Is it compulsory to put your ticket through a ticket barrier?

[CaptainHaddock]

I have an annual season ticket to Leeds for work and last year, having to put it through the barriers at Leeds station twice a day damaged it to such an extent that by the end of the year it was virtually illegible.

So when I got my new one this year, I decided that instead of putting it through the barrier, I would show it to one of the staff manning the gates and he would let me through. Not only would this save the ticket from damage but I thought it would be nice to have some human interaction by wishing the staff a cheery good morning as they let me through. This has been no problem for the last couple of weeks.

This morning however, when I showed the season ticket to the young chap at the Southern exit he asked me "Doesn't your ticket work the barrier?" and I explained that it did but I preferred not to use it to avoid damaging the ticket. He then told me that I had to put the ticket through the gate and when I said I'd rather not, he refused to let me out!

So rather than cause any further hassle, I walked off to exit via the main entrance, where on showing my ticket I was waved through by another member of staff with no problem.

So my question is, Is it compulsory to put your ticket through a ticket barrier? It seems farcical that when you show a member of staff a perfectly valid ticket he can refuse to let you exit the station!

 

[yorksrob]

Not unless the barrier bloke tells you to put it through.

 

[Antman]

I have an annual season ticket to Leeds for work and last year, having to put it through the barriers at Leeds station twice a day damaged it to such an extent that by the end of the year it was virtually illegible.

So when I got my new one this year, I decided that instead of putting it through the barrier, I would show it to one of the staff manning the gates and he would let me through. Not only would this save the ticket from damage but I thought it would be nice to have some human interaction by wishing the staff a cheery good morning as they let me through. This has been no problem for the last couple of weeks.

This morning however, when I showed the season ticket to the young chap at the Southern exit he asked me "Doesn't your ticket work the barrier?" and I explained that it did but I preferred not to use it to avoid damaging the ticket. He then told me that I had to put the ticket through the gate and when I said I'd rather not, he refused to let me out!

So rather than cause any further hassle, I walked off to exit via the main entrance, where on showing my ticket I was waved through by another member of staff with no problem.

So my question is, Is it compulsory to put your ticket through a ticket barrier? It seems farcical that when you show a member of staff a perfectly valid ticket he can refuse to let you exit the station!

Sounds like this bloke was just being awkward quite honestly, I've never had a problem when I've needed to keep the ticket for expenses etc.

 

[EM2]

It seems farcical that when you show a member of staff a perfectly valid ticket he can refuse to let you exit the station!

It may appear to be perfectly valid, but without it going through the barrier, how are staff to know that it isn't fake, and simply printed on plain card?

 

[Coolzac]

But what if you need to keep the ticket for expenses, or for delay repay? In my opinion, upon showing a valid ticket the member of staff should let you through.

Besides, a lot of times when I am going through ticket barriers it doesn't like my ticket anyway and I then have to go and show a member of staff who then let me through.

 

[greaterwest]

The barrier attendant is absolutely entitled to ask you to put your ticket through the ticket barrier, especially if you seem to have made a point about refusing to do so!

Just to re-iterate what EM2 just said - how does he know it isn't a fake?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But what if you need to keep the ticket for expenses, or for delay repay? In my opinion, upon showing a valid ticket the member of staff should let you through.

Besides, a lot of times when I am going through ticket barriers it doesn't like my ticket anyway and I then have to go and show a member of staff who then let me through.

Then say to the member of staff that you'd like to keep the ticket for expenses, rather than just present them with a ticket and expect to be let through.

The OP has a season ticket, so this need not apply in this scenario.

 

[Coolzac]

It may appear to be perfectly valid, but without it going through the barrier, how are staff to know that it isn't fake, and simply printed on plain card?

This is not a way of testing out fake tickets, as the ticket barriers reject many tickets that are perfectly valid such as some time-restricted tickets, advance tickets etc

 

[EM2]

This is not a way of testing out fake tickets, as the ticket barriers reject many tickets that are perfectly valid such as some time-restricted tickets, advance tickets etc

But the error code on the gate will tell the staff why it was rejected.

 

[Antman]

But what if you need to keep the ticket for expenses, or for delay repay? In my opinion, upon showing a valid ticket the member of staff should let you through.

Besides, a lot of times when I am going through ticket barriers it doesn't like my ticket anyway and I then have to go and show a member of staff who then let me through.

Exactly and I was specifically told by barrier staff not to put the ticket through the barriers if I need to keep it for expenses as it's a pain for them having to retrieve it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But the error code on the gate will tell the staff why it was rejected.

Would they really be interested? Not in my experience.

 

[greaterwest]

Would they really be interested? Not in my experience.

If they're a pro-active member of staff, they probably would be, yes.

 

[najaB]

So my question is, Is it compulsory to put your ticket through a ticket barrier?

As far as I know, no it is not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh grow up. :roll: Its not false imprisonment if you are asked to put your ticket in a ticket barrier. It being asked to put your ticket through a ticket barrier.

Is the OP aware that a free of charge replacement is available if the ticket wears out?

It is best that tickets capable of being used in the barriers are. If nothing else, it's much easier to produce a fake convincing to the naked eye than one with the correct, working encoding on it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is not a way of testing out fake tickets, as the ticket barriers reject many tickets that are perfectly valid such as some time-restricted tickets, advance tickets etc

They do, but it is better use of barrier staff's time to have a more detailed look at rejected tickets and resolve the reason why they were rejected than to keep looking at season tickets from people who can't be bothered putting them in the barrier.

By the way:

https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/media/1058/railway-byelaws.pdf

9 (2) says:

(2)
Where the entrance to or exit from any platform or station is
via a manned or an automatic ticket barrier no person shall enter
or leave the station, except with permission from an authorised p
erson, without passing through the barrier in the correct manner.

OK, you could argue about what the "correct manner" is, but I would argue it is inserting the ticket in the barrier. It doesn't say that permission has to be granted, and in the OP's case it wasn't.
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FWIW, to put the other side of the argument, when trying to travel out of MKC in the evening peak with large luggage, I find it quite irritating that I have to wait some time at the manned gate to allow a load of commuters who can't be bothered putting their ticket in the barrier (or having it reissued if it no longer works) to pass first. That is not what the manned barrier is for. It is for those requiring assistance, not those who cannot be bothered to use the barrier.

 

[yorkie]

It may appear to be perfectly valid, but without it going through the barrier, how are staff to know that it isn't fake, and simply printed on plain card?

Barriers can't tell if a ticket is fake.

There are (or were) numerous Travelcards (produced in Eastern Europe, I believe) doing the rounds which work barriers, but a human giving it a good look would realise it's fake, but only by looking up the station codes (I think they had the code for somewhere like Rowley Regis, but the issuing station was printed as Waterloo). It look LU staff to put an end to the scam, because NR staff and systems were fooled by it.

And most of the tickets I use at Leeds are rejected for reasons such as "Not valid at this location", when they most certainly are valid via Leeds Group.

Just to re-iterate what EM2 just said - how does he know it isn't a fake?

He still won't know!

 

[Antman]

If they're a pro-active member of staff, they probably would be, yes.

My experience is invariably, go to the member of staff who opens the gate with or without looking at the ticket. I have never known them to investigate why it was rejected.

 

[F Great Eastern]

If I was a revenue protection officer, and I saw someone who went out of their way to refuse to use a ticket in a barrier, I would have strong suspicion that they may be using a fake ticket and would act exactly like the other person, especially if they said before even showing the ticket that they don't want to use the barrier, on a scale of 1-10 my suspicions would be about 9. If you had heavy luggage however, the suspicion would be less.

Personally I often go through the wider gate and show my ticket to the guy there rather than going through a barrier when I have luggage because it's just easier, and never had a problem, but if he or she asked me to scan the ticket I'd have no issue in doing so and if someone did have an issue with doing so and I was a RPO I'd have even more suspicion about the ticket being a fake and look at it even closer.

 

[greaterwest]

OK, you could argue about what the "correct manner" is, but I would argue it is inserting the ticket in the barrier. It doesn't say that permission has to be granted, and in the OP's case it wasn't.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
FWIW, to put the other side of the argument, when trying to travel out of MKC in the evening peak with large luggage, I find it quite irritating that I have to wait some time at the manned gate to allow a load of commuters who can't be bothered putting their ticket in the barrier (or having it reissued if it no longer works) to pass first. That is not what the manned barrier is for. It is for those requiring assistance, not those who cannot be bothered to use the barrier.

If I were manning that barrier I would be watching for people waiting to come in & raise my voice asking the long queue of people to wait if there is someone with large bags/a bike/etc through the wide aisle gate. If anyone complains, I'd politely remind them what the wide aisle gate is actually for.

I've done it before and it sometimes causes the queue of lazy commuters to actually get their tickets out and use the other barriers!

 

[yorkie]

.... Is it compulsory to put your ticket through a ticket barrier? It seems farcical that when you show a member of staff a perfectly valid ticket he can refuse to let you exit the station!

It is compulsory to comply with a request to do so, if you wish to exit the station.

The company would rather you wore out the ticket as they will be happy to issue a replacement each time it wears out.

 

[AlterEgo]

It may appear to be perfectly valid, but without it going through the barrier, how are staff to know that it isn't fake, and simply printed on plain card?

By inspecting it.

If it doesn't work the barrier the staff will have to inspect it anyway.

 

[bramling]

It is compulsory to comply with a request to do so, if you wish to exit the station.

The company would rather you wore out the ticket as they will be happy to issue a replacement each time it wears out.

That's all well and good, but it requires the passenger to pay a visit to the ticket office. One of the reasons for having a season ticket is not having to visit the ticket office. In my case, the times I travel mean there's a long queue in the morning, and it's closed in the evening.

I find a bigger issue than magnetic strips wearing out is that on modern tickets the print seems to fade, eventually making the writing on the ticket unreadable. This has happened to me three years running after only a couple of months, although the magnetic strip still works. So yes I will avoid using gates as far as practicably possible in order to prolong the life of the ticket, where I am all the staff seem quite happy with this.

 

[Colly405]

Of course, there is the other side to this at my local station in the evening peak at say the arrival of a train from London. There are only 4 normal barriers plus one wide one, and there is a member of staff at the wide one *and* a member of the staff standing by a normal one at the other end checking rejected tickets, making it much harder to get your ticket into that specific machine, and slowign everyone down.

 

[The Ham]

FWIW, to put the other side of the argument, when trying to travel out of MKC in the evening peak with large luggage, I find it quite irritating that I have to wait some time at the manned gate to allow a load of commuters who can't be bothered putting their ticket in the barrier (or having it reissued if it no longer works) to pass first. That is not what the manned barrier is for. It is for those requiring assistance, not those who cannot be bothered to use the barrier.

However, without a number of people using the wide gates the queues for the normal barriers could get very big, to the extent that if three trains arrive at a similar time at some stations where there are a limited number of gates and one has failed it could even lead to safety issues due to the numbers of people on platforms.

As such the other side of the argument about not being able to access a station with large luggage would be not being able to move about the station due to large numbers of people blocking walking routes as they can't exit the station fast enough.

Generally, by using the wide gates, the flows are such that everyone dissipates within a few minutes. Which, unless you are turning up just on time for your train, shouldn't be too much of a delay.

I would say that my experience is that staff will allow people with large items through once there are more than a few of them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

However, without a number of people using the wide gates

MKC has one manned gate and about 10 automatic barriers (I forget the exact number, but it's about that). Therefore, people walking through the manned gate will only increase the flow by a tenth. Not really significant.

In practice if it's getting dangerous the barriers all need to be released, which will clear it quickly.

 

[cjmillsnun]

That's all well and good, but it requires the passenger to pay a visit to the ticket office. One of the reasons for having a season ticket is not having to visit the ticket office. In my case, the times I travel mean there's a long queue in the morning, and it's closed in the evening.

I find a bigger issue than magnetic strips wearing out is that on modern tickets the print seems to fade, eventually making the writing on the ticket unreadable. This has happened to me three years running after only a couple of months, although the magnetic strip still works. So yes I will avoid using gates as far as practicably possible in order to prolong the life of the ticket, where I am all the staff seem quite happy with this.

The main reason to buy a season is to save money.

The ticket belongs to the issuing TOC and their staff or the staff of another TOC may require you to use the barrier in line with byelaws.

 

[DaiGog]

You must offer up your ticket for inspection to a railway official on demand. It is reasonable that, as part of a ticket inspection, a gateline attendant may wish to pass the ticket through an electronic gate.

As mentioned above, the bye-laws include a requirement to comply with any reasonable request made by an authorised member of staff, and arguing that passing a mag stripe ticket though a ticket gate is unreasonable, is a very weak argument.

 

[bb21]

If I was a revenue protection officer, and I saw someone who went out of their way to refuse to use a ticket in a barrier, I would have strong suspicion that they may be using a fake ticket and would act exactly like the other person, especially if they said before even showing the ticket that they don't want to use the barrier, on a scale of 1-10 my suspicions would be about 9. If you had heavy luggage however, the suspicion would be less.

Personally I often go through the wider gate and show my ticket to the guy there rather than going through a barrier when I have luggage because it's just easier, and never had a problem, but if he or she asked me to scan the ticket I'd have no issue in doing so and if someone did have an issue with doing so and I was a RPO I'd have even more suspicion about the ticket being a fake and look at it even closer.

Quite.

Anyone going out of their way to refuse using the gateline will instantly set alarm bells ringing, especially with a season ticket.

Manually inspecting tickets won't necessarily spot fakes, as the quality of fake tickets improve. The gateline is one mechanism capable of recognising some fakes which might be missed with manual inspection.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

That's all well and good, but it requires the passenger to pay a visit to the ticket office. One of the reasons for having a season ticket is not having to visit the ticket office. In my case, the times I travel mean there's a long queue in the morning, and it's closed in the evening.

The print on my season ticket wears out so I just have it replaced between 2 and 3 times a year. I need to be able to read the ticket number to use my SWT free gold card vouchers.

So it is not realy much of an overhead to visit the ticket office a couple of times a year rather than everyday if I was not using a season ticket.

When I traveled between Feltham and Didcot Parkway via Reading the nice man on the barriers let me in and out everyday so I could get breakfast while waiting for my connection.

 

[bramling]

The main reason to buy a season is to save money.

The ticket belongs to the issuing TOC and their staff or the staff of another TOC may require you to use the barrier in line with byelaws.

Doesn't resolve the issue of the TOC not providing a ticket which is fit for purpose, though, does it? The increase in gates has no doubt not helped the situation, as the physical act of putting the ticket in/out of the wallet is what causes the problem. If the wording gets worn down, then either one has to visit the ticket office (inconvenient) or potentially get harassed every time a manual ticket inspection occurs.

In my case I'd almost certainly save money buying daily tickets, so the idea that everyone buys a season to save money is a misnomer.

Can't speak for everywhere, but the staff at my local station are more than happy to let annual ticket holders through without using the gates. Although busy, it's not busy enough that they don't know who the regulars are. I'd regard this is good customer service.

 

[boxy321]

My season tickets get posted home (direct debit) once a month so the issue with fading isn't a problem as they get replaced every 30 days. This works out the same as paying annually BTW.

However, each time the new ones arrive the magnetic strip either doesn't work or is intermittent in the barriers. I have to walk up to the ticket office and they gladly print me off a fully working replacement at no charge. This took a while the first time as Virgin needed my details but this was once only.

Apparently, the posted ticket envelopes can get scanned by Royal Mail which corrupts the magnetic strips. How true this is I don't know.

 

[Hadders]

If barriers are in operation then I always put my ticket through. If they've been left open then I simply walk through.

The only exception is if I need to keep a ticket for Delay Repay when I'll specifically ask to be me through manually after explaining why - I've never been refused.

Companies who insist on tickets being submitted for expenses claims need to change their policy. There is no HMRC reason to submit the actual ticket - a receipt will do. If companies are that concerned about employee abuse then they should set up an account with a train operating company (or even the trainline) and pre-purchase tickets for colleagues who need to travel on business. I do wonder how these sort of employers deal with employees who needed to claim expenses for travel in London using Oyster or Contactless.

 

[johntea]

The MetroCard ones used to wear out a LOT but then they changed something and they became much better (As in I was only replacing every 4-6 months rather than every month)

I find there is always at least one gate at the main barriers in Leeds wide open with a member of staff (trying) to guard it, arguably you could probably get by most times just by flashing an orange piece of card but that is another matter!