June 2024 Timetable Change

[Class15]

This has been the case since December.. first stop Slough.

Ahh, I see. Any reason why? That service was quite useful.

 

[swt_passenger]

This has been the case since December.. first stop Slough.

I thought they changed to mostly run on the fasts in May last year? There were threads here that mentioned it at the time?

 

[XCTurbostar]

Indeed, they swap to the slows at Dolphin Junction (Slough)

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Mains and Reliefs! None of that ‘fast’ and ‘slow’ nonsense on the Western

 

[brad465]

Mains and Reliefs! None of that ‘fast’ and ‘slow’ nonsense on the Western

I got scolded on here several years ago for the reverse: using "mains and reliefs" on the ECML.

 

[hexagon789]

Oh, maybe this is a previous change. Never noticed it before. In that case, when did that happen and why?

Isn't it all connected with the Elizabeth Line service changes?

 

[swt_passenger]

Isn't it all connected with the Elizabeth Line service changes?

Definitely, yes. I think the background is spread over quite a few threads, unfortunately it’ll be almost impossible to link to a concise explanation.

But the GWR public announcement was last May and confirms that it started with the May 2023 timetable change:

Biggest timetable shake-up in almost five years as GWR responds to changes in passenger travel patterns

GWR has responded to changes in passenger travel patterns in the Thames Valley, with the biggest shake-up to railway timetables since the introduction of Intercity Express Trains, bringing greater connectivity to Elizabeth line destinations.

news.gwr.com

 

[nw1]

Definitely, yes. I think the background is spread over quite a few threads, unfortunately it’ll be almost impossible to link to a concise explanation.

The paths were released from the non-existence of the Bristol super-fast, if I remember right.

 

[mangyiscute]

Ahh, I see. Any reason why? That service was quite useful.

Yeah it's because the Elizabeth line started running more services west of Paddington using all of the paths on the reliefs there, plus the Oxford services have had their Slough stops removed to speed them up and make the fast service more uniform between Reading and London which is fine because the Didcot services now provide a fast service for Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford to London throughout the day and not just at peak time.
These changes annoyed me too, since I often travel Reading to Ealing and the frequency has been halved with worse trains (387s have forwards facing seats, tables and plug sockets) but ultimately a lot more people will be travelling Maidenhead/Slough to London who get a much better service (the oxford trains are always full so the Slough passengers would have to stand on those) so the changes do make sense.
I'm just hoping they extend the Maidenhead terminator on the Elizabeth line out to Reading to maintain the 15 min frequency, but I'm not optimistic at all.

 

[Bikeman78]

I think it’s been touched on before, but the changes to the peak time Bromley North shuttle service are awful. It changes a useful service into one that a lot of people will ignore in favour of the bus. The morning peak has the 3tph service reduced from 7am to 10am, to just 7-8am. This removes the key city bound train, which was 08.14, connecting to the 8.23 Grove Park to Cannon St. They’ve then introduced 3tph from 5pm to 7pm, which breaks the links to the Charing X trains and leaves quite a few 15 minute waits at Grove Park. The peak trains are not at clockface 20 minute intervals, but are at quite random times.

The current timetable works well, I wish they’d left it alone. As it is, I suspect I’ll be using the new superloop bus a fair bit from Bromley North to Chislehurst and getting the trains from there.

With four trains per hour from London, it really shouldn't be difficult to make a self contained shuttle connect at Grove Park. In reality it's about as bad as it could possibly be.

 

[PGAT]

With four trains per hour from London, it really shouldn't be difficult to make a self contained shuttle connect at Grove Park. In reality it's about as bad as it could possibly be.

Theoretically you could have 4tph shuttling with just one unit

 

[Bletchleyite]

Theoretically you could have 4tph shuttling with just one unit

Or just plan the timetable to connect rather than randomly doing 3tph at random intervals. The purpose of it is to connect to London trains, so it should be timed to do so.

 

[nw1]

With four trains per hour from London, it really shouldn't be difficult to make a self contained shuttle connect at Grove Park. In reality it's about as bad as it could possibly be.

Or just plan the timetable to connect rather than randomly doing 3tph at random intervals. The purpose of it is to connect to London trains, so it should be timed to do so.

As I said, compare and contrast with 1982 (timetable on Timetable World).

3tph shuttle with excellent connection to 3tph London service, all at clockface intervals.

 

[Bikeman78]

Or just plan the timetable to connect rather than randomly doing 3tph at random intervals. The purpose of it is to connect to London trains, so it should be timed to do so.

Apologies, I got this wrong. It works fine off peak with five minutes in the down direction and four minutes going up. No idea what I looked at before.

 

[brad465]

Theoretically you could have 4tph shuttling with just one unit

You can, but pre-covid when it was done it required double manning as the turnaround time was too short for one driver to change ends, despite only having to walk the length of a 2 carriage unit.

 

[30907]

compare and contrast with 1982 (timetable on Timetable World).

3tph shuttle with excellent connection to 3tph London service, all at clockface intervals.

But the peak service isn't 3tph any more, it's 2tph-based, which will always be difficult to manage for the branch.

 

[thealexweb]

Has anyone noticed any more Northern 323 diagrams in and around Liverpool?

 

[Mike99]

Recently one of the Senior Conductors took well over £1k on the 17:30 down. Was mainly upgrades to First Class to obtain a seat and those with wrong train Advance Purchase tickets.



Yes I had mentioned this earlier in the thread. With the 08:00 becoming a peak train the already busy 08:30 now takes this honour and has had Stowmarket & Chelmsford added to its calling points. When the ridiculously flexible hare fares are offered they really need to be barred from this service. One to watch with interest.

Will the two faster services be on your roster to drive them after the June changes?

 

[dk1]

Will the two faster services be on your roster to drive them after the June changes?

Only the 08:00up unless things change. The 17:00dn is Ipswich/Liv St.

 

[Mike99]

I was wondering hoe busy the line is in the evening peak how difficult it will be to get to Ipswich in 58 minutes including the Stratford stop?

 

[dk1]

I was wondering hoe busy the line is in the evening peak how difficult it will be to get to Ipswich in 58 minutes including the Stratford stop?

Will be a piece of cake like it was before when it was non-stop.

Much of the GEML works around the Intercity service.

 

[Liverpool 507]

What is preventing Northern from re-introducing the Warrington Bank Quay locals? I still find it delusional that Huyton to Earlestown doesn't warrant a second stopping train, yet other lines currently operating (* or yet to open) such as Wigan to Southport, Ashington* to Newcastle, Saltburn etc. do warrant a half hourly service.

 

[Llandudno]

What is preventing Northern from re-introducing the Warrington Bank Quay locals? I still find it delusional that Huyton to Earlestown doesn't warrant a second stopping train, yet other lines currently operating (* or yet to open) such as Wigan to Southport, Ashington* to Newcastle, Saltburn etc. do warrant a half hourly service.

Perhaps it maybe worth contacting the Liverpool City Region Mayor…?

 

[Adam Evans]

What is preventing Northern from re-introducing the Warrington Bank Quay locals? I still find it delusional that Huyton to Earlestown doesn't warrant a second stopping train, yet other lines currently operating (* or yet to open) such as Wigan to Southport, Ashington* to Newcastle, Saltburn etc. do warrant a half hourly service.

I was told by a conductor a while back that even before COVID it was one of the most heavily subsidised services on the Northern network and that they were looking for a reason to cut it beforehand, but that politics kept it afloat.

I do agree though that it is ludicrous that stations east of Huyton like Whiston, Rainhill and St Helens Junction are stuck with measly one train per hour. Prior to the 2018 timetable change I think these stations had at least 2tph as as one or both of them went to Mcr Victoria as well as the extra service to Bank Quay. I might be wrong on this though.

I hope they bring it back at some point, but at the moment it doesn't seem likely anytime soon.

 

[nw1]

I was told by a conductor a while back that even before COVID it was one of the most heavily subsidised services on the Northern network and that they were looking for a reason to cut it beforehand, but that politics kept it afloat.

I do agree though that it is ludicrous that stations east of Huyton like Whiston, Rainhill and St Helens Junction are stuck with measly one train per hour. Prior to the 2018 timetable change I think these stations had at least 2tph as as one or both of them went to Mcr Victoria as well as the extra service to Bank Quay. I might be wrong on this though.

I hope they bring it back at some point, but at the moment it doesn't seem likely anytime soon.

Were these part of that diagramming pattern that included Liverpool-Manchester then Manchester-Crewe?

ISTR it was something like Liverpool-Manchester-Crewe-Manchester-Liverpool-Warrington-Liverpool then repeat, and was introduced on electrification.

Possible I've got it mixed up with something else as I'm completely out of touch with that part of the country nowadays.

If so then presumably it wasn't that expensive to run because it fit into an interworking pattern with other services?

 

[158841]

Things are changing up to Shrewsbury.
As previously discussed one WMR service will run via Bescot and one via Smethwick however it seems that the xx40 from salop to Brum will now leave at xx59 and be run semi fast straight to brum and then another service being the xx05 which will run via Bescot which should relieve the delays on the line and any catching up of services!

So clockface will be
XX05 to brum via Bescot all stations
XX30 to brum (TfW)
XX59 to brum via Smethwick semi fast.

 

[AJDesiro]

Things are changing up to Shrewsbury.
As previously discussed one WMR service will run via Bescot and one via Smethwick however it seems that the xx40 from salop to Brum will now leave at xx59 and be run semi fast straight to brum and then another service being the xx05 which will run via Bescot which should relieve the delays on the line and any catching up of services!

So clockface will be
XX05 to brum via Bescot all stations
XX30 to brum (TfW)
XX59 to brum via Smethwick semi fast.

In a way, it's similar to the 3tph Avanti's from Birmingham to Euston, with a half-hourly fast pattern, with a slower train sandwiched closely after a fast one. That slower service will probably be good for those who want a quieter journey.

 

[OneOfThe48]

Interesting article that I’ve only just spotted confirming that the Hemel extensions of the West London Line are going in June.

The article blames it squarely on Network Rail too

www.hemeltoday.co.uk/news/transport/hemel-hempstead-commuter-train-to-london-scrapped-due-to-overcrowding-pressures-4557110

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting article that I’ve only just spotted confirming that the Hemel extensions of the West London Line are going in June.

The article blames it squarely on Network Rail too

www.hemeltoday.co.uk/news/transport/hemel-hempstead-commuter-train-to-london-scrapped-due-to-overcrowding-pressures-4557110

That reads like they are going entirely, as the data shows at present - i.e. a two hour gap in the peak.

 

[Railperf]

Has Greater Anglia published it's June timetable yet?