Lack of ticket on departure on Merseyrail

[Qwerty133]

I have no idea if they are still there or not, but London Midland installed a TVM on campus at Birmingham University and EMT installed them on campus at places like Loughborough University and Sheffield University.

The ticket collection machine at Sheffield Uni is still there (as of early June) but is out of use or otherwise faulty more often than not.

 

[Skie]

It's definitely a pain in the backside, but my employer has a ticket printer and using it means a slightly discounted fare so we generally get our tickets that way. It's just a PC with a ticket printer attached, so relatively simple to have sitting in an office.

When you have to travel and can't visit the office before the trip then Merseyrails lack of ToD does become an issue. Employer pays for travel from home station to eventual destination, but without being able to collect your ticket until you get to a non Merseyrail station means you tend to have to pay out of pocket and claim it back, which increases administration costs (and actually increases the total cost of the journey, as a ticket from my local station to Euston is the same price as from Lime Street to Euston).

Has anyone sent them an email requesting this service recently? Might be worth a few tries, they do actually listen

 

[causton]

I think ToD is available at Edinburgh Airport too, and the University of Nottingham. It's definitely available at the University of Leeds even though EMT scarcely serve Leeds.

First Capital Connect installed one in the University of Hertfordshire campus. I don't know if it has survived Great Northern and the subsequent replacement of Shere with S&B machines!

 

[Muzer]

My mum now lives near Bache station. She prefers to get a taxi to Chester when travelling far, in part due to the inability to pick up tickets at Bache. This is literally turning people off rail travel.

 

[Polarbear]

I have a similar issue in that when I travel for work, I have to pick up TOD tickets from a station that offers the facility.

Ok when I'm travelling from Liverpool (albeit I have to go up to Lime Street which is the other end of town from my office). When travelling from Bache, I end up going to Chester before the date of travel to collect tickets.

 

[Gareth Marston]

My mum now lives near Bache station. She prefers to get a taxi to Chester when travelling far, in part due to the inability to pick up tickets at Bache. This is literally turning people off rail travel.

85% of internet sales are for tickets that can be bought on the day at face value with no extra charges. If your buying Anytime or Off Peak tickets online your just adding a layer of complexity that's not actually needed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

85% of internet sales are for tickets that can be bought on the day at face value with no extra charges. If your buying Anytime or Off Peak tickets online your just adding a layer of complexity that's not actually needed.

Er, seat reservations?

The solution to that would be to allow online reservation without a ticket, though, like DB do.

 

[35B]

Er, seat reservations?



The solution to that would be to allow online reservation without a ticket, though, like DB do.

That raises issues about capacity on heavily laden trains, which also links to the treatment of season ticket holders on some lines.


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[SpacePhoenix]

85% of internet sales are for tickets that can be bought on the day at face value with no extra charges. If your buying Anytime or Off Peak tickets online your just adding a layer of complexity that's not actually needed.

How many of that 85% are tickets where the journey starts from a station where there's a good chance of very long queues for the ticket offices and maybe also for the TVMs?

 

[Camden]

The alternative to that view is that this is a metropolitan rail system that people use on a daily basis to get about the metropolitan area. This usually means people turning up at the station with minutes to spare wanting to get on the next train.

A bundle of people faffing about picking up tickets for the next day, or printing reams of coupons for split journeys, wouldn't be a proper use of metro station facilities where instead of quick ticket dispensing you end up with a queue of people missing their train.

 

[Gareth Marston]

How many of that 85% are tickets where the journey starts from a station where there's a good chance of very long queues for the ticket offices and maybe also for the TVMs?

Then the same argument applies to when they come and collect a TOD.

 

[cuccir]

There are many good reasons for buying flexible tickets in advance online:

• Ability to collect or receive ticket before the day of travel
• Ability to self-select seats
• Ability to browse services and reserve yourself
• Reward/Points schemes, whether through TOCs or other sources
• Ability to claim for travel in advance from employers
• Preference for the format!

I'm sure that there are others....

 

[Gareth Marston]

There are many good reasons for buying flexible tickets in advance online:

• Ability to collect or receive ticket before the day of travel
• Ability to self-select seats
• Ability to browse services and reserve yourself
• Reward/Points schemes, whether through TOCs or other sources
• Ability to claim for travel in advance from employers
• Preference for the format!

I'm sure that there are others....

Going to a booking office/ TVM can do that function as well.
Vast majority of services are non reservable.
Most folk are traveling for a reason at the times they do, I.e have to be there by a certain time for appointment, start time of game/concert, check in time of flight etc. in reality the totally flexible traveler is few and far between.
The industry as a whole has missed this trick driven by franchise agreement targets set by Govt rather than thinking customer.
Never in 25 years have I seen a claim before you travel T S policy.
Give me a BR all lines timetable any day.

 

[Muzer]

Going to a booking office/ TVM can do that function as well.

Many TVMs can't do it (can't remember if Merseyrail can), and Bache doesn't have a ticket office.

Vast majority of services are non reservable.

Virgin Trains Chester-London (and Liverpool-London) is reservable. Most services for long-distance travel, which (besides commuter trains) are by far the most well-used, are reservable. The services my mum wants to travel on are reservable.

Most folk are traveling for a reason at the times they do, I.e have to be there by a certain time for appointment, start time of game/concert, check in time of flight etc. in reality the totally flexible traveler is few and far between.

Totally flexible? Sure, few people are totally flexible. But many have a window of, say, a few hours, especially for leisure travel. Even if you have a specific thing you're doing, many people would be able to spend more or less time before (or after, in the case of a matinee) the thing they're doing depending on the price of train tickets. If my mum goes to London to see a play she'll probably do other things in the morning, and arrive at a time when it's cheapest.

The industry as a whole has missed this trick driven by franchise agreement targets set by Govt rather than thinking customer.

And yet, online-only reward schemes do still exist.

Never in 25 years have I seen a claim before you travel T S policy.

I'll give you that one; neither have I.

Give me a BR all lines timetable any day.

You're not a normal passenger. None of us on here are normal passengers. I also like having a paper timetable from time to time - but even my grandparents react with incredulity about why I don't just search online.

 

[35B]

Going to a booking office/ TVM can do that function as well.

Vast majority of services are non reservable.

Most folk are traveling for a reason at the times they do, I.e have to be there by a certain time for appointment, start time of game/concert, check in time of flight etc. in reality the totally flexible traveler is few and far between.

The industry as a whole has missed this trick driven by franchise agreement targets set by Govt rather than thinking customer.

Never in 25 years have I seen a claim before you travel T S policy.

Give me a BR all lines timetable any day.

They can, but I'm about to buy a monthly while cursing my inability to purchase online, as I have to go out of my way to go to the booking office at my station.

Any good retailer will offer a choice of channels, and will ensure that fulfilment works smoothly and efficiently whichever is chosen. I rate my local booking office, but the opening times don't always suit, while online helps my thinking.

The railways have a lot to learn from the likes of John Lewis.


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[cuccir]

Going to a booking office/ TVM can do that function as well.
Vast majority of services are non reservable.
Most folk are traveling for a reason at the times they do, I.e have to be there by a certain time for appointment, start time of game/concert, check in time of flight etc. in reality the totally flexible traveler is few and far between.
The industry as a whole has missed this trick driven by franchise agreement targets set by Govt rather than thinking customer.
Never in 25 years have I seen a claim before you travel T S policy.
Give me a BR all lines timetable any day.

And?

Nowhere did I say "all people want to book in advance". Just that there are many good reasons that people might want to do it, in contrast to the claim that it adds complications for no good reasons. There are, in fact, many good reasons.

I can claim for purchased rail tickets before travel through my employer. I have done this recently for a work commitment in August, in order to put the money in a budget that I need to spend by mid July. This is probably an oddity of working in Higher Education where research budgets are somewhat different to a usual business's budget.

 

[rs101]

Going to a booking office/ TVM can do that function as well.
Vast majority of services are non reservable.
Most folk are traveling for a reason at the times they do, I.e have to be there by a certain time for appointment, start time of game/concert, check in time of flight etc. in reality the totally flexible traveler is few and far between.
The industry as a whole has missed this trick driven by franchise agreement targets set by Govt rather than thinking customer.
Never in 25 years have I seen a claim before you travel T S policy.
Give me a BR all lines timetable any day.

Our office regularly send employees for day events in London. Not all the employees have company credit cards so tickets are purchased by the admin team using their cards for TOD collection by the employee.

These are usually journeys on the Norwich-> Liverpool Street line at peak times so reservations are essential for the first leg of the return. The homeward trip needs flexibility as events frequently either finish early or late.

Using a booking office/TVM isn't a practical option as it'd take an hour or so each time compared to 5 minutes via the website.

 

[Gareth Marston]

They can, but I'm about to buy a monthly while cursing my inability to purchase online, as I have to go out of my way to go to the booking office at my station.

Any good retailer will offer a choice of channels, and will ensure that fulfilment works smoothly and efficiently whichever is chosen. I rate my local booking office, but the opening times don't always suit, while online helps my thinking.

The railways have a lot to learn from the likes of John Lewis.


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We stopped using John Lewis online after they twice sent us the wrong item in the packaging with the correct paperwork, sending them back and getting a refund was an absolute pig. However going into store we still do.

 

[Gareth Marston]

And?

Nowhere did I say "all people want to book in advance". Just that there are many good reasons that people might want to do it, in contrast to the claim that it adds complications for no good reasons. There are, in fact, many good reasons.

I can claim for purchased rail tickets before travel through my employer. I have done this recently for a work commitment in August, in order to put the money in a budget that I need to spend by mid July. This is probably an oddity of working in Higher Education where research budgets are somewhat different to a usual business's budget.

What I don't want it is a move toward a universal "book in Advance only" railway. People are starting to get a misconception that you have to book ahead.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I used to work at the Santander offices in Bootle, the local staff were always complaining about not being able to pickup tickets purchased by the company at local stations, only Lime Street and South Parkway

 

[35B]

We stopped using John Lewis online after they twice sent us the wrong item in the packaging with the correct paperwork, sending them back and getting a refund was an absolute pig. However going into store we still do.

Our experiences differ. The point remains though - retailers need to respond to their customers, not dictate to them.

I also agree with your point about turn up and go.


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[Gareth Marston]

Our experiences differ. The point remains though - retailers need to respond to their customers, not dictate to them.

I also agree with your point about turn up and go.


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The trouble is Merseyrail is not the retailer............

 

[Joe Paxton]

What I don't want it is a move toward a universal "book in Advance only" railway. People are starting to get a misconception that you have to book ahead.

Absolutely.

I've just had a thought regarding corporate / business purchases of train tickets - what if there could be a sort of rail version of a fuel card for businesses, whereby tickets could be bought at ticket offices or TVMs and the data regarding the number and cost of tickets, the ticket type(s) and the origin(s) and destination(s) would be fed back to the corporate account holder?

I appreciate current ticket issuing systems likely couldn't be set up to do this, and it'd require a cross-industry approach, but it might appeal to some businesses whose people make a lot of use of walk-up tickets.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Our office regularly send employees for day events in London. Not all the employees have company credit cards so tickets are purchased by the admin team using their cards for TOD collection by the employee.

These are usually journeys on the Norwich-> Liverpool Street line at peak times so reservations are essential for the first leg of the return. The homeward trip needs flexibility as events frequently either finish early or late.

Using a booking office/TVM isn't a practical option as it'd take an hour or so each time compared to 5 minutes via the website.

The GA special Business Fare is a combined AP OUT and an Anytime Return RTN for £76.00 its a really good bargain but must be purchased before 1800 the day before subject to availability. I don't think anyone bar GA do anything similar?

However your walk on Anytme Return to London is £105.70 - theirs plenty of folk elsewhere that would happily have a walk on to London for that price.

 

[35B]

Absolutely.



I've just had a thought regarding corporate / business purchases of train tickets - what if there could be a sort of rail version of a fuel card for businesses, whereby tickets could be bought at ticket offices or TVMs and the data regarding the number and cost of tickets, the ticket type(s) and the origin(s) and destination(s) would be fed back to the corporate account holder?



I appreciate current ticket issuing systems likely couldn't be set up to do this, and it'd require a cross-industry approach, but it might appeal to some businesses whose people make a lot of use of walk-up tickets.

You could, but when I think of my business travel, a complex mixture of fares, certainty, comfort is involved. As I have a corporate credit card that I use for my purchases, as do colleagues, it is better just to have TOD available.


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[35B]

The trouble is Merseyrail is not the retailer............

But the other 2 dozen TOCs are being dragged down by the one in this case. My point is and has always been about the industry as a whole.


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[Bletchleyite]

Absolutely.

I've just had a thought regarding corporate / business purchases of train tickets - what if there could be a sort of rail version of a fuel card for businesses, whereby tickets could be bought at ticket offices or TVMs and the data regarding the number and cost of tickets, the ticket type(s) and the origin(s) and destination(s) would be fed back to the corporate account holder?

There is almost no benefit of that over the issue of a more general corporate credit card. They do get surprising amounts of information - for flights, for example, they get the PNR and details of the itinerary, when I held one they appeared on the bill.

 

[najaB]

There is almost no benefit of that over the issue of a more general corporate credit card.

Two potential benefits come to mind: they almost certainly would attract additional discounts over credit card purchases, and they would present zero risk of misspend on anything other than train tickets.

 

[edwin_m]

Two potential benefits come to mind: they almost certainly would attract additional discounts over credit card purchases, and they would present zero risk of misspend on anything other than train tickets.

Most people with corporate credit cards would want to use them for a variety of business-related purchases, rather than having to carry two cards, check two statements etc.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Most people with corporate credit cards would want to use them for a variety of business-related purchases, rather than having to carry two cards, check two statements etc.

Such a thing could be made available to those employees without corporate credit cards.

I appreciate it's a different market in many ways, but going back to my original thought I compared the idea to a rail version of a fuel card - I imagine the majority of fuel card users do not have a corporate credit card. (Furthermore, fuel cards are often impersonal, though they are linked to the vehicle by means of the reg number.)

I don't expect it to actually happen, it was just a 'blue skies' idea!