Is it compulsory to put your ticket through a ticket barrier?

[Abpj17]

The MetroCard ones used to wear out a LOT but then they changed something and they became much better (As in I was only replacing every 4-6 months rather than every month)

I find there is always at least one gate at the main barriers in Leeds wide open with a member of staff (trying) to guard it, arguably you could probably get by most times just by flashing an orange piece of card but that is another matter!

On the other hand, having it re-issued is a hassle. One year, my annual season ticket wouldn’t last more than a week without the coding getting corrupted somehow. Given my usual commuting pattern, gates were usually open. The 1 in 10 times I’d show my ticket to whoever was on the gate.

Very very occasionally, gate line staff will look at the reason code (invariably - something like code can’t be read).

For what it’s worth, it’s not made clear to passengers whether a card can be replaced more than once a year for wear and tear.

For the season ticket I’m buying ticket next week, I’ve decided to use the key

 

[PeterC]

I do wonder how these sort of employers deal with employees who needed to claim expenses for travel in London using Oyster or Contactless.

For my season ticket loan I would get a paper all zones travelcard which needed to be replaced a couple of times during its life. I once had an argument with an RPI who wanted to confiscate it because of the fading and abrasion to the surface making it almost unreadable.

Barriers only work well with smart card ticketing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On the other hand, having it re-issued is a hassle.

5 minutes at a ticket office of the TOC you bought it from?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

For my season ticket loan I would get a paper all zones travelcard which needed to be replaced a couple of times during its life. I once had an argument with an RPI who wanted to confiscate it because of the fading and abrasion to the surface making it almost unreadable.

Should probably have had it replaced a little earlier

Barriers only work well with smart card ticketing.

They work fine for millions of people daily.

 

[Abpj17]

5 minutes at a ticket office of the TOC you bought it from?

It's more like 20 minutes and disruption to my usual schedule. (Ticket office isn't open late evening when I travel home; long queue in morning commute window. In a week with reduced productively due to invariable train delays (and in some cases no seat/tables depending on the day) that's a pain to give up.)

It's been a couple of years since the coding went so regularly tho.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Thanks for all the replies, it's good to know that others share my frustration.

Yes I am aware that faded or smudged tickets can be replaced at the ticket office but this just adds another layer of bureaucracy and frustration. As Abpj says, it's a hassle when the ticket office opening hours make it difficult for you to get there after work, spend an age queueing and then having no guarantee they'll replace your ticket. For example, when my annual season ticket faded a couple of years ago, Leeds ticket office were adamant they couldn't replace it as they only replaced tickets they had issued themselves (we book our work season tickets online through an agency and Leeds were insistent I had to post it back to that agency and buy Anytime Day Return tickets while I waited for them to issue a replacement ticket).

Also, as PeterC points out, who decides at what point a season ticket becomes so faded/smudged as to be invalid?

The whole process seems remarkably customer-unfriendly, in which the frazzled commuter is made to feel like an inconvenience when all he wants to do is get to work and back with the minimum of hassle!

 

[AM9]

In my experience, (with NSE cards that aren't put through gates anyway) it's the way that the cards are normally stored that creates the fading problem. I don't use them now but wife does and the St Albans booking office advise slipping another ticket (expired) or a small piece of paper in front of the card when it is in a wallet. One year, the NSE card was left undisturbed in the wallet for months but it still faded. I suspect that it is something to do with the release agent used on the clear plastic film in the wallet, including the ones given away with the tickets!

 

[D6975]

Barriers are OK as long as they work properly (which most don't) and there are staff there to let you through when they fail to operate correctly.
On a recent visit to London I went from the underground side of KGX to the upper main station 3 times and on all 3 occasions my travelcard wouldn't open the barriers there to exit the underground (worked fine elsewhere) and on 2 of those occasions the barriers were unmanned. I had to tailgate someone to get through.

More recently in Manchester a Train and Tram day ticket issued at the Virgin ticket office at Picc wouldn't operate the barriers and the staff manning the barriers were fully aware that it was a problem. Many barriers just haven't been correctly programmed and reject many rover and ranger tickets. Back in June 7 day NW rover failed to operate barriers at most of the places I tried it. A 4 in 8 NE rover likewise wouldn't operate barriers anywhere, but this may be a deliberate attempt to get staff to check that the ticket has been correctly validated by the filling in of the date box. This is being generous though as a straight 7 a few months later didn't work either.

 

[EM2]

By inspecting it.

If it doesn't work the barrier the staff will have to inspect it anyway.

Exactly. Put the ticket in the barrier. When the barrier doesn't open, check the error code and examine the ticket.
I don't doubt that there are fakes that will open barriers, but they will be the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Antman]

By inspecting it.

If it doesn't work the barrier the staff will have to inspect it anyway.

Not necessarily, I've been waved through many times with barely a glance at the ticket.

 

[6Gman]

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
FWIW, to put the other side of the argument, when trying to travel out of MKC in the evening peak with large luggage, I find it quite irritating that I have to wait some time at the manned gate to allow a load of commuters who can't be bothered putting their ticket in the barrier (or having it reissued if it no longer works) to pass first. That is not what the manned barrier is for. It is for those requiring assistance, not those who cannot be bothered to use the barrier.

What he just said!

 

[Holly]

It's more like 20 minutes and disruption to my usual schedule. (Ticket office isn't open late evening when I travel home; long queue in morning commute window. In a week with reduced productively due to invariable train delays (and in some cases no seat/tables depending on the day) that's a pain to give up.)
It's been a couple of years since the coding went so regularly tho.

It should be possible to apply online for a replacement ticket and receive it in the post. That is how it works with debit cards.

 

[noddingdonkey]

I wonder if annual seasons could be printed on stock made of a thicker version of the plastic used for the new £5 notes for extra durability?

 

[AlterEgo]

I wonder if annual seasons could be printed on stock made of a thicker version of the plastic used for the new £5 notes for extra durability?

We should really look at mobile or cloud storage of tickets to make them truly durable.

 

[Hadders]

I've no objection to season tickets being issued as smartcards as long as there is no reduction in flexibility or route availability.

 

[noddingdonkey]

We should really look at mobile or cloud storage of tickets to make them truly durable.

Although plastic has the benefit of not relying on a battery not having run out by the time you want to go home.

 

[Andrewlong]

I've just got a new SWT smart card which you can top up from a machine. This is the way we should be going or e-tickets on phones. One problem is though you can't use SWT card at Reading station - barriers can't cope with them. Wonder whether arrival or Crossrail will change this!

 

[mattdickinson]

I've just got a new SWT smart card which you can top up from a machine. This is the way we should be going or e-tickets on phones. One problem is though you can't use SWT card at Reading station - barriers can't cope with them. Wonder whether arrival or Crossrail will change this!

Oyster will be extended to Reading as part of Crossrail. Whether it will be valid between Feltham and Reading remains to be seen.

 

[plymothian]

There is a BBC expose coming up about how gateline staff do not properly check tickets that are presented to them.

 

[EM2]

There is a BBC expose coming up about how gateline staff do not properly check tickets that are presented to them.

With the best will in the world, it is impossible for gateline staff to know all the intricacies and minutiae of every single ticket in the system.
With that in mind, it is therefore impossible to 'properly check tickets'.

 

[plymothian]

That doesn't stop the shock and outrage.

 

[yorkie]

They work fine for millions of people daily.

Not really. The main reason TOCs are going for smartcards is to eliminate this problem.

I've no objection to season tickets being issued as smartcards as long as there is no reduction in flexibility or route availability.

Agreed. Anyone considering making a switch to a smart card should seek assurances that their existing rights and validity will be preserved in their entirety.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is a BBC expose coming up about how gateline staff do not properly check tickets that are presented to them.

I would be shocked if a "proper" check took place, if that involied checking every detail of the ticket, and looking up permitted routes, time restrictions etc. Imagine how long that would take for every customer!

 

[greaterwest]

Not really. The main reason TOCs are going for smartcards is to eliminate this problem.

I don't think this is accurate, what Neil said was more accurate because there is still a very large amount of people who use walk-up fares, for which a smartcard wouldn't be necessary (though they can now be used for walk-up fares in SWT land)

 

[AM9]

Not really. The main reason TOCs are going for smartcards is to eliminate this problem.

Agreed. Anyone considering making a switch to a smart card should seek assurances that their existing rights and validity will be preserved in their entirety.

Except of course the anonymity that paper tickets give. Any form of smart ticketing where the traveller's authority to pass through a gate is verified by reference to a database controlled by the issuer, can (and probably will) be used to create a continuous record the ticket's use. The justification for generating this profile will be that the issuer can better tailor the deal that you get offered by knowing how you the traveller uses its services.
A more cynical view is that a record of your rail journeys would be a useful addition to your mobile phone's locations, your face and gait recognition on street & public space CCTV, your car journeys through ANPR tracking, your credit and bank card spending etc..
Not that I am paranoid, but there's no chance of making all travel smart/electronic without a big anti-snooping furore being raised by many.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

It may appear to be perfectly valid, but without it going through the barrier, how are staff to know that it isn't fake, and simply printed on plain card?

which , surely, is the point of mag encoding the tickets when standard RSP mag stripe stock is used ...

 

[JonathanH]

I would be shocked if a "proper" check took place, if that involied checking every detail of the ticket, and looking up permitted routes, time restrictions etc. Imagine how long that would take for every customer!

Perhaps if "proper" checks were done, the queue would encourage people to use the barriers so as not to have to join the queue.

What should really happen in an ideal world is that all passengers should use barriers. If the ticket does not work, you could be made to queue up at the excess fares window and a proper detailed inspection of the ticket should be made. If valid, the ticket should be confiscated for analysis (or a photocopy taken if valid for bresk of journey) and a temporary gate pass should be given for the person to leave the station.

The analysis should then be used to identify what additional validity should be added to the gates or to prosecute / fine if it is not valid.

 

[najaB]

What should really happen in an ideal world is that all passengers should use barriers. If the ticket does not work, you could be made to queue up at the excess fares window and a proper detailed inspection of the ticket should be made. If valid, the ticket should be confiscated for analysis (or a photocopy taken if valid for bresk of journey) and a temporary gate pass should be given for the person to leave the station.
.

So an annual season ticket is confiscated two months into its validity period. And what good does taking a photocopy of the ticket do you?

 

[Agent_c]

It may appear to be perfectly valid, but without it going through the barrier, how are staff to know that it isn't fake, and simply printed on plain card?

They could inspect it perhaps? Take it out of its plastic envelope and turn it over?

 

[JonathanH]

So an annual season ticket is confiscated two months into its validity period. And what good does taking a photocopy of the ticket do you?

That is a valid ticket. They would take it off you and reissue it on the first occurrence of it not working.

I was envisaging that the rail company would take a photocopy to see whether the barriers needed to be reprogrammed.

There are too many people waved through barriers with only a partial look at the ticket.

 

[Starmill]

With the best will in the world, it is impossible for gateline staff to know all the intricacies and minutiae of every single ticket in the system.
With that in mind, it is therefore impossible to 'properly check tickets'.

I assumed that that post was a joke? What is there for the BBC to expose - and why would anyone care!

 

[furlong]

The analysis should then be used to identify what additional validity should be added to the gates

Completely impractical of course, not least because the magnetic stripes often do not encode sufficient details to determine ticket validity. The gates are just a tool to save staff from manual inspection/collection/stamping of vast numbers of whichever lower risk categories they've decided to let through.