Jeremy Corbyn & Tom Watson elected leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party

[me123]

Can't we just save all this trouble and make Vindaloo the national anthem? It's quite uplifting and seems capture a certain spirit of the country

And as an added bonus, you don't need to be able to sing very well to make a good go of it (though I'd love to see John Redwood trying)

Plus, a national anthem about an Indian curry has the added benefits of winding up those on the Right

 

[Johnuk123]

 

[Dave1987]

Would love it if Corbyn refuses to join the Privy Council or refuses to kneel to the Queen. Would really show that the status quo has ended. If people want to talk about history why not talk about the British Empire where Monarchs considered themselves above the law and would persecute anyone who disagreed with them. This is the present and maybe we should start bringing parliament and the Monarchy into it!

 

[ExRes]

If we're looking for a revised anthem designed specifically for the new England/Scotland/Wales/N Ireland/UK/EU District*, then surely a poll held in Calais would be the order of the day

* Delete as applicable

 

[Senex]

Then of course you have some Scottish / Welsh people who refuse to sing it when used in the context of the British national anthem because it is also the English national anthem.

Its origins as a "national" anthem seem to go back to the 1740s, so well after the Act of Union. It's certainly no English national anthem that has been foisted on to the other members of the Union. Now that the Welsh and the Scots have made the English feel a little more self-confident about their own nationality there's a real need for something for the English to stand alongside "Land of my Fathers" and "Flower of Scotland". If we want a good tune, then Parry's "Jerusalem" is fine -- though we'd really have to do like the East Germans and use an anthem without any words, the words having become for some people somewhat questionable (I'm referring to "Auferstanden aus Ruinen / und der Zukunft zugewandt etc).

 

[Greenback]

Regardless of when the anthem was written, music or lyrics, it was written for a specifc reason that no longer exists. It was to show support for the monarch during a difficult time for the state, with rebellion and dissent everywhere.

It is out of date now, and it needs to be replaced. At the same time, England needs it's own anthem to distinguish itself from any British one, just as the other constituent nations have.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Regardless of when the anthem was written, music or lyrics, it was written for a specifc reason that no longer exists. It was to show support for the monarch during a difficult time for the state, with rebellion and dissent everywhere.

It is out of date now, and it needs to be replaced. At the same time, England needs it's own anthem to distinguish itself from any British one, just as the other constituent nations have.

I wonder when (if ever) the last time was when the matter of changing the British National Anthem was officially raised in the Houses of Parliament.
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Can't we just save all this trouble and make Vindaloo the national anthem? It's quite uplifting and seems capture a certain spirit of the country

If it is not enough that a city in Israel has been discussed as the name for a new British National Anthem, we now have an item of cuisine from what was a noted recipe in Goa (once part of Portuguese India) being suggested.

Can you imagine if Southern Sudan, one of the last new countries, chose "Boiled Beef and Carrots" as their new national anthem....:roll:

 

[DarloRich]

Anyway - not much talk about Tom Watson being the deputy leader. I quite like him tbh!

 

[radamfi]

just as the other constituent nations have.

Northern Ireland also use God Save the Queen before international football matches! Do they play it twice when England plays Northern Ireland?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Northern Ireland also use God Save the Queen before international football matches! Do they play it twice when England plays Northern Ireland?

Noting that a large percentage of the population there think "The future's bright, the future's Orange" they appear to have the choice of two national anthems...the other one being that of the Netherlands...:roll:
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Watching the Six Nations, when England play Wales (particularly at the Millenium Stadium), we see Wales sing 'Land of my Fathers (Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau) and in comparison, God Save The Queen is...a bit rubbish. The tune is just a grim durge. It's neither enthusiastic nor uplifting.

Looking at another European monarchy with a very sombre musical score, you need to listen to the National Anthem of the Netherlands. I think that must be in the running to be one of the oldest of the National Anthems.

Even better, listen to it when the English translation of the lyrics are shown on the screen then you will see that we are not the only country that makes reference to events from long ago. The one from the Netherlands makes such as a reference to the King of Spain when Spain ruled over the Low Countries.

P.S....It is dirge...not durge.
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I think that there should be a competition and a public vote, preferably on ITV1 to decide what the new anthem should be. There should be some celebrity judges to help guide the public with their votes. My suggestions would be Virginia Wade, Patti Boulaye, Darius, the bloke who used to play Reg Holdsworth in Corrie, Tom Daley, and Eliza Doolittle.

Shades of "Fanfare for the Common Man" by Aaron Copeland sprang to mind when I read of the ITV involvement mentioned in your posting...with the emphasis on the word "common"...

I have yet to hear a more stirring tune in a National Anthem than the one of Brazil. You can even pretend to be an opera singer whilst singing it.
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Anyway - not much talk about Tom Watson being the deputy leader. I quite like him tbh!

I was really surprised to see such a well-known professional golfer taking over that role. He was always interesting to watch on the PGA tour and played in four of the Ryder Cup matches...

 

[Hornet]

Northern Ireland also use God Save the Queen before international football matches! Do they play it twice when England plays Northern Ireland?

There are two anthems played for the Irish Rugby team. One is Amhrán na bhFiann and the other is Ireland's Call. Both anthems are played before any International played in the ROI. Only Ireland's Call is played when Ireland plays outside the ROI. Ireland's Call is in effect the all Ireland anthem. In years gone by GSTQ was played when the Irish Rugby team played any Internationals in Belfast. Not now, as Ireland's Call would now be the only anthem played for the Irish team if the play in Ravenhill.

Regards the lack of talk about Tom Watson. He is someone who could well be biding his time, waiting to see if Jezzer starts introducing policies that are election losers. He has already indicated that he is pro NATO, which might sit uncomfortably with his boss.

 

[southern442]

My opinion is that, rather than a pair of dinosaurs, it is just Corbyn that's trouble.

Yvette Cooper, despite being rather right-wing, would have been more effective as leader, even with the 'wife of Balls' image. Corbyn is too 'nice', and he's only ever been a constituency MP. He'll do nothing at all to help the north such as building HS3.

As much as I like Corbyn, and I am glad to finally see an honest senior politician, I agree with your point about HS3. I am massively opposed to HS2 but I think that HS3 is a good idea. Unfortunately most politicians that are opposed to HS2 are also not too keen on HS3 either.

 

[Senex]

Anyway - not much talk about Tom Watson being the deputy leader. I quite like him tbh!

I quite liked him until the Greville Janner business blew up, but I then found it (probably predictably) depressing that the man who had had so much to say about certain Tory politicians was so very quiet about one from his own side.

 

[backontrack]

UKoGBaNI is cool...

 

[yorksrob]

Although of course 'Jerusalem' in Blake's poem is actually a reference to building the kingdom or city of God in England.



If this the reason why people prefer not to sing the national anthem? I know plenty of hardened left-wingers who sing it with gusto. I also know a fair few on the right who refuse to sing it because they simply don't believe in God or don't like the queen or don't like the tune or find the whole idea of nationhood in a free market economy to be ridiculous. It would seem to me that a person's political leaning is not the cause for their observance of the national anthem

Now there's a philosophy I find far more frightening and extremist than anything uttered by Jeremy Corbyn !

Really though, the business about singing the national anthem and bending the knee is a bit of a distraction from real politics at the moment. The type that affects peoples lives.

 

[Greenback]

I very much agree with your last sentence yorksrob! I caught the end of Question Time last night and thought it rather poor that there was a fair bit of comment that Corbyn has a responsibility to sing along with the anthem as leader of a political party.

My brother was an officer in the Royal Navy for six years and he said that while they stood to attention when GSTQ was played they would not, under any circumstances sing the words.

 

[crehld]

I very much agree with your last sentence yorksrob! I caught the end of Question Time last night and thought it rather poor that there was a fair bit of comment that Corbyn has a responsibility to sing along with the anthem as leader of a political party.

My brother was an officer in the Royal Navy for six years and he said that while they stood to attention when GSTQ was played they would not, under any circumstances sing the words.

Do you know I was just about to post the same thing! I met a mate for a drink last night who used to be a warrant officer in the navy. He likewise confirmed it is a big no no to sing the national anthem when being played and you're at attention. He wants to know if by not singing the anthem he has been disrespectful to queen and country and insulted the memory and sacrifice of several friends he lost during the Falklands War?

 

[Busaholic]

I'm not (quite) the oldest person on this forum, and it doesn't make my opinions any more correct, but I do have some personal memories of the National Anthem over the last few decades.
Back in the 1960s and well into the 70s the music of the National Anthem was played at the end of the final movie of the day at each cinema screening. No-one was expected to sing the words, but the general expectation had been that cinemagoers would rise from their seats and stand still. Greadually during this period, and probably more in cities than in rural areas, people either remained seated or rushed for the exit, possibly provoking outrage from the traditionalists, so the Anthem was phased out in most (all?) places.

I would suggest not singing the N.A. is a bit like, at a church funeral, some of the congregation either not singing the hymns, or just pretending to sing, and ditto the Lord's Prayer: one is not there to draw attention to one's self, so you go with the flow for the sake of those for whom these things are important.

The Tory MP John Redwood drew howls of disapprobation when, as Welsh Secretary (a satirical appointment if ever there was one) he obviously had not the faintest idea of the words of the anthem in Welsh - he would have been well advised to keep his mouth shut!

Finally, my history teacher (who described himself as a Disraelian Tory) was very fond of quoting the Whig Samuel Johnson that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Robert Maxwell was very fond of the Union Jack and was one of the people behind the 'I'm Backing Britain' campaign and what a scoundrel he turned out to be!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I very much agree with your last sentence yorksrob! I caught the end of Question Time last night and thought it rather poor that there was a fair bit of comment that Corbyn has a responsibility to sing along with the anthem as leader of a political party.

My brother was an officer in the Royal Navy for six years and he said that while they stood to attention when GSTQ was played they would not, under any circumstances sing the words.

I really don't think that you can make a comparison between members of the Armed Forces whilst stood to attention and the leader of one of the British political parties.

 

[yorksrob]

Robert Maxwell was very fond of the Union Jack and was one of the people behind the 'I'm Backing Britain' campaign and what a scoundrel he turned out to be!

To be fair, so did Sir Bruce Forsyth (he even performed on a novelty pop record to that effect) and he's done nothing more scurrilous than providing quality entertainment to the masses for decades.

 

[deltic]

I'm not (quite) the oldest person on this forum, and it doesn't make my opinions any more correct, but I do have some personal memories of the National Anthem over the last few decades.
Back in the 1960s and well into the 70s the music of the National Anthem was played at the end of the final movie of the day at each cinema screening. No-one was expected to sing the words, but the general expectation had been that cinemagoers would rise from their seats and stand still. Greadually during this period, and probably more in cities than in rural areas, people either remained seated or rushed for the exit, possibly provoking outrage from the traditionalists, so the Anthem was phased out in most (all?) places.

I would suggest not singing the N.A. is a bit like, at a church funeral, some of the congregation either not singing the hymns, or just pretending to sing, and ditto the Lord's Prayer: one is not there to draw attention to one's self, so you go with the flow for the sake of those for whom these things are important.

The Tory MP John Redwood drew howls of disapprobation when, as Welsh Secretary (a satirical appointment if ever there was one) he obviously had not the faintest idea of the words of the anthem in Welsh - he would have been well advised to keep his mouth shut!

Finally, my history teacher (who described himself as a Disraelian Tory) was very fond of quoting the Whig Samuel Johnson that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Robert Maxwell was very fond of the Union Jack and was one of the people behind the 'I'm Backing Britain' campaign and what a scoundrel he turned out to be!

My mother used to tell me in the 1930s everyone made a rush to the exits before the national anthem played in cinemas - especially the teenagers!

 

[Butts]

I'm not (quite) the oldest person on this forum, and it doesn't make my opinions any more correct, but I do have some personal memories of the National Anthem over the last few decades.
Back in the 1960s and well into the 70s the music of the National Anthem was played at the end of the final movie of the day at each cinema screening. No-one was expected to sing the words, but the general expectation had been that cinemagoers would rise from their seats and stand still. Greadually during this period, and probably more in cities than in rural areas, people either remained seated or rushed for the exit, possibly provoking outrage from the traditionalists, so the Anthem was phased out in most (all?) places.

I would suggest not singing the N.A. is a bit like, at a church funeral, some of the congregation either not singing the hymns, or just pretending to sing, and ditto the Lord's Prayer: one is not there to draw attention to one's self, so you go with the flow for the sake of those for whom these things are important.

The Tory MP John Redwood drew howls of disapprobation when, as Welsh Secretary (a satirical appointment if ever there was one) he obviously had not the faintest idea of the words of the anthem in Welsh - he would have been well advised to keep his mouth shut!

Finally, my history teacher (who described himself as a Disraelian Tory) was very fond of quoting the Whig Samuel Johnson that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Robert Maxwell was very fond of the Union Jack and was one of the people behind the 'I'm Backing Britain' campaign and what a scoundrel he turned out to be!

I can remember when they used to play The National Anthem at the end of the Nights Programs on BBC 1.

Not sure if ITV did as well - possibly ?

 

[yorksrob]

They still do at the close of Radio 4.

 

[DarloRich]

I really don't think that you can make a comparison between members of the Armed Forces whilst stood to attention and the leader of one of the British political parties.

why not - the leader of the opposition has been compared to all sorts by thoroughly decent Tory types and their chums in the media

 

[fowler9]

I'm surprised there are no stories about Corbyn eating children being passed around when the Conservatives are planning to cut free school meals whilst cutting in work benefits to the parents.

 

[Hornet]

My mother used to tell me in the 1930s everyone made a rush to the exits before the national anthem played in cinemas - especially the teenagers!

I don't stand for GSTQ, primarily because I do not feel it represents me and my country. My personal preference is 'Jerusalem', as England is mentioned, is is the nod to our Industrial Heritage. One of the strangest moments I had with an anthem was the mid '80's. I was on my first night out with my, now partner and her friend in the Wexford Inn, Dublin. The Wolfe Tones were playing (Google them). At the end of the night, an unbeknown to me, they started to play the Irish national anthem. Everyone to a man, (and woman) stood up, bar one. Me. It was the weirdest sensation to be dragged up by my partner and her friend, with the words "do you want to get out of here alive". It was common that the live bands in most of the Pubs in Dublin would end the night with the Anthem. My local now in South Dublin did for years. The first note was my cue to head for the loo!

 

[WestCoast]

An old languages teacher of mine, who didn't particularly like the British Monarchy, always used to sing Liechtenstein's national anthem when we used to have to sing it at school services.

"Oben am jungen Rhein" (high on the young River Rhine) always comes into my head when I hear God Save the Queen now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWmDbMbDZKk - listen and it will become clear.

 

[Greenback]

I really don't think that you can make a comparison between members of the Armed Forces whilst stood to attention and the leader of one of the British political parties.

I don't see why not. Much of the criticism has been about showing disrespect for the monarch and those in the services, so I think it's entirely fair to point out that serving members of the armed services must be showing disrespect to themselves and the Queen by not singing the words.

The facts are that there are many in society who don't sing the words of their national anthem but maintain a respectful silence instead. It's never been a problem before, but now, of course, the media are going to take every opportunity to try and ridicule Corbyn, just like they do with every other Labour leader who is slightly to the left of Mrs Thatcher.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I don't see why not. Much of the criticism has been about showing disrespect for the monarch and those in the services, so I think it's entirely fair to point out that serving members of the armed services must be showing disrespect to themselves and the Queen by not singing the words.

The facts are that there are many in society who don't sing the words of their national anthem but maintain a respectful silence instead. It's never been a problem before, but now, of course, the media are going to take every opportunity to try and ridicule Corbyn, just like they do with every other Labour leader who is slightly to the left of Mrs Thatcher.

Couldn't have said that better myself. Totally agree!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

My personal preference is 'Jerusalem', as England is mentioned, is is the nod to our Industrial Heritage.

If Jerusalam was built in England's green and pleasant land, whereabouts would they build it...Golders Green, Cheetham Hill, etc? Will we then all be forced to wear yarmulkes and observe the kosher regulations?

Why not build Scunthorpe in Israel instead...
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It's depressing. We've probably got 5 years of this to come. I'm not sure what these right wing types are on but Corbyn doesn't strike me as a far left person. He's more an old fashioned Social Democrat and we need more of them.

I can remember another Social Democrat who once was a leading light in the Russian Socialist Democratic Labour Party who was not afraid of standing up to others in his party. He was Leon Trotsky.