. The two main axes are the TFT Arezzo-Stia branch line, which has roughly an hourly service on weekdays and five substitute buses each way on Sundays (pre-Covid) and the Firenze-Bibbiena (with connections to Pratovecchio and Stia) bus service, which has six journeys each way per day on weekdays and two on Sundays. Other local bus services link the mountainside villages with the valley-bottom market towns and railway stations and - as @SouthEastBuses says - tend to run either at times to suit the high school pupils and/or on market days in the various towns. Further afield (i.e. outside of our immediate valley) you have the other TFT line from Arezzo to Sinalunga, the FS line Firenze-Pontassieve-Borgo San Lorenzo (both approximately hourly) and a roughly half-hourly local service serving intermediate towns and villages between Firenze and Arezzo on the classic Milano-Roma main line. The provincial capital, Arezzo, has a wide range of bus service radiating to and from other towns and villages in the area, as well as quite a comprehensive urban network which includes some of the outlying villages slightly beyond the city boundary. Neither my wife nor I drive and we make all our journeys either by train, by bus or on foot.....although we have occasionally accepted lifts from kind neighbours! Access to public transport was therefore a major factor in our decision on where to buy a property and we were very lucky to found a beautiful apartment in a medieval building overlooking the stunning piazza in an historic small town, with the bus stop 10 minutes walk away and the railway station 15.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Best to choose somewhere on the edge of a small town where one has no need to use buses or trams, I did that when I retired, partly luck too, mind.
There is something to be said for living near the edge of a country too, so one may go abroad easily. Schengen a cute little place, that would be a good address.

 

[D6130]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned integrated transport, given that this is a public transport forum. This means buses and trains don't compete with each other and you can often use the same ticket to cover a single journey changing between different modes. The UK is woeful in this regard compared to most European countries. The UK is unique in Europe with bus deregulation and British bus fares must surely be the highest in Europe.

We find that public transport in Central Italy is generally much more integrated than in the UK. With very few exceptions, the majority of bus services terminate outside railway stations, as do the trams in Florence.

 

[yorksrob]

There is something to be said for living near the edge of a country too, so one may go abroad easily.

Carlisle in a few years, perhaps !

 

[D6130]

Carlisle in a few years, perhaps !

....or Gretna Green?

 

[yorksrob]

....or Gretna Green?

Very Romantic

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Berwick upon Tweed trumps those, seems to be somewhere between Alba and Anglia but to belong to both. Llanfair PG Freeport might be worth considering too

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Maybe we're lucky in Eastern Tuscany in that local public transport is fairly good and certainly far better than in many equivalent rural areas in the UK. The two main axes are the TFT Arezzo-Stia branch line, which has roughly an hourly service on weekdays and five substitute buses each way on Sundays (pre-Covid) and the Firenze-Bibbiena (with connections to Pratovecchio and Stia) bus service, which has six journeys each way per day on weekdays and two on Sundays. Other local bus services link the mountainside villages with the valley-bottom market towns and railway stations and - as @SouthEastBuses says - tend to run either at times to suit the high school pupils and/or on market days in the various towns. Further afield (i.e. outside of our immediate valley) you have the other TFT line from Arezzo to Sinalunga, the FS line Firenze-Pontassieve-Borgo San Lorenzo (both approximately hourly) and a roughly half-hourly local service serving intermediate towns and villages between Firenze and Arezzo on the classic Milano-Roma main line. The provincial capital, Arezzo, has a wide range of bus service radiating to and from other towns and villages in the area, as well as quite a comprehensive urban network which includes some of the outlying villages slightly beyond the city boundary. Neither my wife nor I drive and we make all our journeys either by train, by bus or on foot.....although we have occasionally accepted lifts from kind neighbours! Access to public transport was therefore a major factor in our decision on where to buy a property and we were very lucky to found a beautiful apartment in a medieval building overlooking the stunning piazza in an historic small town, with the bus stop 10 minutes walk away and the railway station 15.

I guess you might be lucky. Here in Campania, unless if you are in the big cities or in fairly large towns - buses normally only run either on schooldays or very early in the morning to Naples, Caserta or Salerno with just one late evening journey back...

For example, in my village, Baia e Latina (CE, province of Caserta): pre covid we used to have a school bus route to Piedimonte Matese (a town with not so good public transport but better than Baia e Latina) so our students can go to secondary school / college there, and a 6am bus from here to Naples (with no return journey - I assume you'd have to change in Dragoni, located half way between Piedimonte Matese and Baia e Latina).

And tbf, I disagree. Public transport in rural areas of the UK is far better - many towns and villages in the UK get every hour or every 2 hour buses (even smaller villages have a bus service for non-school people too - it maybe once or twice a week but better than nothing, and they serve a useful purpose in allowing the elderly or those who can't drive to shop for essentials in larger places!). Some towns and villages even get buses every 15 or 30 minutes, but that's only because they are on a main important corridor between large towns. Not to mention, with a few exceptions, buses in the UK are far more accessible to the elderly or wheelchaired than Italian rural buses. Why is still acceptable in this age to run a step entrance Mercedes Integro/Intouro, Setra S417UL or Irisbus/Iveco Crossway which can suffer from long dwell times, can be difficult for the elderly due to 3-4 steps - idk. But at least most have wheelchair lifts so they are partially accessible.

Also I've noticed that in Central or Northern Italy public transport tends to be far better than in Southern Italy.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Maybe we're lucky in Eastern Tuscany in that local public transport is fairly good and certainly far better than in many equivalent rural areas in the UK. The two main axes are the TFT Arezzo-Stia branch line, which has roughly an hourly service on weekdays and five substitute buses each way on Sundays (pre-Covid) and the Firenze-Bibbiena (with connections to Pratovecchio and Stia) bus service, which has six journeys each way per day on weekdays and two on Sundays. Other local bus services link the mountainside villages with the valley-bottom market towns and railway stations and - as @SouthEastBuses says - tend to run either at times to suit the high school pupils and/or on market days in the various towns. Further afield (i.e. outside of our immediate valley) you have the other TFT line from Arezzo to Sinalunga, the FS line Firenze-Pontassieve-Borgo San Lorenzo (both approximately hourly) and a roughly half-hourly local service serving intermediate towns and villages between Firenze and Arezzo on the classic Milano-Roma main line. The provincial capital, Arezzo, has a wide range of bus service radiating to and from other towns and villages in the area, as well as quite a comprehensive urban network which includes some of the outlying villages slightly beyond the city boundary. Neither my wife nor I drive and we make all our journeys either by train, by bus or on foot.....although we have occasionally accepted lifts from kind neighbours! Access to public transport was therefore a major factor in our decision on where to buy a property and we were very lucky to found a beautiful apartment in a medieval building overlooking the stunning piazza in an historic small town, with the bus stop 10 minutes walk away and the railway station 15.

Also is, by any chance, your local bus company Tiemme Toscana Mobilità SpA?

 

[al78]

Everywhere will have its ups and downs, they may just be different from ours. And there will always be an element of the grass is greener for some people too regardless of where they are at any one time.

I'd agree. I live in SE England and it is noticable how much more crowded it seems to be getting year on year. Everyone seems to be in everyone elses way and many people seem to live in a dreamworld with no situational awareness. This doesn't seem to be the case when I stay with family in NW England. I have never lived abroad so have no idea about the relative merits and irritations of other countries.

One thing I do appreciate in the UK is that I can travel to the Scottish highlands, hike into a scenic unpopulated area and set up camp without requiring permission from anyone or having to pay for it. You can't do that in many countries. The Scottish right to roam culture is something to be grateful for if you are into hiking/backpacking/scrambling/mountaineering in the UK.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I'd agree. I live in SE England and it is noticable how much more crowded it seems to be getting year on year. Everyone seems to be in everyone elses way and many people seem to live in a dreamworld with no situational awareness. This doesn't seem to be the case when I stay with family in NW England. I have never lived abroad so have no idea about the relative merits and irritations of other countries.

One thing I do appreciate in the UK is that I can travel to the Scottish highlands, hike into a scenic unpopulated area and set up camp without requiring permission from anyone or having to pay for it. You can't do that in many countries. The Scottish right to roam culture is something to be grateful for if you are into hiking/backpacking/scrambling/mountaineering in the UK.

The NW is getting more and more populated year-on-year. Maybe not quite SE levels, but older locals have remarked how busy it is especially around Manchester and Liverpool.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Is anywhere in the UK declining in population? I was quite shocked to read that the population has increased by 15% in the last 25 years.

 

[al78]

The NW is getting more and more populated year-on-year. Maybe not quite SE levels, but older locals have remarked how busy it is especially around Manchester and Liverpool.

That may be true but I haven't noticed it so much in the parts of Salford and Swinton I am familiar with. One thing I have noticed comparing the two regions is that around Horsham, it seems like nearly everyone owns a dog, and a lot of dog walkers take up the whole width of a pathway with those extendable leads, which means periodically stopping and starting, or being slowed right down behind them whilst their dog sniffs every square inch of the verge whilst moving along. I have not noticed this when I walk on the pavements and paths around Salford. It is not a major irritation but it sometimes makes cycling on the road preferable to shared use paths and bridleways.

Is anywhere in the UK declining in population? I was quite shocked to read that the population has increased by 15% in the last 25 years.

I'm surprised if that is true. I didn't think the birth rate was very high in the UK. If it is down to immigration, that will come down post-Brexit (or at least that is what we have been led to believe and was what Brexit was framed around).

 

[eMeS]

That may be true but I haven't noticed it so much in the parts of Salford and Swinton I am familiar with. One thing I have noticed comparing the two regions is that around Horsham, it seems like nearly everyone owns a dog, and a lot of dog walkers take up the whole width of a pathway with those extendable leads, which means periodically stopping and starting, or being slowed right down behind them whilst their dog sniffs every square inch of the verge whilst moving along. I have not noticed this when I walk on the pavements and paths around Salford. It is not a major irritation but it sometimes makes cycling on the road preferable to shared use paths and bridleways.

It's one of the things which has dissuaded me from cycling along Milton Keynes Redways during our recent lock-downs. I doubt if I'd bounce if nowadays I were to come off my bike, and dog-walking with extended leads really does seem to have taken off here over the last year.

 

[johncrossley]

I'm surprised if that is true. I didn't think the birth rate was very high in the UK. If it is down to immigration, that will come down post-Brexit (or at least that is what we have been led to believe and was what Brexit was framed around).

Almost all developed countries would be experiencing population loss without immigration as women are having less than 2 children.

The government is actively encouraging immigration from across the world to make up for those no longer coming from the EU. In particular, the red carpet has been rolled out to millions of Hong Kongers.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Could be that inner London is losing residents. Still much too densely populated for me.

 

[johncrossley]

Could be that inner London is losing residents. Still much too densely populated for me.

I presume you mean in the last year.

I presume nobody moves to London to be in a remote place. Indeed, many if not most people who move to London are actively seeking a crowded environment.

 

[JamesT]

From Overview of the UK population - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk) there are population growth rates for 2018-19 for each of the constituent countries. NI grew fastest, whilst Scotland and Wales were slower than England.
Later on it does mention local authority areas which have seen population decrease. A brief look at the map suggests this has mainly been in rural areas, whereas the fastest growing appears to be around existing population centres.
Net migration is the main factor in overall population growth.

 

[nlogax]

Indeed, many if not most people who move to London are actively seeking a crowded environment.

Many, if not most people who move to London are doing it because their job demands it and / or they want to be close to where Big Stuff Happens. Crowds are the inevitable by-product, not the end goal.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

The best place is one thing, but the best time?

For me it is now, just retired, still healthy. Had some great times cycling as a teenager and later, still got memories of those and of the time the children were small, so now the best time, plus the future!

Might be worth another thread.

 

[Iskra]

Nice, so you're in Calabria then!
I'm in Campania! Yep, the region with Naples and the beautiful Amalfi Coast, Sorrento, Vesuvius and the islands such as Ischia and Capri. Apart from the typical Italian issues (which has caused me to move back to the UK after secondary school in Italy) including bureaucracy, inefficient services (crap public transport in rural areas) and unemployment, I love Campania!

I also like Florence. Lovely city to visit. And I agree, having been to Bologna, Venice, Padua, Milan, Como and its nearby lake towns, Lecco and Bergamo, the north certainly is different to the south.

Yes, but I'm usually just there one month a year.

I've been to Naples a couple of times as well as Salerno and Pompeii. I like that area and I like the historic centre of Naples.

I've travelled most of Italy and I like it all to visit, the Italian lakes are beautiful. The South has its advantages, I like it because it is cheaper and generally less touristy but still scenically appealing. My favourite city is Syracuse on Sicily.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Yes, but I'm usually just there one month a year.

I've been to Naples a couple of times as well as Salerno and Pompeii. I like that area and I like the historic centre of Naples.

I've travelled most of Italy and I like it all to visit, the Italian lakes are beautiful. The South has its advantages, I like it because it is cheaper and generally less touristy but still scenically appealing. My favourite city is Syracuse on Sicily.

I love the south. Best weather too!

Pre Covid, I used to go there 3-4 times a year (normally in December, then a week in February, then a month in summer)

 

[Iskra]

I love the south. Best weather too!

Pre Covid, I used to go there 3-4 times a year (normally in December, then a week in February, then a month in summer)

Excellent, whereabouts do you usually go?

I like the Italian rail system, many interesting trains, lots of locomotive hauled services around still and it's cheap.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Excellent, whereabouts do you usually go?

I like the Italian rail system, many interesting trains, lots of locomotive hauled services around still and it's cheap.

Naples and Campania region. Last time I went I also went to Rome.

 

[notlob.divad]

One thing I do appreciate in the UK is that I can travel to the Scottish highlands, hike into a scenic unpopulated area and set up camp without requiring permission from anyone or having to pay for it. You can't do that in many countries. The Scottish right to roam culture is something to be grateful for if you are into hiking/backpacking/scrambling/mountaineering in the UK.

Go to Scandinavia then, where it is pretty much universal.