Island Line Railway - current state and the future

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Surely Smallbrook Junction is a significant oversight by the local council.

It must be worrying for residents to be told that their local council can make "a significant oversight" to which you allude.

 

[Jay77]

has anybody considerd converting the route to narrow guage? This could cut a lot of cost and traction doesnt neccesarily need to be steam powerd. look at how the bure valley railway prospered after conversion for example https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bure_Valley_Railway

or how about converting glasgow subway stock to standard guage?

 

[xc170]

I'd be looking at using DLR stock, new or used and convert to ATO, yes it'll cost a fair amount to make it happen, but you'll save on staffing cost, only needing one member of staff per train and it would secure the future for another 20 years at least...

 

[K.o.R]

I would just like to say that I am a huge fan of the Island Line; I consider travelling on it one of the highlights of any trip over to the Isle of Wight. It makes me very sad to see any chance of it being closed, or that it may end up a diesel-powered system.

I make no secret of the fact that I, in general, despise bus travel, though getting to be on the upper deck while subject to the, ah, lively driving habits of Southern Vectis does have a certain charm. Being stuck in traffic from Ryde to Newport, however, is not, especially around the entrance to Newport bus station.

I am one of those people that won't take a bus unless I absolutely have to (so, for anywhere not on the east coast) and would not accept any talk that involves replacement of a rail line with any kind of bus. Gosport being a prime example that makes me seethe.

Personally I would take the tram option with the steam railway extending to St Johns Road, for the relative ease of extending. The lack of some kind of rail link Ryde-Newport at the very least is madness.

 

[Olaf]

I don't think this has been referenced on this thread so far:

Developing a more sustainable future for Island Line
https://www.railfuture.org.uk/display1619

Some of the options will be of interest.

Next milestone is delivery of the report to DfT by March 2018.

 

[emil]

Interesting article covered in the current Heritage Railway magazine about future of Island Railway.
Issue 237 January 2018 from meeting on December 14th.
Includes Ryde to Newport steam service. Line to run to Newport harbour with a loop to the quayside. Smallbrook junction could close if access to mainline is made.
Lowering track at Ryde tunnel. Extension to Ventnor. The Keep Island line in the franchise (KILF) effectively rules out closure or a tram or bus guided transport system.

 

[Olaf]

Interesting article covered in the current Heritage Railway magazine about future of Island Railway.
Issue 237 January 2018 from meeting on December 14th.
Includes Ryde to Newport steam service. Line to run to Newport harbour with a loop to the quayside. Smallbrook junction could close if access to mainline is made.
Lowering track at Ryde tunnel. Extension to Ventnor. The Keep Island line in the franchise (KILF) effectively rules out closure or a tram or bus guided transport system.

Until SWR publishes their proposals none of that is set in stone.

Also, if anything came of the 25 lease proposal, then the Island Line would mots likely come out of the Wessex Route franchise.

 

[MarkyT]

Smallbrook junction could close if access to mainline is made.

That possible option will have affected decisions on the the local housing development mentioned earlier. If steam railway operations were extended to Ryde St Johns station, then the Island Line platform might be relocated on the other (east) side of the single line, avoiding any expensive access bridge works. The steam railway, on its own dedicated single line, would thus lose its Smallbrook stop with the interchange relocated to St Johns.

 

[Chris125]

I don't think this has been referenced on this thread so far:

Rest assured it was debated at some length back in early November

Interesting article covered in the current Heritage Railway magazine about future of Island Railway.

I think the proposals come from the recent meeting at Shanklin Theatre - the presentation can be found on the KILF facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/kilfcampaign/1899887856993331/

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I make no secret of the fact that I, in general, despise bus travel, though getting to be on the upper deck while subject to the, ah, lively driving habits of Southern Vectis does have a certain charm. Being stuck in traffic from Ryde to Newport, however, is not, especially around the entrance to Newport bus station. I am one of those people that won't take a bus unless I absolutely have to (so, for anywhere not on the east coast) and would not accept any talk that involves replacement of a rail line with any kind of bus. Gosport being a prime example that makes me seethe.

You are not alone in your views about buses as others on this thread seem to share your opinion.

Howsoever, if you look at the areas covered by the Island Line, against the whole settlement areas of the Isle of Wight that are served by bus services, you must agree that Southern Vectis do serve a much more widespread area.

 

[Dougal2345]

You are not alone in your views about buses as others on this thread seem to share your opinion.

I think a sizable chunk of the population do... I've said this before, but I don't think a large proportion of passengers cheer when they hear the phrase "Rail Replacement Bus"

Howsoever, if you look at the areas covered by the Island Line, against the whole settlement areas of the Isle of Wight that are served by bus services, you must agree that Southern Vectis do serve a much more widespread area.

Very true, but what point are you making? I'd say this was a bad situation for the Island, just as it's a bad situation for areas of the mainland where it applies.

On a lighter note, comedian Mark Steel, on Radio 4's "Mark Steel's In Town" this week, recorded in Ventnor, had a few comments about our beloved Island Line

 

[Chris M]

I'd be looking at using DLR stock, new or used and convert to ATO, yes it'll cost a fair amount to make it happen, but you'll save on staffing cost, only needing one member of staff per train and it would secure the future for another 20 years at least...

DLR stock has been discussed repeatedly on this thread and is not suitable for several reasons (too long, too tall, too square, too high floor, wrong sort of electrification...). There would also be the costs of installing the ATO equipment lineside and in the control room (which will need upgrading, and more staff), programming the ATO, etc. All told this will be very significantly more than the savings in on-board staff.

 

[Olaf]

Rest assured it was debated at some length back in early November

Some are clearly not aware of that.

 

[Olaf]

Howsoever, if you look at the areas covered by the Island Line, against the whole settlement areas of the Isle of Wight that are served by bus services, you must agree that Southern Vectis do serve a much more widespread area.

A factor in this is the state of majority of the roads on the Island - main roads are not up to standard and could do with upgrades.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A factor in this is the state of majority of the roads on the Island - main roads are not up to standard and could do with upgrades.

That is something that covers all modes of road-based transport and not just public transport.

 

[Olaf]

That is something that covers all modes of road-based transport and not just public transport.

Correct.

 

[Chris125]

DLR stock has been discussed repeatedly on this thread and is not suitable for several reasons (too long, too tall, too square, too high floor, wrong sort of electrification...).

If D78s will (or can be made to) fit - which Vivarail seem to believe - then I don't see why DLR dimensions would be a problem, especially with vehicle bodies only around 14m long.

Former DLR vehicles sold to Germany have been converted to manual operation, and given pantographs too - a lot more challenging than moving from bottom to top contact 3rd rail I'd have thought.

The more fundamental issues are surely condition and design - I doubt they have enough years left in them to justify the work, and a light rail/tram design surely requires significantly better track maintained to a much higher standard.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

An add on to a any new Tyne and Wear Metro build might do the trick (assuming of course that the answer is to retain a railway at all)

 

[philthetube]

If D78s will (or can be made to) fit - which Vivarail seem to believe - then I don't see why DLR dimensions would be a problem, especially with vehicle bodies only around 14m long.

Former DLR vehicles sold to Germany have been converted to manual operation, and given pantographs too - a lot more challenging than moving from bottom to top contact 3rd rail I'd have thought.

The more fundamental issues are surely condition and design - I doubt they have enough years left in them to justify the work, and a light rail/tram design surely requires significantly better track maintained to a much higher standard.

As appears about every 5 pages on this thread D78s won't fit either, they would need to get on their knees to fit through the tunnel.

 

[Non Multi]

Please don't take this post seriously -

Several coupled up draisines, that's my solution for the Island Line...

 

[Olaf]

Please don't take this post seriously -

Several coupled up draisines, that's my solution for the Island Line...

With added wifi plus wheelchair access that would do nicely.

 

[Chris M]

Repeated from page 2:

                             Height    Length    Width       Floor height
1938 stock DM           2.883 m  15.94 m    2.597 m    0.6 m
D stock DM               3.740 m  14.94 m    3.740 m   0.975 m
DLR B90/B92/B2K stock    3.51 m   28.8 m      2.65 m    1.03 m

 

[Bletchleyite]

As appears about every 5 pages on this thread D78s won't fit either, they would need to get on their knees to fit through the tunnel.

Unless you lower the trackbed back to its original level, and provide some other means of reducing flooding e.g. pumps. It used to use full size stock.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Unless you lower the trackbed back to its original level, and provide some other means of reducing flooding e.g. pumps. It used to use full size stock.

A very good point and well made.

The DC line has a fairly dodgy bit of tunnel around Harlesden - but in built pumps has pretty well maintained the service for many years , bar the odd catastrophic weather event - usually restored in a couple of hours...

 

[Stroud Valleys]

It's not until you see the different types of tube stock next to each other until you get to see the scale of the problem.

The issue is that we know the island line can accommodate trains like on the right, but due to updates over the years, only trains on the left can be accommodated.

Question for SWT and DfT is whether they are looking long term or short term.

 

[ainsworth74]

Unless you lower the trackbed back to its original level, and provide some other means of reducing flooding e.g. pumps. It used to use full size stock.

I still wonder about boring out the the two tunnel ends into one bore and then slewing the track into the middle of the tunnel (as can be seen from a video posted earlier most of the tunnel is a single bore)?

 

[HSTEd]

Unless you want to build a fixed crossing the cheapest solution is probably the onet hat will get adopted.

And pretty sure some repurpose tram-style substation gear and such will be the cheapest option to keep the whole thing going.
New stock is right out.

 

[xc170]

With the amount of tax payer money the DFT/NR throw away each year and how many billions is going to be spent on HS2, I can't see how anyone can justify not spending a few quid on sorting Ryde tunne out and strengthening Ryde pier and bring over some 319's(Or whatever other 3rd rail stock is available)...

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not until you see the different types of tube stock next to each other until you get to see the scale of the problem.

If you look at a photo of the tunnel, you can see that it's not as big a problem as you're saying it is

Photo of Tube stock in Ryde tunnel

By the way your photo shows A-stock, not D-stock. A-stock is bigger still - much bigger than even regular mainline UK stock like 319s.

 

[trash80]

Doesn't the tunnel have reduced clearance half way?

With the amount of tax payer money the DFT/NR throw away each year and how many billions is going to be spent on HS2, I can't see how anyone can justify not spending a few quid on sorting Ryde tunne out and strengthening Ryde pier and bring over some 319's(Or whatever other 3rd rail stock is available)...

Yes i've said this before, upgrading the Island Line and making it sustainable for decades would be comparative pocket change.