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Late LNR service 21/05/2022 from Milton Keynes to Euston after concert

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gazzaa2

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Sounds horrendous from reading social media, that after a 30,000 concert in Milton Keynes last night at Stadium MK, there was only one train back to Euston from Bletchley and dangerously overcrowded with many more left stranded. Another gig there later today and with Sunday cancellations factored in, it could be chaos again later.





 
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Wolfie

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Apparently according to West Midlands police the last train from Liverpool to the West Midlands today, which was hardly late at 2047, has been cancelled. I am assuming that Wolves fans can if necessary get back making changes en route. I'm not there as l have surgery scheduled for tomorrow....
 

gazzaa2

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Apparently according to West Midlands police the last train from Liverpool to the West Midlands today, which was hardly late at 2047, has been cancelled. I am assuming that Wolves fans can if necessary get back making changes en route. I'm not there as l have surgery scheduled for tomorrow....

Match will finish by 6pm so can still get a direct service from Lime Street but they'll be packed to the brim.
 

A0wen

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Sounds horrendous from reading social media, that after a 30,000 concert in Milton Keynes last night at Stadium MK, there was only one train back to Euston from Bletchley and dangerously overcrowded with many more left stranded. Another gig there later today and with Sunday cancellations factored in, it could be chaos again later.






Sympathy is limited - the timetable is pretty clear there are fewer trains towards London than from at that time of night.

And it's not exactly down to LNW to monitor what gigs are on at MK - it's hardly Wembley or the NEC.
 

DelayRepay

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Sympathy is limited - the timetable is pretty clear there are fewer trains towards London than from at that time of night.

And it's not exactly down to LNW to monitor what gigs are on at MK - it's hardly Wembley or the NEC.
I was going to say the same. It should have been obvious that the train wasn't going to get everyone back to London. Maybe in an ideal world the railway would have laid on extra services, but in the real world where they've having to cancel services anyway due to staff shortages, no chance.

This could have been avoided if concert goes had planned ahead.
 

td97

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Perhaps irresponsible of the organisers to have such a late finish. An earlier start (to end at say 22:15) would have meant that there would have been 4 Euston services available. A concert is not a nightclub and does not need to persist particularly late into the night
 

Ibex

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gazzaa2

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Sympathy is limited - the timetable is pretty clear there are fewer trains towards London than from at that time of night.

And it's not exactly down to LNW to monitor what gigs are on at MK - it's hardly Wembley or the NEC.

I agree you can't really blame the train company. It's a bad place for a big gig, particularly late on a Saturday night. If it finished a bit earlier, or was at least close to MKC it wouldn't have been as bad.

Maybe it's a problem of Londoners being used to a better train service, whereas people coming from other parts of the country would have known what to expect.

Looking at Realtimetrains it seems the last Euston service sat at Milton Keynes Central for 6 minutes then Bletchley for 23 minutes(!) I'm guessing while everyone tried squeezing in? https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P98780/2022-05-21

It seems there was a special 2Z05 00:45 Bletchley to Euston which was only input at 00:39 according to the activation time on RTT! https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:40965/2022-05-22

Yeah it seems as if they managed to get a through train to stop at Bletchley which was just as well as loads were left stranded. The conditions sounded horrendous on the 23:46 from Milton Keynes Central which would have already had a lot of passengers on as it was all stops from New Street (And delayed).
 
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Mike Redding

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I believe the concert was supposed to finish at 2215, at the MK dons stadium. However it's a 30 minute walk to Bletchley from there. I was at the concert and got to Bletchley station at around 2330. Thankfully heading to Northampton.

We saw the train come in from MK towards Euston and it was rammed solid before the call at Bletchley. Whilst it would have been nice for the concert organisers to liaise with LNR to see if any plans could be made, I think LNR should be commended on the quick thinking of terminating the northbound service running 10 mins behind our slightly delayed 0006 (which was just your normal busy train and left no one behind), and running it back to Euston as a relief service.

I believe the service that terminated at Bletchley was closely followed by the last train of the evening through to Northampton? Best of a bad situation.
 
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philthetube

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Wembley planning permission does not allow anything to finish after a certain time, this is because of transport.
 

CyrusWuff

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On the subject of Wembley, there was a similar farce there following the League 1 play-off final yesterday (Sunderland vs Wycombe), with reports of people still queuing for trains back to Wycombe 2+ hours after the match ended.

Not entirely surprising, however, given the numbers involved and the capacity constraints of the Chiltern route being a two-track railway for the majority of its length.
 

The Planner

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On the subject of Wembley, there was a similar farce there following the League 1 play-off final yesterday (Sunderland vs Wycombe), with reports of people still queuing for trains back to Wycombe 2+ hours after the match ended.

Not entirely surprising, however, given the numbers involved and the capacity constraints of the Chiltern route being a two-track railway for the majority of its length.
Seems odd, normally that is a pretty well oiled operation.
 

Craig1122

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Sympathy is limited - the timetable is pretty clear there are fewer trains towards London than from at that time of night.

And it's not exactly down to LNW to monitor what gigs are on at MK - it's hardly Wembley or the NEC.

Then what you're saying is that it's irresponsible for any individual to rely on using the train after an event like this. Because there's no way for people as individuals to know how many others have made the same travel choice they have.

TOC's and LU routinely monitor large events on their patch and adjust services where appropriate, and of course possible.

IMO it's very much up to event organisers and transport providers to work together. That could include curfews on event finish times as people have suggested above, extra trains or provision of coaches. Maybe it's time concert organisers collected information about how people are getting there as part of the booking process? Have rail travel or parking as an add on to the ticket so they've got a good idea how many people are using each route maybe?

It sounds as if LNW control made the best of a bad situation on the night. But if it could be done on the night it begs the question of why plans weren't made earlier.
 

A0wen

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Then what you're saying is that it's irresponsible for any individual to rely on using the train after an event like this. Because there's no way for people as individuals to know how many others have made the same travel choice they have.

TOC's and LU routinely monitor large events on their patch and adjust services where appropriate, and of course possible.

IMO it's very much up to event organisers and transport providers to work together. That could include curfews on event finish times as people have suggested above, extra trains or provision of coaches. Maybe it's time concert organisers collected information about how people are getting there as part of the booking process? Have rail travel or parking as an add on to the ticket so they've got a good idea how many people are using each route maybe?

It sounds as if LNW control made the best of a bad situation on the night. But if it could be done on the night it begs the question of why plans weren't made earlier.

No, if anything I'm saying the event organisers are irresponsible for timing their event such that it ends when there is only one train back - and the timetable set for ~26 weeks is published and available.

If they'd started their event an hour earlier it wouldn't have been an issue.

Expecting a TOC to conjure up extra trains on a Saturday evening is unreasonable - the train crew will likely be working overtime - so who picks up the bill? Perhaps the concert organisers should charter trains and coaches and foot the bill for those ?
 

GoneSouth

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Maybe in an ideal world the railway would have laid on extra services, but in the real world where they've having to cancel services anyway due to staffing shortages, no chance.

This could have been avoided if concert goes had planned ahead.
Go ask Stagecoach if they can provide extra bus capacity for events whilst not giving a toss about running their daily timetable. The answer is yes, no problem we’ll find 50 buses easily enough.

It seems that bus companies are happy to provide extra capacity, maybe if venue had conversations and planned with train operators…

Ok, maybe not, this is the railway!

By planning ahead do you mean driving to the event? I suspect most people DID plan ahead and planned to use the train.
 

sammyg901

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I saw Robbie Williams at the bowl in 2006 and Silverlink (?) had a wave of extras to take us back to London, all very well organised. Seems bizarre either extras weren't laid on or very clear messages sent by the organisers that trains wouldn't be an option
 

Starmill

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Go ask Stagecoach if they can provide extra bus capacity for events whilst not giving a toss about running their daily timetable. The answer is yes, no problem we’ll find 50 buses easily enough.
Usually, and certainly when the event is Manchester football, they are paid for this by the event organisers however. Historically they didn't even charge customers a fare.

The concert organiser has presumably not paid anything whatsoever to West Midlands Trains.
 

Craig1122

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No, if anything I'm saying the event organisers are irresponsible for timing their event such that it ends when there is only one train back - and the timetable set for ~26 weeks is published and available.

If they'd started their event an hour earlier it wouldn't have been an issue.

Expecting a TOC to conjure up extra trains on a Saturday evening is unreasonable - the train crew will likely be working overtime - so who picks up the bill? Perhaps the concert organisers should charter trains and coaches and foot the bill for those ?
Maybe there's a need to create a statutory obligation for event organisers to properly consider transport to and from. This is a topic that pops up again and again and in some cases the likes of the FA and RFU have actively ignored advice there will be no train service. Despite rail works being organised far in advance of the event having been planned.

I suspect the problem is that event organisers don't really have a reputation to protect. People book tickets for the act not the organiser or the venue. So any reputational damage for transport issues can be unfairly shifted onto someone else and have no impact on future bookings.
 

Horizon22

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Sympathy is limited - the timetable is pretty clear there are fewer trains towards London than from at that time of night.

And it's not exactly down to LNW to monitor what gigs are on at MK - it's hardly Wembley or the NEC.

Most TOCs have event planning teams and yes, they do monitor big events on their network and categorise them accordingly. Sometimes however there is only so much to be done; if there's no good relationship with the venue or the event operator, it becomes difficult to handle. Whether LNWR had a) considered the possibity of introducing specials and b) if they had done a), being actually able to have the resources to introduce them.

I have heard from social media that all sorts of elements of this gig were a disaster from a logistical perspective, not just the transport provision.
 

GordonT

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I suspect the problem is that event organisers don't really have a reputation to protect. People book tickets for the act not the organiser or the venue. So any reputational damagefor transport issues can be unfairly shifted onto someone else and have no impact on future bookings.
That and the fact that they already have their money so will not perceive a huge incentive to grasp any homeward travel nettles with associated huge costs dangling from them.
 

Class 170101

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No, if anything I'm saying the event organisers are irresponsible for timing their event such that it ends when there is only one train back - and the timetable set for ~26 weeks is published and available.
Except you forget about engineering works which are now notified to the public at T-8 Weeks or less due to covid 19 related issues. Even with the official standard which is T-12 Weeks notice for punters this is insufficient if you are planning to go to a concert where tickets are released 12 to 18 months ahead.

If they'd started their event an hour earlier it wouldn't have been an issue.
There is an argument for this but why is it an industry standard in the music business to start concerts at 19:30 or later?

Expecting a TOC to conjure up extra trains on a Saturday evening is unreasonable - the train crew will likely be working overtime - so who picks up the bill? Perhaps the concert organisers should charter trains and coaches and foot the bill for those ?
I disagree with you and with the future of the railway being the discretionary market rather than the commuter market it will need to have the flexibility to cope with this going forward.

Then what you're saying is that it's irresponsible for any individual to rely on using the train after an event like this. Because there's no way for people as individuals to know how many others have made the same travel choice they have.

TOC's and LU routinely monitor large events on their patch and adjust services where appropriate, and of course possible.

IMO it's very much up to event organisers and transport providers to work together. That could include curfews on event finish times as people have suggested above, extra trains or provision of coaches. Maybe it's time concert organisers collected information about how people are getting there as part of the booking process? Have rail travel or parking as an add on to the ticket so they've got a good idea how many people are using each route maybe?
I think it is very much for the operators to plan for services to be available if it can be done and as you say work together. Interms of travel and parking the operators can get hold of postcode data as to where people are coming from but its only a guide.

It sounds as if LNW control made the best of a bad situation on the night. But if it could be done on the night it begs the question of why plans weren't made earlier.
It wouldn't surprise me if the train crew were offered 12hrs(+) by Control to take the train (2Z05 as referred) back to Euston as a Special. Train Planners can only create diagrams upto 10hrs in length nevermind a myriad of other conditions they have to work to where diagrams are concerned.
 

Horizon22

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One example I can think of that is good planning is Chiltern, even today with a Non-League final at Wembley they still have extra services in operation

Chiltern have historically been very good about this sort of thing, having Wembley on their doorstep and a two-track railway means they need to be prepared.
 

flitwickbeds

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Even though Milton Keynes is about to get city status, I think it's unlikely to have thousands of hotel rooms any time soon.
1. It now IS a city.
2. It's well known as a hub for corporate events and conferences, there are plenty of hotels.
 
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