Is Delay Repay unfair?

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by 404250, 22 Jan 2020.

  1. 404250

    404250 Member

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    Seems a bit unfair that one TOC would have to fork out for a whole journey if just their small bit in the middle was delayed. Someone might go from Scotland to the South Coast and the delay could be caused by one very short leg in the middle but that TOC would have to cover the whole journey?
     
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  3. yorkie

    yorkie Forum Staff Staff Member Administrator

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    Delay Repay applies if the delay at the final destination is of a qualifying length of time.

    It may well be the case that the train company who caused the delay only operates a small proportion of the customers journey, but that's just the way it is.

    The principal of the liability being with the company whose train being late/cancelled caused delay is the same for all train companies.

    Delay Repay liabilities are stipulated in the terms of each franchise.
     
  4. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    The question doesn't really make a lot of sense if you ask me.

    If trains run late because of bad weather, trespassers or animals on the line, it's likely to be Network Rail that almost all of the cost of the delay minutes lands on, and thus public money is used to ameliorate the losses of the private companies whose trains were delayed.

    Is that 'fair'?
     
  5. SteveM70

    SteveM70 Member

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    It works both ways. The TOC operating “the small bit in the middle” could run later than the delay repay threshold, but if the onward connection is still made then there’s no liability.
     
  6. PeterC

    PeterC Established Member

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    But if you had planned a break of journey would you be due a payment?

    (I am thinking more of briefly meeting a friend during an extended wait for a connection rather than planning to spend half a day)
     
  7. philthetube

    philthetube Established Member

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    I am not sure who you think should pay if not the company causing the delay?
     
  8. 404250

    404250 Member

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    Just seems a strange system to me. Not sure if I agree it's a good thing. Open to lots of abuse.
     
  9. SteveM70

    SteveM70 Member

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    If by abuse you mean people with non-train specific tickets claiming to be on delayed trains when they weren’t, yes I guess it is to a degree, but the flip side is that many many people who are eligible for DR don’t claim it
     
  10. 221129

    221129 Established Member

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    No, as if you choose to delay yourself then you aren't entitled to it. It is the total delay at the end of the journey that is what matters.
     
  11. trainophile

    trainophile Established Member

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    What about what happened to me yesterday - delayed 15 minutes on a TPE service (incidentally not one announcement or apology as we sat outside Sheffield for ages), which made me have to get a later train from Doncaster to Grantham, and ultimately arrived in Skegness (just under) an hour late, as trains from Grantham to Skegness are roughly hourly.

    Travelled on an Advance ticket Stockport to Doncaster which was only £4.70, plus the outward part of an Off Peak Return Doncaster to Boston (£20.85) and an Anytime Day Single Boston to Skegness £5.20. Reason for the “split ticket” was because my plans changed and I decided to stay in Skegness instead of Boston - an expensive amendment!

    So a 15 minute delay by TPE resulted in an hour late arrival at my final destination. I don’t intend to bother pursuing it as it’s too complicated, but wonder what the official position is when a comparatively short delay mid-journey causes a missed connection that results in a substantial delay arriving at final destination.
     
  12. xotGD

    xotGD Established Member

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    The element of the system that I find rather random is linking the repay to the price of the ticket. Same delay for multiple passengers on the same train results in a huge range of values. The passenger starting their journey at Leeds going to Shipley gets a couple of quid, but the person sat opposite who just happens to have connected from the London train gets big bucks.
     
  13. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    This is not complicated at all; TPE foot the whole bill for the cost of the delay in your case. £20.33.
     
  14. Wallsendmag

    Wallsendmag Established Member

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    To quote a wise man "That's just the way it is , some things will never change"
     
  15. kristiang85

    kristiang85 Member

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    Well indeed you get passengers doing the same journey on different tickets - e.g. advance vs walk up - and although they have been inconvenienced exactly the same way, the payouts are different.
     
  16. yorkie

    yorkie Forum Staff Staff Member Administrator

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    The pay-out is the same for all single tickets regardless of whether they are Advance Singles, Anytime [Day] singles, or [Super] Off peak [Day] singles or any other type of single.

    The difference you may be referring to is that return tickets qualify for enhanced payments with 120+ min delays, but the ticket type is irrelevant.

    It's all one journey; see previous threads e.g. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/virgin-delay-repay-web-form-confusing.172203/#post-3687296
     
  17. Djgr

    Djgr Member

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    Nobody forces TOCs to bid for a franchise. If they don't like the system they know what to do.
     
  18. A Challenge

    A Challenge Established Member

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    The payout percentage is the same, but the amount will be different. If I am travelling on a cheap long distance advance and doing the same journey as someone paying three times the amount for an open ticket with the same delay, they get a lot more back then I would.
     
  19. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    I recently did Cambridge-Birmingham-Stafford on an XC-only advance. The Birmingham-Stafford XC service ran over 30 minutes late, so I was entitled to Delay Repay.

    Another passenger doing the journey on a walk-up ticket would have been expected to get the first available alternative service (e.g. an LNWR service), so not entitled to Delay Repay.

    So I benefitted more (in repayment terms), by paying less (but got more of a delay inconvenience).
     
  20. kristiang85

    kristiang85 Member

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    Well if they had still been fairly on time, then they weren't delayed so you can't say they have 'lost out'.

    But I get the point.
     
  21. tom73

    tom73 Member

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    What do you suggest as an alternative? You can't really criticise something without having something "better" in mind.
     
  22. 404250

    404250 Member

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    Yes I can.
     
  23. 404250

    404250 Member

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    There doesn't need to be an alternative. Could just scrap it and reduce fares? How much does it actually do to reduce delay as it is?
     
  24. devonexpress

    devonexpress Member

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    I used it back in December 2019, when some clever cloggs decided to put a stopping pacer in front of a semi fast IET service which I was onboard. We went from being 1 minute late to 24 minutes late for absolutely no reason, literally as the pacer was departing, the IET doors got closed.

    I put in a claim for it purely just to try it but to be honest it's not worth it, I paid £19.50 for two singles onboard the same journey, all I got back was less than £4.

    In terms of TOC's I don't think it makes a difference, it doesn't drive them to perform better in likes of GWR It's revenue is extremely high so Delay Repay is a few pennies to them.
     
  25. plugwash

    plugwash Member

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    What makes delay repay so crazy is that the thresholds are based on fixed times, but the compensation is based on the price of the ticket.

    I wonder if you could construct itineraries with a very high probability of traveling for free, i'm thinking a short but legal connection from a train that is frequently delayed to a train that only runs every 2 hours.
     
  26. raveon

    raveon Member

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    No doubt a small number of people do it; dare I say it, a few from this forum!
     
  27. trainophile

    trainophile Established Member

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    I was thinking that now that most TOCs give compensation for 15 minute delays, surely there should be another tier for 45-59 minutes. Can be so annoying if you're 55 minutes late but only get half your ticket price back.
     
  28. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    Not as long as 2 hours, but there have been instances where, when booking an Advance I've been given the choice of one train with a minimum connection out of a long distance train, or an alternative train with a longer connection, for identical prices.

    I'd pick the short connection as a 'win-win':
    -Connection made means faster journey, but
    -More likelihihood of delay repay if not
     
  29. xotGD

    xotGD Established Member

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    Then the booked arrival time of the first service gets adjusted back by a couple of minutes so that it is no longer an official connection.

    Always annoying when I miss a +9 at Leeds and can't claim.
     
  30. Hadders

    Hadders Fares Advisor

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    How much do you think fares would be reduced by if delay repay was scrapped?

    I guarantee that fares would not reduce.
     
  31. paddington

    paddington Member

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    All tickets which allow break of journey can be used to abuse delay repay. You could deliberately delay yourself by stopping short or breaking your journey at a point when a train is 15 mins late. The train might make up time later, which you could assume from knowledge of the timetable or past patterns, but wouldn't know for sure at the time you decide to get off.

    There is no way a TOC could say you intended to stay on the train to the end of your ticket, they just have to take your word for it, well unless you post about it on railforums.
     

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