Isle of Man buses and coaches.

[Tetchytyke]

The SMN range is also quite some time away from release, given we're currently at NMN.

My two cars have just been registered here with PMN, but that still leaves SMN a while off yet.

My SMN suggestion would be a fleet number as well as a registration.

For what purpose or benefit? Fleet numbers already reflect the reg no, but even if they didn't, so what? It's an internal identifier for the company, nothing more!

For a while Tours IOM and Battersbys (of Morecambe) shared ownership and it wasn't unknown for Battersbys vehicles to be used on the island for excursions and private hire work, still retaining UK registrations

The registration laws are a bit vague here, it boils down to whether it's a temporary or permanent import. But if you're using it on revenue work here, it gets harder to justify keeping it on UK plates.

It still doesn't solve the cost question. Boats just before and after TT are very very lucrative for the Steam Packet.

 

[upasalmon]

My two cars have just been registered here with PMN, but that still leaves SMN a while off yet.



For what purpose or benefit? Fleet numbers already reflect the reg no, but even if they didn't, so what? It's an internal identifier for the company, nothing more!



The registration laws are a bit vague here, it boils down to whether it's a temporary or permanent import. But if you're using it on revenue work here, it gets harder to justify keeping it on UK plates.

It still doesn't solve the cost question. Boats just before and after TT are very very lucrative for the Steam Packet.

The logic behind SMN numbers is they would be EXCLUSIVE to Bus Vannin and IOM Transport. The SMN series would not be issued with a suffix letter as the IOM doesn't use age identifiers. In an island situation we are talking about the reg/fleet number being the same. The SMN number would be surrendered upon sale and recycled.
The IOM has never used S in the same way the GB mainland didn't use U. In the 1950s RMN was followed by TMN.
Changing the subject I was shocked to discover Tours Isle Of Man is down to a dozen vehicles and they are the only coach firm left on the island . On family holidays in the 1970s petrol engines Bedford SB3 and VAM3 were common, as was the odd OB. The 1973 oil price hike badly hit all aspects of Manx life and diesel Bedfords took over. Of course the decline in tourists has taken its toll.

 

[507021]

The logic behind SMN numbers is they would be EXCLUSIVE to Bus Vannin and IOM Transport. The SMN series would not be issued with a suffix letter as the IOM doesn't use age identifiers. In an island situation we are talking about the reg/fleet number being the same. The SMN number would be surrendered upon sale and recycled.
The IOM has never used S in the same way the GB mainland didn't use U. In the 1950s RMN was followed by TMN.
Changing the subject I was shocked to discover Tours Isle Of Man is down to a dozen vehicles and they are the only coach firm left on the island . On family holidays in the 1970s petrol engines Bedford SB3 and VAM3 were common, as was the odd OB. The 1973 oil price hike badly hit all aspects of Manx life and diesel Bedfords took over. Of course the decline in tourists has taken its toll.

Along with I, Q and Z, the letter S is not valid on Isle of Man registration plates. "SMN" will never be issued, and I really don't see the point in having an entire registration series allocated exclusively to buses.

 

[507021]

Details of the new stock due or in the process of arriving here.

265 PMN-265-D.
266 PMN-266-D.
267 PMN-267-D.
268 PMN-268-D.
269 PMN-269-D.
270 PMN-270-D.

301 PMN-301-E.
302 PMN-302-E.
303 PMN-303-E.
304 PMN-304-E.
305 PMN-305-E.
306 PMN-306-E.
307 PMN-307-E.
308 PMN-308-E.
309 PMN-309-E.
310 PMN-310-E.

265-270, the fleet's first hybrid buses, are replacing an unknown quantity of older Citaros, but believed to be at least 204-209. 301-310 are replacing 160/162-170, 160 has already left the fleet for its new life in Bournemouth.

 

[upasalmon]

Along with I, Q and Z, the letter S is not valid on Isle of Man registration plates. "SMN" will never be issued, and I really don't see the point in having an entire registration series allocated exclusively to buses.

The SMN idea is no different to the"111" plates used by Tours IOM, or the 999 plates issued to fire appliances. Its something that would apply in an island situation. There has never been a year identifier used on the IOM, or the Channel Islands. I would not advocate a special registration series for the UK mainland although some called for one in the 1980s. I think fire, ambulance, coastguard and MARKED police vehicles should all have 999 plates, if they don't already. Again there is no age identifier on the IOM , Ulster and Channel Isles.

 

[507021]

The SMN idea is no different to the"111" plates used by Tours IOM, or the 999 plates issued to fire appliances. Its something that would apply in an island situation. There has never been a year identifier used on the IOM, or the Channel Islands. I would not advocate a special registration series for the UK mainland although some called for one in the 1980s. I think fire, ambulance, coastguard and MARKED police vehicles should all have 999 plates, if they don't already. Again there is no age identifier on the IOM , Ulster and Channel Isles.

It is incorrect to suggest the "111" and "999" combinations are exclusively issued to Tours Isle of Man and the Isle of Man Fire & Rescue service respectively. Anyone, providing it is available, may purchase a registration number (on any of the MN, MAN or xMN systems) with either of those number combinations if they wish.

Just because there's no age identifier on the island doesn't mean vehicles operated by Bus Vannin, Tours Isle of Man and the emergency services should each have their own vehicle registration series. It's a ridiculous and pointless exercise, and a waste of money as registration plates considered as "cherished" require the owner to pay an annual retention fee or it is automatically surrendered and returned to the system for resale. I'm sure the Manx taxpayer would be absolutely delighted their money is being wasted on pointless and expensive registration plates for buses and emergency services vehicles.

 

[upasalmon]

It is incorrect to suggest the "111" and "999" combinations are exclusively issued to Tours Isle of Man and the Isle of Man Fire & Rescue service respectively. Anyone, providing it is available, may purchase a registration number (on any of the MN, MAN or xMN systems) with either of those number combinations if they wish.

Just because there's no age identifier on the island doesn't mean vehicles operated by Bus Vannin, Tours Isle of Man and the emergency services should each have their own vehicle registration series. It's a ridiculous and pointless exercise, and a waste of money as registration plates considered as "cherished" require the owner to pay an annual retention fee or it is automatically surrendered and returned to the system for resale. I'm sure the Manx taxpayer would be absolutely delighted their money is being wasted on pointless and expensive registration plates for buses and emergency services vehicles.

I accept that Tours IOM doesn't need ALL of the 111 combinations as there are only 12 vehicles in that fleet, just MAN/BMN to YMN 111 could be reserved. The only SMN cost would printing 2 each of SMN 1-299 and SMN 900-998. The existing plates could be reallocated to other vehicles. IOM Transport would keep and clean SMN plates for future use, for transfer to new buses
One possible reason SMN has never been issued is related to the word "semen". But the IOM issued CMN, which actually sounds like that word. Another is confusion with the figure 5, but then B looks like 8. So there you go.........

 

[GusB]

It has been explained adequately why certain number sequences aren't used in the Isle of Man. This particular discussion is drifting away from the main subject, and I suggest that we draw a line under it. Any further off-topic posts will be removed without further warning.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm sure the Manx taxpayer would be absolutely delighted their money is being wasted on pointless and expensive registration plates for buses and emergency services vehicles.

Isle of Man Transport costs us about £7m a year, I can safely say that cherished registrations are the least of our worries. The DoI need no invitation to waste money normally, as Douglas Promenade so brilliantly shows us

The registration process is hardly high-tech either: for both my cars (re-registered from the UK), the staff in the Post Office literally crossed off a registration number off a list on a sheet of MkI A4, handed me the tax disc, and sent me off to MotaWorld to get some plates made up. Clearly the DoI are just given a similar list of numbers for their buses and told to get on with it. Quite right too.

265-270, the fleet's first hybrid buses, are replacing an unknown quantity of older Citaros, but believed to be at least 204-209. 301-310 are replacing 160/162-170, 160 has already left the fleet for its new life in Bournemouth.

I'll just be happy if they can get shut of 225 and 226, with the low-backed seats.

Looking forward to seeing some of the new stuff out and about. Any idea when they will be out in revenue service?

In other news, Peel-Kirk Michael-Ramsey has reverted to hourly during the summer holidays. Every second hour it's operated by one of the ConnectVillages Sprinters. It was interesting seeing one disgorge people in Peel on Saturday afternoon The bus to Cregneash and The Sound is running Thursday-Sunday- the same as the steam railway- using one of the Sprinters too.

 

[507021]

Isle of Man Transport costs us about £7m a year, I can safely say that cherished registrations are the least of our worries. The DoI need no invitation to waste money normally, as Douglas Promenade so brilliantly shows us

The registration process is hardly high-tech either: for both my cars (re-registered from the UK), the staff in the Post Office literally crossed off a registration number off a list on a sheet of MkI A4, handed me the tax disc, and sent me off to MotaWorld to get some plates made up. Clearly the DoI are just given a similar list of numbers for their buses and told to get on with it. Quite right too.

As far as I'm aware, Isle of Man Transport owns six cherished registration marks. The four which currently in use are the MAN-H registrations allocated to 141-143 and MAN-93-F which is on a wagon used by the railways. T-10-MAN was last allocated to a Ford Transit tipper (railways), and MAN-46-F was last allocated to a Ford Focus shuttle car.

I'll just be happy if they can get shut of 225 and 226, with the low-backed seats.

Looking forward to seeing some of the new stuff out and about. Any idea when they will be out in revenue service?

In other news, Peel-Kirk Michael-Ramsey has reverted to hourly during the summer holidays. Every second hour it's operated by one of the ConnectVillages Sprinters. It was interesting seeing one disgorge people in Peel on Saturday afternoon The bus to Cregneash and The Sound is running Thursday-Sunday- the same as the steam railway- using one of the Sprinters too.

It's funny you say that, 225 was my favourite Citaro. They're both ex demonstrators, so unfortunately came with the "cheap seats" option rather than Bus Vannin's preferred seats which are much better. They were part of a planned order for six, but Bus Vannin bought 225/226 to reduce the cost. The rest of the order, 227-230, were offered as Euro VI models, but this option wasn't taken up.

I'd imagine the StreetDecks will be in service once PMN-E is issued, as they're the registrations which have been reserved for them. The Citaros (PMN-D) will probably be in service as soon as they're ready, particularly as type training won't be required on them.

 

[507021]

Deleted.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's funny you say that, 225 was my favourite Citaro. They're both ex demonstrators, so unfortunately came with the "cheap seats" option rather than Bus Vannin's preferred seats which are much better.

Yeah, I knew they were ex-demos. The low-backed seats would be fine if they were kept to Douglas town services, but obviously it's a common pool. I was glad to be off last weekend having gone Ramsey-Peel on one. I imagine they're different for drivers!

Not as bad as the Sprinters, though. Getting one from here to town on the 4 is quite enough, I pity anyone on one from Peel or Foxdale. In terms of capacity they're probably about right for the 4, mind.

far as I'm aware, Isle of Man Transport owns six cherished registration marks

It's relatively inexpensive to change cherished marks to a new vehicle, it's only £80, so it makes sense as otherwise they lose them.

A new cherished mark could cost up to £7500. And even if the DoI don't have to pay, that's still potential revenue lost.

 

[507021]

Yeah, I knew they were ex-demos. The low-backed seats would be fine if they were kept to Douglas town services, but obviously it's a common pool. I was glad to be off last weekend having gone Ramsey-Peel on one. I imagine they're different for drivers!

Not as bad as the Sprinters, though. Getting one from here to town on the 4 is quite enough, I pity anyone on one from Peel or Foxdale. In terms of capacity they're probably about right for the 4, mind.

When they first arrived, the "cheap seats" Citaros were nominally allocated to Douglas/Onchan routes for that reason. Ironically enough though, the very first trip 225 operated when it entered service was, wait for it, to Port Erin! Though from memory, I don't think it took a massive amount of time for the nominal allocations to go out of the window because it wasn't always easy to keep them on Douglas/Onchan diagrams all the time.

The Sprinters have their uses, but they're dreadful. Painfully slow, rubbish seats and poor ride quality all in one package! I was glad I very rarely had to drive the things.

---

More news from the island, 163 and 164 are now out of the fleet.

I'll try and find out where they're going. The former 160 is now with Yellow Buses of Bournemouth.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The new buses are all lined up along the fence at Banks Circus. The Citaros look to be plated up bug the Streetdecks aren't.

My photo this morning.

 

[507021]

The new buses are all lined up along the fence at Banks Circus. The Citaros look to be plated up bug the Streetdecks aren't.

My photo this morning.View attachment 82589View attachment 82589

I'm surprised they were delivered without registration plates, usually Wrightbus deliveries have arrived with them fitted but covered with a sticker matching the colour of the plate.

The fleet number decals look much smaller than usual as well.

---

According to my source, 162-165 have joined 160 at Yellow Buses. I understand 166-170 have passed to Ensign, but unsure on where 204-209 are going at the moment.

The StreetDecks and hybrid Citaros are due to enter service early next month.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The StreetDecks and hybrid Citaros are due to enter service early next month.

Makes sense, with the new timetable.

Speaking of, the current timetable ends on Sunday and there's no sight of the new one yet. Pushing traa-dy-liooar to the limits. They can't resist meddling with the Douglas town services, so I'm curious what they'll do this time.

 

[507021]

Makes sense, with the new timetable.

Speaking of, the current timetable ends on Sunday and there's no sight of the new one yet. Pushing traa-dy-liooar to the limits. They can't resist meddling with the Douglas town services, so I'm curious what they'll do this time.

I've been informed the new Citaros are due in service next week, the StreetDecks will follow on later.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I've been informed the new Citaros are due in service next week, the StreetDecks will follow on later.

Any news on the Streetdecks? BV seem a bit short on deckers at the moment (the 4B schools bus from here, booked a decker, has been 2xCitaro every day last week) but no sign of the Streetdecks. I've seen the Citaro hybrids out and about this week.

 

[507021]

Any news on the Streetdecks? BV seem a bit short on deckers at the moment (the 4B schools bus from here, booked a decker, has been 2xCitaro every day last week) but no sign of the Streetdecks. I've seen the Citaro hybrids out and about this week.

No change I'm afraid, they're still not registered.

It's all a bit bizarre really, I don't think there's ever been a gap of this length between stock leaving and their replacements entering service.

 

[upasalmon]

Has anyone got a recent fleet list for Tours Isle of Man? My list, from the Classic Manx Buses website is from 2018. It is sad they sold the Bedford OBs they had. If they were expensive to run one could have been given to the Jurby Transport Museum.

 

[507021]

Any news on the Streetdecks? BV seem a bit short on deckers at the moment (the 4B schools bus from here, booked a decker, has been 2xCitaro every day last week) but no sign of the Streetdecks. I've seen the Citaro hybrids out and about this week.

I've had an update about the StreetDecks today. Driver training has commenced, so expect to see them entering service fairly soon.

Has anyone got a recent fleet list for Tours Isle of Man? My list, from the Classic Manx Buses website is from 2018. It is sad they sold the Bedford OBs they had. If they were expensive to run one could have been given to the Jurby Transport Museum.

The Bedford OBs were worth far too much in resale value to just be given away to a museum. Besides, they weren't historically significant to the island.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I've had an update about the StreetDecks today. Driver training has commenced, so expect to see them entering service fairly soon.

Thanks. I was down on the steam trains today and noticed they now had number plates.

 

[upasalmon]

I have discovered that Tours Isle of Man has a fleet list, which is illustrated, but I cant magnify the pictures. The coaches are C70F (2 and 3) then 1, 4-7 (C49F) 31 (C31F midi-coach) 57 (C57F) and 13 seat Mercedes (14). Unfortunately its hard to tell which make the coaches are or their registrations, as the IOM uses the smaller font size of plates used in Ireland and other EU countries.

 

[GusB]

I have discovered that Tours Isle of Man has a fleet list, which is illustrated, but I cant magnify the pictures. The coaches are C70F (2 and 3) then 1, 4-7 (C49F) 31 (C31F midi-coach) 57 (C57F) and 13 seat Mercedes (14). Unfortunately its hard to tell which make the coaches are or their registrations, as the IOM uses the smaller font size of plates used in Ireland and other EU countries.

Could you post a link so we can have a look?

 

[upasalmon]

Could you post a link so we can have a look?

Sorry Gus I'm not much good at links, I suggest you visit the Tours Isle Of Man website.

 

[awsnews]

Sorry Gus I'm not much good at links, I suggest you visit the Tours Isle Of Man website.

Here

http://www.tours.co.im/Fleet

 

[upasalmon]

Here

http://www.tours.co.im/Fleet

Its the number of these (://) that throws me!

 

[MotCO]

Its the number of these (://) that throws me!

It is easy to copy and paste the link. Go to the URL (i.e. http://www.tours.co.im/Fleet), highlight the web address, then press 'Ctrl' and 'C' together, then paste in your Railforum text box by pressing 'Ctrl' and 'V' together. Hope this is not teaching you to suck eggs.

 

[duncombec]

You should be able to do some cross-referencing from here: https://www.classicbuses.co.uk/+Tours.html

At least coaches 3, 4, 5, 6, 14, 31, 57 seem to be accurate going by body types.

 

[upasalmon]

It is easy to copy and paste the link. Go to the URL (i.e. http://www.tours.co.im/Fleet), highlight the web address, then press 'Ctrl' and 'C' together, then paste in your Railforum text box by pressing 'Ctrl' and 'V' together. Hope this is not teaching you to suck eggs.

Unfortunately I use a smartphone so it has no equivalent of a Ctrl button