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Labour MP murdered in shooting/stabbing incident

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jon0844

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I see absolutely no evidence of any of that.
I don't either, but it IS becoming an issue at many universities with social justice warriors getting support, and funding, to preach this sort of thing. YouTube highlights loads of examples of censorship encouraged by people, albeit mostly in the USA.

It is something that could affect the next generation more, so it needs to be looked at as it's a step on from the other conspiracy theories, yet more believable than stuff about lizards and such like.
 
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RichmondCommu

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I would condemn violence against anybody.

You are trying to score cheap political points and frankly it's rather tiresome.

Right, lets get a few things straight here. This is not the Today Programme or for that matter Newsnight or Question Time. This is in fact an internet forum where people are free to share their thoughts and ideas provided that they stick to the rules. In that case why are you so paranoid about me scoring "cheap political points"?? I'm not doing anything of the sort; all I'm doing is posting what I think. However you're so worried that my thoughts might influence others that you have decided to try and become the Forum's Head Of Thought Police. Well good luck with that because it won't wash with me.

Secondly, you might think that race related attacks / violence / marches are "rather tiresome" but I can assure you that my wife's sister didn't think it was "rather tiresome" when her new and expensive car was keyed by local members of the BNP. However, as you have already stated that's all "rather tiresome" and you'd rather not hear about it.
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Unfortunately you are making a political point on the death of a young woman bringing totally irrelevant alleged incidents into the debate which has nothing to do with the subject.

Right, lets think about this. The man (in the loosest sense of the word) who murdered Jo Cox is a self proclaimed Far Right political activist who considers anyone who wishes to remain in the EU to be "a traitor". Jo Cox was a prominent member of the 'Remain' camp and so Tommy Mair decided that he had to kill Jo Cox. That's not a "political point", indeed that's exactly what happened. The fact that you are seemingly unable to live with that is hugely disappointing.

There can be no question that Tommy Mair was under the influence of Far Right groups, both overseas and in this country. However in order to try and avoid the uncomfortable truth you and one or two others are trying to dismiss this as "political points"!.

When you refer to what I posted as "alleged incidents" I'm going to assume here that you are perhaps casting doubt on what I have posted regarding racially motivated incidents. If indeed that is true can I assume that you don't think that:-

Asian owned properties and businesses often come under attack

That Asians themselves in certain areas of the country don't suffer from race based attacks, both physical and verbal.

And Far Right groups don't stage demonstrations in our towns and city's in order to provoke a response, to try to gather support.

Finally, I think it's worth mentioning here that some of the money pouring into the Jo Cox fund will be donated to the charity Hope Not Hate. I think that tells you all you need to know about the connection between Jo Cox's despicable death and the constant battle against racial hatred, which you of course describe as "alleged incidents".

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To me, it appears he was influenced more by Anders Behring Breivik than Nigel Farage.

Yes I'd agree with that.
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So it appears that Jack Buckby from the British National Party will be contest the seat left vacant by Jo Cox.

Oh what a surprise. Still, if I dare to criticize that no doubt I will be accused of making a "cheap political point" whilst he will be applauded for upholding democracy.
 
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Gutfright

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There can be no question that Tommy Mair was under the influence of Far Right groups, both overseas and in this country.

Recent events should serve to remind us of how important it is to do all we can to oppose the far-right.

It's absolutely scandalous that, having very soundly rejected the BNP at the ballot box, the people of Britain find that nasty far-right groups like Golden Dawn, Front National, Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands, Dansk Folkeparti, Partij voor de Vrijheid, Freiheitliche Partei Österreichs, Lega Nord and Jobbik now have a say in the laws that govern this country.

As if that weren't outrageous enough, we are also forced to help fund these vile organisations which recieve millions of Euros a year from the EU.

The UK should be proud that we have, as a country, rejected far-right extremism. It's very worrying that Europe refuses to do the same. The far-right should not be given the power over our country that the EU allows them, and these horrible parties should not recieve a single penny of British taxpayer's money.
 

Antman

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Right, lets get a few things straight here. This is not the Today Programme or for that matter Newsnight or Question Time. This is in fact an internet forum where people are free to share their thoughts and ideas provided that they stick to the rules. In that case why are you so paranoid about me scoring "cheap political points"?? I'm not doing anything of the sort; all I'm doing is posting what I think. However you're so worried that my thoughts might influence others that you have decided to try and become the Forum's Head Of Thought Police. Well good luck with that because it won't wash with me.

Secondly, you might think that race related attacks / violence / marches are "rather tiresome" but I can assure you that my wife's sister didn't think it was "rather tiresome" when her new and expensive car was keyed by local members of the BNP. However, as you have already stated that's all "rather tiresome" and you'd rather not hear about

.

What is rather tiresome is you trying to score cheap political points and you're still at it, you have bought your wife and now your wife's sister into this, what have they got to do with the murder of Jo Cox? Why don't you start a new thread about your wife and her sister and see if anybody is interested instead of trying to hijack this one?
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Recent events should serve to remind us of how important it is to do all we can to oppose the far-right.

It's absolutely scandalous that, having very soundly rejected the BNP at the ballot box, the people of Britain find that nasty far-right groups like Golden Dawn, Front National, Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands, Dansk Folkeparti, Partij voor de Vrijheid, Freiheitliche Partei Österreichs, Lega Nord and Jobbik now have a say in the laws that govern this country.

As if that weren't outrageous enough, we are also forced to help fund these vile organisations which recieve millions of Euros a year from the EU.

The UK should be proud that we have, as a country, rejected far-right extremism. It's very worrying that Europe refuses to do the same. The far-right should not be given the power over our country that the EU allows them, and these horrible parties should not recieve a single penny of British taxpayer's money.

Another one using the death of Jo Cox to score political points.
 

DarloRich

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It isn't "cheap political points scoring" to note the following which is based upon media reporting:


  • That an eyewitness heard the killer shout a right wing slogan at the time of the attack
  • That he sought treatment for mental illness and had suffered for some time.
  • That far-right publications were found at the killers home.
  • That he subscribed to far right groups abroad
  • That he associated with Britain First - pictures show him taking part in a rally in Dewsbury holding a Britain First banner
  • He used the phrase my name is death to traitors, freedom for Britain was asked to confirm his name in court.
 

Antman

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It isn't "cheap political points scoring" to note the following which is based upon media reporting:


  • That an eyewitness heard the killer shout a right wing slogan at the time of the attack
  • That he sought treatment for mental illness and had suffered for some time.
  • That far-right publications were found at the killers home.
  • That he subscribed to far right groups abroad
  • That he associated with Britain First - pictures show him taking part in a rally in Dewsbury holding a Britain First banner
  • He used the phrase my name is death to traitors, freedom for Britain was asked to confirm his name in court.

Of course most of this is just here say but it obviously suits you to believe it's all true, there is nothing to suggest that this individual was acting on behalf of any political party indeed I believe various far right groups have unequivocally condemned Jo's murder.

Frankly this whole debate has become tiresome beyond belief, as tragic as the death of Jo Cox was the fact is that people are murdered every day in the UK, are their deaths somehow less tragic?

Clearly there are people exploiting Jo's death for their own ends and I find that quite distasteful.

Like many other people I've become sick and tired of this referendum debate, I decided long ago which way I was voting and nothing I've seen since comes anywhere near changing my mind.

Roll on Thursday and lets get it all over and done with. There will be no further contributions from me to this thread.
 
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DarloRich

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Of course most of this is just here say but it obviously suits you to believe it's all true, there is nothing to suggest that this individual was acting on behalf of any political party indeed I believe various far right groups have unequivocally condemned Jo's murder.

Frankly this whole debate has become tiresome beyond belief, as tragic as the death of Jo Cox was the fact is that people are murdered every day in the UK, are their deaths somehow less tragic?

Clearly there are people exploiting Jo's death for their own ends and I find that quite distasteful.

Like many other people I've become sick and tired of this referendum debate, I decided long ago which way I was voting and nothing I've seen since comes anywhere near changing my mind.

Roll on Thursday and lets get it all over and done with. There will be no further contributions from me to this thread.

And where have I said he was acting on behalf of any political party? I simply set out the facts, as reported in the media. That the killer has sympathies with far right tendencies seems clear on the reported information. This is not a case of selecting which information suits you but referring to media comment. It has been reported in all of the main stream media that the killer had far right sympathies, but I agree it could all be vast conspiracy designed to discredit the right/leave campaigners. It is odd how information presented in the mainstream media is fine when it comes to ,say, immigrants but not killers. Then we must be skeptical. It might all be made up.

I bet various far right groups have unequivocally condemned Jo's murder - they will be very twitchy about what happens to them in the future once all this plays out. It is worth pointing out that the video message from Britain First didn't actually unequivocally condemn the murder. It spent a lot of timing saying they weren't responsible which isn't quite the same thing.

BTW, there were some political point rights there. Did you see the difference between reported facts and opinion?
 
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Tetchytyke

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Of course most of this is just here say but it obviously suits you to believe it's all true, there is nothing to suggest that this individual was acting on behalf of any political party indeed I believe various far right groups have unequivocally condemned Jo's murder.

Britain First haven't.

And the killer was a known Britain First activist.

Far-right extremism has been ignored for too long. Stuff like Redwatch has been dismissed as a harmless bit of fun, but it isn't.
 

northwichcat

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The BNP and other such groupings will seek to spread their poison, but I hope the Labour Party do NOT campaign and thus, other than mentioning an election is taking place, the others will not be able to get publicity from the broadcasting authorities and can go back under their stones.

The person standing in the seat held by Jo Cox is actually a former BNP member, who is standing for a fairly recently registered political party called Liberty GB. So as much as the majority of us hate the BNP we can't have a go at them for putting forward a candidate for Birstall as they've haven't yet.
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Britain First haven't.

Both the leader and deputy leader have condemned the attack.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...f6a6e4b0681487dcdcc1?edition=uk&utm_hp_ref=uk
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/680623/Jo-Cox-Labour-Birstall-West-Yorkshire-Britain-First
 

Tetchytyke

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Harbornite

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Of course most of this is just here say but it obviously suits you to believe it's all true, there is nothing to suggest that this individual was acting on behalf of any political party indeed I believe various far right groups have unequivocally condemned Jo's murder.

.

What gives you the right to say that what has been reported is wrong? Even if he wasn't working for a party, there was still a degree of political motivation for the attack.
 

61653 HTAFC

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No they haven't "unequivocally condemned" the murder. They've spent the time telling everyone that they had nothing to do with it. That's not the same thing at all.

Indeed their leader said he wanted her killer strung up from the nearest lamp-post. I can see why, but I don't think that would be the outcome Jo or her family would want. Such a statement says far more about Britain First than about Jo Cox.
 

Johnuk123

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Thomas Mair not charged with any terrorist offence today so all the "experts" out there are wrong again in quickly deciding he was one.
 

DynamicSpirit

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May be worth mentioning that even Nigel Farage has described Jo Cox's killing as an act of terrorism.
 
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Arglwydd Golau

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Thomas Mair not charged with any terrorist offence today so all the "experts" out there are wrong again in quickly deciding he was one.

From 'Guardian' website:
A man accused of murdering the Labour MP Jo Cox has appeared again in court, ahead of a further appearance next week when he will face a judge under terrorism protocols.
 

Johnuk123

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From 'Guardian' website:
A man accused of murdering the Labour MP Jo Cox has appeared again in court, ahead of a further appearance next week when he will face a judge under terrorism protocols.

Means nothing, until he's charged with terrorism he's just a nut case with a grudge.

Even if he was he still has to be convicted although I see he already has been on here.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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Means nothing, until he's charged with terrorism he's just a nut case with a grudge.

Even if he was he still has to be convicted although I see he already has been on here.

I'm not sure that the expression 'nut case' is helpful here.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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In what why? Why should anyone be sparing that loony's feelings?

Because, as with the term 'loony' it is a general perjorative term for anyone with a Mental Health issue...and also a number of forum members have indicated that they have problems with their Mental Health, it is not a word I would have used in my professional career etc etc.
I am not sparing his feelings, I just feel that appropriate terminology, rather than deprecatory terms should be used. This has been mentioned on other threads.
 

DynamicSpirit

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In what why? Why should anyone be sparing that loony's feelings?

(a) because people are human beings, and remain so, no matter what crimes they have committed.
(b) because once you start down the road of describing people as 'nutcases' or 'loonies', you are down the path of dehumanizing people, and that's the path that leads to hatred etc.,
(c) because dehumanizing politicians and MPs by describing them as, for example, 'all the same' or 'the elite' or similar terms may well make it easier for other people to think that perhaps it's OK to commit violence against them, and - ummm - I seem to recall we have a recent example of that. Same logic applies to any person or group of people, not only MPs, and...
(d) because, as far as I can make out, dehumanizing people appears to be a perfect example of the kind of thing that Jo Cox was so passionately against (although I don't know what her precise views would have been on this particular question)

Don't get me wrong, what the guy who killed Jo Cox did was absolutely horrendous, and I hope he gets the kind of sentence that will seriously make other people think twice about committing the same kind of violence. But to my mind, dehumanizing *anyone* by using terms such as 'loony' to describe them is wrong.
 
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