Jeremy Corbyn's Traingate

[nidave]

There are two very distinct issues at play here.
1. CCTV footage shows there were spare seats and JC mislead the public by saying the train was "jam/ram packed"
2. Virgin released the CCTV

The two things are totally separate issues - if VT had not released the CCTV footage does not magically mean JC sat on the floor the whole trip or was not able to find a seat and that he walked passed empty seats to make his little film. That still happened, the fact the CCTV footage was released to the public is not relevant (but the catalyst) to the topic of JC.
What I mean by catalyst, is that it meant he was called out on his claim. The legalities of how they did it does not change that fact.

Edited for clarity

 

[miami]

What I mean by catalyst, is that it meant he was called out on his claim.

And that's good. But for those of us who aren't Labour members, and who are not going to vote Labour, it's irellevent.

What is very relevant to us is the fact Virgin seem to operate it's two companies (East Coast and West Coast -- the two that compete on the routes to scotland) as one.

I see the independent got everything wrong. Virgin Trains East Coast do not have a CCTV policy on their website, Virgin Trains (West Coast) do.

The legalities of how they did it does not change that fact.

But the actions of a TOC (legal or illegal, moral or immoral) are much more pertinent to the railway discussion than the political machinations of the westminster elite.

 

[nidave]

And that's good. But for those of us who aren't Labour members, and who are not going to vote Labour, it's irellevent.

What is very relevant to us is the fact Virgin seem to operate it's two companies (East Coast and West Coast -- the two that compete on the routes to scotland) as one.

I see the independent got everything wrong. Virgin Trains East Coast do not have a CCTV policy on their website, Virgin Trains (West Coast) do.



But the actions of a TOC (legal or illegal, moral or immoral) are much more pertinent to the railway discussion than the political machinations of the westminster elite.

I agree that the discussion about the release of the CCTV pics is important but separate to the argument. People are getting the two things intertwined when they are separate issues. I have seen many comments (on other sites and via FB) that JC was telling the truth because VT released the CCTV illegally.

I am a labour voter but if JC gets in I may have to seriously think about what I am going to do at the next election.

 

[highdyke]

“The point is that Mr Corbyn himself disclosed that he was on that train, published pictures of himself for publicity purposes and used them to make a political point. Virgin had a legitimate reason (so the argument would go) to respond. It is hard to see what damages Mr Corbyn could claim for in those circumstances.

The CCTV footage holds personal data of both Corbyn and members of the public if their faces are visible. As long as the latter did not have their data disclosed, Gardner says it looks like “a relatively minor breach of the DPA by Virgin – if it is a breach at all.

I would not expect a heavy fine to be meted out to them by the ICO,” he adds.

says Michael Gardner, a partner specialising in intellectual property and privacy at law firm Wedlake Bell

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/uk/virgin-trains-good-argument-releasing-cctv-jeremy-corbyn/?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The xenophobic Guardian

That's the first time I have seen the most liberal, global-minded and pro-EU paper described as "xenophobic".
That's an adjective I'd use for the Faragists and the Mail/Express owners.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

That's the first time I have seen the most liberal, global-minded and pro-EU paper described as "xenophobic".
That's an adjective I'd use for the Faragists and the Mail/Express owners.

I'd hate to say it but some of the pro EU lot are a bit dim, I had one uni student ask me when the referendum was as they wanted to vote in it - well thankfully they missed out by three weeks.

Corbyn himself, despite trying to win voters, probably did vote to leave the EU. I wonder how long it'll be before Brexit is blamed on Corbyn unable to find a seat.

Should Corbyn retain his leadership for Labour, then I might just vote for them.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Although on this occasion, the trains are being paid for by the government and not the greedy and evil banks.

Actually the (IEP) trains are initially being paid for by Hitachi (and its banks), and then paid back by TOCs under 27-year usage contracts negotiated by the government.
In the end the passenger will pay, of course.

 

[Robertj21a]

Should Corbyn retain his leadership for Labour, then I might just vote for them.

Excellent !! - at least that will make it much easier for the current government to remain in power through 2020 (and probably 2025)........ It's always helpful to know that it's going to stay the same party for the forseeable future.......

 

[EM2]

There are two very distinct issues at play here.
1. CCTV footage appears to show that there were spare seats and JC stated his opinion that the train was "jam/ram packed"

Fixed that for you.

 

[Harbornite]

Actually the (IEP) trains are initially being paid for by Hitachi (and its banks), and then paid back by TOCs under 27-year usage contracts negotiated by the government.
In the end the passenger will pay, of course.

Ah right, cheers.

 

[Trog]

Apparently as part of his commitment to poorer nations overseas Jeremy Corbyn was protesting about a lack of bus seats on the Caribbean island of Virgin Gorda, by laying down in the road. Where he was found by Sir Richard Branson, unlike the previous incident apparently it was his own past life that flashed video like through Sir Richards mind this time.

 

[HH]

Fixed that for you.

Not at all. JC did not say that it was his opinion that the train was ram-packed (a new word from Saint Jezza); he said it was. As for the video evidence that it wasn't, you seem to be like a flat-earther or one of those Christian fundamentalists who deny evolution. This is unsurprising, as Corbyn worshippers exhibit religious-like behaviour...

 

[yorksrob]

Hopefully this episode will prompt some public discourse on other issues with the VTEC franchise, such as the ever decreasing availability of reasonably priced advance fares on some routes and the gerrymandering of the off-peak period.

 

[Ianno87]

Not at all. JC did not say that it was his opinion that the train was ram-packed (a new word from Saint Jezza); he said it was. As for the video evidence that it wasn't, you seem to be like a flat-earther or one of those Christian fundamentalists who deny evolution. This is unsurprising, as Corbyn worshippers exhibit religious-like behaviour...

"Ram-Packed" (or whatever) means different things to different people, so I would argue to be an opinion.

I've heard people get on a Sprinter at Bolton to Manchester with a handful of spare seats moaning that they were being "packed in like sardines". Meanwhile I prersonally count the morning peak southbound Victoria Line at King's Cross as "Ram-packed" only if I cannot physically get on.

For the record, I have no afilliation whatsover to the Labour party.

 

[EM2]

Not at all. JC did not say that it was his opinion that the train was ram-packed (a new word from Saint Jezza); he said it was. As for the video evidence that it wasn't, you seem to be like a flat-earther or one of those Christian fundamentalists who deny evolution. This is unsurprising, as Corbyn worshippers exhibit religious-like behaviour...

Once again:
'Ram-packed' is subjective.
No seat has conclusively been shown to be empty.
I don't support Labour.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Once again:
'Ram-packed' is subjective.
No seat has conclusively been shown to be empty.
I don't support Labour.

Even Corbyn now admits that he was looking for two seats together not just single seats.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37173048

Ram-packed is subjective, yes. But saying "I am sitting on the floor because this train is ram-packed" implies that there are no free seats...

 

[EM2]

But saying "I am sitting on the floor because this train is ram-packed" implies that there are no free seats...

Which he didn't say.

“This is a problem that many passengers face every day, commuters and long-distance travellers. Today this train is completely ram-packed. The staff are absolutely brilliant, working really hard to help everybody.

“The reality is there are not enough trains, we need more of them – and they’re also incredibly expensive.”

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...oor-three-hour-train-journey-london-newcastle

 

[Harbornite]

Which he didn't say.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...oor-three-hour-train-journey-london-newcastle

Don't kid yourself, he said the train was completely ram packed, which most people would interpret as a complete lack of seats. This wasn't the case.

 

[najaB]

Don't kid yourself, he said the train was completely ram packed, which most people would interpret as a complete lack of seats. This wasn't the case.

He did what all politicians (and others) do - laid out the pieces and let us put them together. Both of his statements were true in isolation: "I'm sitting on the floor" was objectively true, and "This train is ram packed" is subjectively true.

We did the work for him and put the two together with the word he never used: 'because'.

 

[jon0844]

Even Corbyn now admits that he was looking for two seats together not just single seats.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37173048

Ram-packed is subjective, yes. But saying "I am sitting on the floor because this train is ram-packed" implies that there are no free seats...

It can't have been that busy. Besides the CCTV showing the fact, the guard was able to get up and down and even move people to first class.

I've been on trains where you'd never get out of your seat, let alone walk through to a toilet or the cafe bar. That was 'ram-packed'!

 

[WatcherZero]

I personally judge a train as ram packed if you lose your balance but the scrum stops you falling over :P

 

[6Gman]

I personally judge a train as ram packed if you lose your balance but the scrum stops you falling over :P

And there are people on here who judge a train ram-packed if they can't have four seats round a table, to themselves ... and in the Quiet Coach!

 

[class387]

For me there are two defenitions of ram-packed:

a) There is so many people you can't get on.
b) There is so many people you can't get off.

'There aren't two unreserved seats for me any my wife to sit in' is not one of them.

 

[work-traveller]

Either way, Jeremy should be credited with conflating two phrases to create an entirely new one. The spirit of George W Bush lives on in the most unlikely of successors!

Rammed + jam packed = ram packed

 

[EM2]

For me there are two defenitions of ram-packed:

a) There is so many people you can't get on.
b) There is so many people you can't get off.

'There aren't two unreserved seats for me any my wife to sit in' is not one of them.

But that's for you. Other people have different definitions.

 

[jon0844]

But that's for you. Other people have different definitions.

True, but he was making a video about packed trains and being recorded on the floor which implied he couldn't move through the train - let alone find a seat.

Had Virgin not done anything, it's what people would have believed to be true. After all Jeremy is an honest, old-school, politician who isn't corrupted by power.

 

[TheEdge]

Political beast moves in for the kill...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...5ce4b09848180b9195?ncid=fcbklnkukhpmg00000001

Jeremy Corbyn Train Seat Row Reignited By Hornby’s New Virgin Model Tease

The row brewing over ‘Traingate’ has been reignited by a model train company that mocked Jeremy Corbyn with an announcement of their latest product.

Hornby, a British model railway brand, poked fun at the Labour leader after he became embroiled in controversy for sitting in a seat on a train he had originally sat on the floor of claiming it was “ram-packed”.

The company published a post declaring it would release a new Virgin East Coast Train Pack, featuring a finely-crafted model and promised it would be “complete with many empty seats”.

 

[HH]

"This train is ram packed" is subjectively true.

There's no such thing as subjectively true. It's an opinion. And, as they say, opinions are like a$$holes - they all stink, but some stink worse than others.

And given that there were clearly empty seats, established not only by the video, but by other passengers, staff, his team and even Saint Jezza himself, I think that most people would see his opinion as pretty damned stinky. Well apart from the corbynista religious zealots, who would swear that black was white if Jezza said it first.

Is there anything worse than people who substitute dogma for reason? In Russia it gives us Putin; in America Trump; and now we're jumping on the idiot bandwagon with Corbyn. Whatever happened to good, old-fashioned cynicism?

 

[najaB]

There's no such thing as subjectively true. It's an opinion.

Sorry, but that's not correct - subjective v objective truth is a major philosophical theme.

Opinion is the counterpoint to fact.

 

[Busaholic]

I would sum it all up as 'Jeremy Corbyn postures while on his posterior'.