Jeremy Corbyn pledges rail renationalisation

[Carlisle]

Renationalisation of rail freight in the UK would mean the end for GBRf, DRS, .

DRS is already nationalised anyway , being part of the government owned Nuclear Decommissioning Agency

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Where does this myth about filthy trains come from - ? - probably the Daily Mail commentator from the Dordogne. (retired and on the Calvados from 1100 am) - I travel and have done so for 20+ years on Thameslink - and the trains are invariably decent inside and out (maybe a bit mucky in the freezing cold days in December when they cannot sensibly wash them without losing door operation in sub zero temperatures) - any "filth" is created by the 100K earners who leave their Yakult pots, free Metros and so on jammed down seat squabs - on a train that was "clean" 40 mins before. Maybe they expect personal butlers on board....rant over.

 

[Master29]

Trains were filthy, slow, late, stations were often disgusting and dangerous places especially at night and particularly in London.

Okay , what`s the difference between then and now.

 

[455driver]

Labour leader in 'saying anything to get elected' shock!

They said the same 15 Years ago and didn't do it when they got elected, I don't see it being any different this time round.

 

[Master29]

Granted someone pointed out Rail wasn`t the worse privatised industry but still a good case for re nationalisation and not just accepting Murdochite views. After all. France and Germany again spring to mind.

 

[Railsigns]

They said the same 15 Years ago and didn't do it when they got elected, I don't see it being any different this time round.

Fifteen years ago, the Labour Party was an imitation Tory Party.

This time, they really mean it.

 

[455driver]

Would even that be the case! By the end BR had at least four different passenger brands (InterCity, Network SouthEast, Regional Railways and Scotrail).

Which was a government requirement to get the railways ready for Privatisation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Fifteen years ago, the Labour Party was an imitation Tory Party.

This time, they really mean it.

I agree with your first part, I will reserve judgement on the second!

 

[ainsworth74]

Which was a government requirement to get the railways ready for Privatisation.

You're a decade out surely? Sectorisation was a BR driven enterprise from the early 1980s rather than a government requirement. Splitting the sectors into specific 'cost centres' in the early 90s was the move to prepare the organisation for privatisation by creating what would become the first generation of franchises.

 

[455driver]

You're a decade out surely? Sectorisation was a BR driven enterprise from the early 1980s rather than a government requirement. Splitting the sectors into specific 'cost centres' in the early 90s was the move to prepare the organisation for privatisation by creating what would become the first generation of franchises.

Um, I might be.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Okay , what`s the difference between then and now.

Just a bit -

 

[deltic]

Which was a government requirement to get the railways ready for Privatisation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I agree with your first part, I will reserve judgement on the second!

Sectorisation of the railways took place when no-one was considering privatisation.

Many would argue secotorisation was one of BR's greatest success

 

[yorksrob]

Personally, I'm luke warm on the subject of wholesale renationalisation as it seems unlikely that we will be able to recreate sectorised BR, which was the most logical way to run the railway. Plus, as the railway seems to be ticking along quite nicely, there are other things that probably require state intervention more urgently.

However, Mr Corbyn has a very important job cut out to strenuously oppose any sell-off of NR. This will be both in keeping with his political position and vital to the railway.

 

[TransportHub]

Where does this myth about filthy trains come from - ? - probably the Daily Mail commentator from the Dordogne. (retired and on the Calvados from 1100 am) - I travel and have done so for 20+ years on Thameslink - and the trains are invariably decent inside and out (maybe a bit mucky in the freezing cold days in December when they cannot sensibly wash them without losing door operation in sub zero temperatures) - any "filth" is created by the 100K earners who leave their Yakult pots, free Metros and so on jammed down seat squabs - on a train that was "clean" 40 mins before. Maybe they expect personal butlers on board....rant over.

I am with you on this. In the 18 years I have lived in London 9 times out of 10 the only filth on the train is the metro papers and rowdy teenagers!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Where does this myth about filthy trains come from - ? - probably the Daily Mail commentator from the Dordogne. (retired and on the Calvados from 1100 am) - I travel and have done so for 20+ years on Thameslink - and the trains are invariably decent inside and out (maybe a bit mucky in the freezing cold days in December when they cannot sensibly wash them without losing door operation in sub zero temperatures) - any "filth" is created by the 100K earners who leave their Yakult pots, free Metros and so on jammed down seat squabs - on a train that was "clean" 40 mins before. Maybe they expect personal butlers on board....rant over.

In the 1950's, not so many years following on from the 1948 Nationalisation, I regularly used the non-corridor 3rd class compartment stock with what seemed like horsehair stuffed 6-a-side seating on local services from Manchester Victoria which were always stabled on the Red Bank carriage sidings. All you needed to do to see how seat matters were was by giving a hefty "thwack" to the seating then to step backwards and watch the dust cloud eminate from the seating. The leather door window straps all looked like they had seen very many years service.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Can't be done, as the EU wants every nation it reins over to encourage competition on the railways. To renationalise we would have to pull out of the EU.

 

[Argosy]

Justine Greening was on Andrew Marr show and she just spouted the same old 'We have record amounts of investment in the railways ... economic security... family security' It is all off a buzz phrase tick list

Marr failed to press the obvious that the company carrying out all the record investment is already nationalised and it is the train operations Corbyn is referring to!

Can you honestly believe that we would have had the levels of rolling stock investment and service investment under a nationalised BR?

When the crash came, funding would have stopped and when Con/Lib took over Uncle George would have weighed in big time. I am totally convinced that the system established with all its faults has actually safeguarded the current situation.

I can see some merit in having social enterprise toc's but without the profit motive I am not sure where the incentive will come from under Corbyn Rail.

Also what happen's to the foc's, charter train companies and open access operators.

 

[CdBrux]

Pr
so why is the government spending £4bn a year subsidising the rail system? Presumably so it runs all the services that patently obviously will never make money.

How much of this could be ascribed to 'correcting the underinvestments of the last several decades'?

 

[deltic]

Can't be done, as the EU wants every nation it reins over to encourage competition on the railways. To renationalise we would have to pull out of the EU.

It depends what is meant by nationalisation - under the fourth railway directive - the proposal is that where the state operates rail services these should be tendered as TfL does for buses, DLR and London Rail. State owned companies would be able to bid for these concessions.

 

[Railsigns]

Can't be done, as the EU wants every nation it reins over to encourage competition on the railways. To renationalise we would have to pull out of the EU.

Not actually true. As long as open access operators aren't excluded, the EU has no cause for complaint.

 

[HH]

No doubt there's a few of us who've seen all sides of the railway, both under public and private ownership. IMO there's good and bad bits on both sides.

Network Rail's current problems are a great example of what can go wrong with publicly owned companies. But then Railtrack was a great example what can go wrong with privately owned ones.

Essentially there's no silver bullet. The railways will never run perfectly. They didn't under BR, despite the presence of various rose-tinted spectacles. They don't now. They won't in the future.

However, what I would say is that the more civil servants interfere, the worse things get. Everything points to that going only one way, whatever happens over privatisation/nationalisation...

 

[Andrewlong]

So tell me what has changed since 1994?

Trains are still filthy,

Station still are often disgusting and dangerous places and violence has spread onto trains especially on DOO operated services in and around

The only thing ive seen change over the years is the amount of waste on livery, after livery being applied and then changed at a whim.


Granted we have got more and more new rolling stock, but most of it is not comfortable, seat are often hard as a brick, if its a diesel unit power comes from every carriage so the din and vibration is felt throughout the whole train, fresh air is a premium because trains have air condition / climate control and when this stops working its unbearable, modern trains also have infuriating and often inaudible / too loud pre recorded announcements.

BR spend a fair amount of dosh on the NSE rebounding in the 1980s including signage, red lamp posts, and signage on both locos and carriages. The HST fleet went from Blue and yellow to yellow and silver. The biggest difference I have noticed is that FGW and SWT trains are really clean nowadays exterior wise whereas 30 years ago they were often dirty and oily!

 

[matt_world2004]

BR spend a fair amount of dosh on the NSE rebounding in the 1980s including signage, red lamp posts, and signage on both locos and carriages. The HST fleet went from Blue and yellow to yellow and silver. The biggest difference I have noticed is that FGW and SWT trains are really clean nowadays exterior wise whereas 30 years ago they were often dirty and oily!

they are still running the same trains despite it beong 19 years since privatisation and the trains were showing their age then.

 

[Bletchleyite]

they are still running the same trains despite it beong 19 years since privatisation and the trains were showing their age then.

Who are still running the same trains? SWT mostly are not. fGW are, of course, but won't be soon. And there has been an almost complete fleet replacement on Southern and Southeastern.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Can't be done, as the EU wants every nation it reins over to encourage competition on the railways. To renationalise we would have to pull out of the EU.

Not true.
All the EU stipulates is that infrastructure must be separate from operations (as it is in other transport modes), and that open access must be allowed.
And all UK governments have signed up to the various transport "packages".
The EU is not imposing anything we haven't agreed to.

 

[satisnek]

From the BBC News article now updated:

But the Conservatives dismissed the plan as an "ideological joyride".

Erm, so what, exactly, was the 1993 Railways Act?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

BR spend a fair amount of dosh on the NSE rebounding in the 1980s including signage, red lamp posts, and signage on both locos and carriages.

In what respect do you intend the word "rebounding" as stated in your posting above to convey?

 

[Railsigns]

In what respect do you intend the word "rebounding" as stated in your posting above to convey?

Auto-correct's attempt at correcting a mistyped 'rebranding', I'd assume.

 

[jimm]

they are still running the same trains despite it beong 19 years since privatisation and the trains were showing their age then.

Which trains? BR had seen an influx of all sorts of new dmu and emu stock in the decade prior to privatisation, in the South East and elsewhere. Railway stock is usually expected to clock up a 30-year lifespan, so they were hardly 'showing their age' when BR was broken up. If DFT hadn't made such a mess of replacing HSTs, they would have been pensioned off several years ago.

 

[RichmondCommu]

A few weeks ago, people were saying he stood no chance of becoming Labour leader.

And sadly he has

 

[455driver]

And sadly he has

Give the bloke a chance, he might surprise us all!