Leigh rejoining the railnetwork

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by Trevor, 24 Nov 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Trevor

    Trevor Member

    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    14 Dec 2009
    Location:
    Leigh, Lancs
    The extract below is from the Transport for Leigh's website, which shows all interested parties are now at least trying to get the largest town in the north of England without a station back on the rail map.


    "Crunch talks organised by and Chaired by Leigh MP Andy Burnham ended with a unanimous will to find a way to get Leigh reconnected to the railway network using some form of connection to the soon to be electrified Manchester - Liverpool line.

    In a full chamber at Leigh town hall, senior representatives from Network Rail, TfGM, Transport for Leigh, Wigan Council (including Lord Peter Smith), Greater Manchester Chamber and local mover and shaker Trevor Barton OBE.

    Transport For Leigh opened the proceedings with a 5-point benefits presentation using all the data and detail gathered from it's presently 18-months campaign. TFL ended by posing to the group that there would be challenges and hurdles but that they were there to work with others to overcome see challenges and bring the most vital facility to the town for the next 10 years and beyond.....TfGM representative and COO, Bob Morris backed this up by outlining the intent to work hard to get the terms of reference right to give a feasibility study the best possible chance of success. He expects this work to be completed by November this year, thus allowing for a full and proper study to commence after this point.

    Jo Kaye, MD of the West Cost Mainline for Network Rail, confirmed that while Network Rail have their views on any schemes, they are actively interested in assisting with any potentially successful scheme and offered their full assistance in the process, the nuts and bolts of which would be worked out between TfGM technical staff and Graham Botham, the Programme Sponsor for the Northern Hub Project for Network Rail."
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. Holly

    Holly Member

    Messages:
    783
    Joined:
    20 May 2011
    A totally new parkway station, a mile or two from Leigh off the East-Lancs road on that "soon to be electrified Manchester - Liverpool line" would be a lot cheaper and better.
     
  4. gordonthemoron

    gordonthemoron Established Member

    Messages:
    5,701
    Joined:
    4 Sep 2006
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    they could get some of the First Ftr pretend trams
     
  5. Phil6219

    Phil6219 Member

    Messages:
    578
    Joined:
    15 Jul 2011
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Great news.

    If they built a station on the existing line then the two closest locations to Leigh would be at Glazebury (still a few miles away though) or close to Leigh Golf Club which is practically in Culcheth and again is a bit of a distance. However an idea perhaps would be to run a line off at Glazebury and send it North West but to the south of Pennington Flash (a country park and lake) and let the line join up to the WCML near Platt Bridge.

    Another idea would be to run a line up again from Glazebury and due north into Leigh itself, the only drawback here being it would have to be a terminus as there would be no way to get a railway across the town centre these days. Well actually you could to be honest but it would be very costly and require taking a good number of houses (run just to the west of the Sewage works, perhaps use the existing old railway arches to get by the Travis Perkins yard and follow the old railway route out from by the bowling club, this however would leave the line heading North East.

    I think a through station would be better as it can see a good frequency of trains whereas a terminus station would probably see only a small number of trains (unless they worked it like the Manchester - Crewe hourly services via the airport).

    I don't know as I'm getting well ahead of myself here, anyway as I said earlier that is great news I just hope they get something worked out.

    Phil 8-)
     
  6. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

    Messages:
    3,582
    Joined:
    22 Apr 2010
    Some questions.
    Has TfGM dropped its silly Leigh Busway proposal ?
    Although not connected to the (being electrified) Chat Moss route, would it be physically easier and / or cheaper to have a connection from Leigh via Tyldesley & former NCB trackbeds to somewhere near Walkden on the Manchester - Atherton line ?
     
  7. table38

    table38 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,812
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2010
    Location:
    Stalybridge
    A rail-link bus would be "some form of connection" :(

    Maybe to a re-instated Kenyon Junction station!
     
  8. Phil6219

    Phil6219 Member

    Messages:
    578
    Joined:
    15 Jul 2011
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Sadly no, the previous government basically signed a juicy contract which would cost as much to back out of than to complete the project (or so I am told) either way the project is still going on though I must admit I haven't seen any construction lately. I live about 300ish feet away from the old Manchester and Wigan line (CL 1969) and supposedly a chunk of the busway will run along it but I haven't seen anything on the part near me though they tarmacked a section at the end of the old trackbed where it joins a main road.

    I would have thought this was a better option to do and always envisaged it would be the one to get the go ahead as it would make accessing Leigh town centre possible and much simpler than my previous suggestions a few posts above. Perhaps though since the Atherton line isn't getting knitted they see that as a weaker option?

    Phil 8-)
     
  9. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

    Messages:
    17,777
    Joined:
    6 Aug 2009
    Location:
    Yorks
    Why?

    It would still require a bus journey from the station and would be no better than getting the bus from Atherton.
     
  10. Nym

    Nym Established Member

    Messages:
    8,032
    Joined:
    2 Mar 2007
    Location:
    Somewhere, not in London
    If you do a quick forum search you'll find my opinion on this...

    If you're going off the chat moss, put it ON the chat moss, branching off it is going to be too much of an issue, and if there are services from there, that pushes the tph over that route up to 10+tph, it will definitely need grade separation at Ordstall Lane and platforms on the exchange campus, for 2tph, it's also on the outskirts of Leigh, not useful as it's still nowhere near the bus station.

    It needs to go in from Walkden and park up either in the industrial land, or in the car park on the opersite side of the shopping centre to the bus station, put it there and everyone can use the damn thing and it will become a railhead again, it will also link Tyldsley back up again.

    In addition to this Leigh CC Station there should be a parkway station on the Chat Moss with the 2tph to Wigan and 2tph to Liverpool slows calling there on their way to Victoria.

    Final point re-enforcement, BRANCH OF CHAT MOSS = STUPID!
     
  11. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

    Messages:
    8,933
    Joined:
    25 Feb 2010
    The Tfl campaign itself admits after seeing the paperwork that it has a good business case and needs to happen in addition to a rail connection as they would serve different markets.

    As to work, main works not started they did construct the road junctions so as to break ground and stop planning permmision lapsing , theyve also completed the land purchases which came in under budget, however their waiting on the sister project, the Cross City Bus recieving funding approval. While the new Governments approved the Leigh scheme (though it isnt providing funding directly) they axed the money for its sister scheme as part of the cuts so TfGM made a bid to the Regional Growth Fund instead, it didnt win round one funding so theyve resubmitted it for round two after adjusting its economics (basically transferring 800m of road construction from Cross City to Leigh Guided bus) so that on paper the business case is stronger as their providing a greater local contribution.
     
  12. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

    Messages:
    17,777
    Joined:
    6 Aug 2009
    Location:
    Yorks
    Still not convinced as practically every other urban area in the Country manages to survive without a guided busway. I have spent much time in Leigh and I have not seen anything to suggest that it is remarkably different from all the other towns in the country which survive with trains using railways and buses using roads.

    The only thing that makes Leigh so different from other similar towns as to justify a busway is the absence of a railway.
     
  13. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

    Messages:
    8,933
    Joined:
    25 Feb 2010
    Absence of railway and the fact it has the most congested roads outside of the city centre. You know it takes longer to travel the 7 miles from Wigan to Leigh than it does the 11 miles to Manchester. This will also take bus traffic off the East Lancs with the additional lane being built.
     
  14. Nym

    Nym Established Member

    Messages:
    8,032
    Joined:
    2 Mar 2007
    Location:
    Somewhere, not in London
    Or you could just reverse the stupid downgrading of the East Lancs from what was effectively the first motorway in the country, to a kakky lil D2 semi AP with Roundabouts and Traffic Lights, if it where a D3AP road, buses could use it in the peaks, wider points with bus lanes would work fine. And bring benifit to motorists too...
     
  15. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

    Messages:
    24,554
    Joined:
    17 Apr 2011
    Location:
    The most select part of rural Cheshire East.
    With regard to bus travel, Leigh bus station does serve quite a reasonable part of the area around Leigh with good local bus transport links (e.g. Higher Folds) and has bus connections with Bolton, Wigan, Warrington and St Helens. However, there has been some disquiet with the existing bus service provision to Manchester, which the proposed train service re-instatement would address. The previous thread on the Leigh area transport proposals on this forum had covered many points of disquiet such as the guided busway and discussions with concern to the best siting of a station near enough to the town centre, for the ease of access of local residents.
     
  16. Trevor

    Trevor Member

    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    14 Dec 2009
    Location:
    Leigh, Lancs
    There has been so much made of the lack of rail links in the town over the years. In fact the reporter on the local paper said there was a better chance of a rail link to the Isle of Man! However, a determined campaigning by the TfL group has made the authorities consider this plan seriously, with a spur from the Manchester to Liverpool line up to the Fire Station close to Pennington Flash and close to the new Sports Village. What has made the difference has been Stobbart Rail's willingness to come out and do a prelimenary study on behalf of the campaigners. So realistic figures can be presented to the relevant parties. The crazy busway scheme so unloved by Leigh people, is going ahead, which is more expensive than the proposed rail scheme!
     
  17. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

    Messages:
    17,777
    Joined:
    6 Aug 2009
    Location:
    Yorks
    The most congested roads outside of the Centre are probably at least in part due to the lack of a rail link. Alas I fear that the guided busway will have little effect on the Leigh-Wigan stretch
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    You have to marvel at their determination to throw money at this sort of thing. The sad thing is, the route through Tydesley could potentially get trains a lot nearer to the town than Leigh Sports Village, which is a fair old trek.
     
  18. Holly

    Holly Member

    Messages:
    783
    Joined:
    20 May 2011
    Not for everyone.

    A new design parkway station would attract much of its traffic by private car; those who park there and those dropped off by family members.

    With proper secure weatherproof bicycle, moped and motorcycle storage those modes would be attracted too. A manned railway station, a convenience store, a post office, a cafe and multiple bus stops would go a long way to fill in the gaps. Even a cab rank if someone wants to operate an unsubsidised (beyond providing parking space) service.

    No matter where you site the station, even in an expensive city-centre location, only a limited number of people will consider themselves within practical walking distance.
    Making bicycling a feasible and green option by providing proper facilities for it would again be much cheaper out of town and two or three miles by bicycle is entirely reasonable for the younger population.
    Not a perfect solution but a relatively cheap brown fields solution that benefits a good sized catchment area. A new parkway station gives much more bang for the buck than building a transport link on an expensive right of way.
     
  19. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

    Messages:
    17,777
    Joined:
    6 Aug 2009
    Location:
    Yorks
    Well, it might be cheaper, but I doubt very much that it would be better. The currently proposed spur to the Sports village isn't ideal, but at least it would be in walking distance of the town. Don't forget - the railway needs to attract visitors to the town rather than just dispatch them.
     
  20. Nym

    Nym Established Member

    Messages:
    8,032
    Joined:
    2 Mar 2007
    Location:
    Somewhere, not in London
    Sorry, but the sports village isn't within walking distance of Leigh town centre... and thats coming from somone who walked from Bolton to Atherton to Wigan and back... for fun...
     
  21. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

    Messages:
    17,777
    Joined:
    6 Aug 2009
    Location:
    Yorks
    I've walked between the town centre and the sports village loads of times !
     
  22. Nym

    Nym Established Member

    Messages:
    8,032
    Joined:
    2 Mar 2007
    Location:
    Somewhere, not in London
    Walking distance for young and/or fit people yes, but day tripping over 60s (that are the only users of public transport that have money and time for days out) walking from the Sports Village to Town Centre is a long way, they'd use it a lot more if it went a lot closer to the t/c on the route from Tyldsley.
     
  23. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

    Messages:
    17,777
    Joined:
    6 Aug 2009
    Location:
    Yorks
    Now that I have to agree with.
     
  24. Nym

    Nym Established Member

    Messages:
    8,032
    Joined:
    2 Mar 2007
    Location:
    Somewhere, not in London
    Indeed, some of us don't see walking 15+ miles/day as a lot...
     
  25. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

    Messages:
    17,777
    Joined:
    6 Aug 2009
    Location:
    Yorks
    I used to do that regularly in the Scouts - but it would be a bit much for the daily commute :lol:
     
  26. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

    Messages:
    24,554
    Joined:
    17 Apr 2011
    Location:
    The most select part of rural Cheshire East.
    I am pleased to see some semblance of reality is now entering into the discussion here. I agree that many old people would not find the prospect of a long walk after the use of public transport at all amusing. Public transport should have good connectional services to the town centre and earlier in this thread, I stated that Leigh bus station offers quite good local transport links (e.g. Higher Folds) and direct services to Bolton, Wigan, Warrington and St Helens for those without the use of a car.
     
  27. lancastrian

    lancastrian Member

    Messages:
    474
    Joined:
    2 Jan 2010
    Location:
    Bolton, Lancashire
    We have discussed this a few times before and we have always come to the same conclusions. Yes Leigh needs to have a railway connection and that the proposed guided busway is a really daft idea. With the forthcoming Lancashire Electrification that is now happening, I refer you all to a post I made back in December 2010.

    "The simplest and cheapest, would be to reopen Kenyon Junction stataion as Leigh Parkway, the location is very clear of clutter, plus come 2015 it will be on an electrified line to both Manchester & Liverpool. The old siding space is large enough for a decent car park, all it needs to make it easy to get to Leigh, is for the Atherleigh Way extension, the Lowton St. Mary's bypas is extended along the remaining old track bed from where it meets the East Lancs Road, to where it meets the B5207 Wilton Lane, with an access to the new Car Park just before it crosses the railway line at Broseley Bridge."

    My opinion about this has not changed and it is still the quickest and cheapest option to get Leigh conected back to the railway. Any othe roption including planned routes back into Leigh would cost to much for any Government, especially as this is in the North of England and not in the South East. They need to stop meesing about and get this done while the electrification is happening, so that no extra possessions are needed to complete a Leigh Parkway Station.
     
  28. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

    Messages:
    17,777
    Joined:
    6 Aug 2009
    Location:
    Yorks
    Kenyon Junction's miles away though. It may be fine for those who drive but not for pedestrians.
     
  29. lancastrian

    lancastrian Member

    Messages:
    474
    Joined:
    2 Jan 2010
    Location:
    Bolton, Lancashire
    It is about four miles from Leigh, if they build the new road I was talking about, also it would be of benefit for peoplw who live in Culcheth to get out to the East Lancs Road. There could be buses to get you to the station.

    The problem as I see it often is that to drive from Leigh to either Manchester or Liverpool is a real problem, simply due to the traffic along the East Lancs Road in either direction. The guided busway will give a very slight benefit, in that the buses will get to the massive traffic jams from about where the M60 is into the centre of Manchester slightly quicker.

    When I worked in Manchester. After 7.00am if I left home in Bolton, driving I was lucky to get to work in Knott Mill before 8.30am, if I left later than 7.15am any arrival before 9.00am was out completely. I used to walk 2 miles to Bolton Station, leaving home at 7.30am, catch a train at 8.00am and be in work by 8.25am (I worked 2 minutes from Deansgate & Knott Mill Station).

    Now if I have to travel to Manchester, I drive 3 miles to Horwich Parkway (which is about 2 miles from Horwich actually) park for free and catch the train. Much better and cheaper than driving into Manchester and trying to find a parking place.

    I would think that most people in Leigh, given the choice of continuing to catch a bus or driving to either Manchester or Liverpool, would be happier with a fast, effiecent train service from a Leigh Parkway Station. I know that I would.

    Just my views.
     
  30. telstarbox

    telstarbox Established Member

    Messages:
    4,237
    Joined:
    23 Jul 2010
    Location:
    Wennington Crossovers
    I know we love trains on here but there are merits to the busway too. It'll serve some of the poorest places in the UK and give them direct connections to Manchester city centre (for jobs), Salford and Manchester unis (for education) and the MRI (for health).

    Furthermore, installing the busway now doesn't mean it couldn't become a Metrolink or rail line in the future!

    See slides 9 and 10 of http://www.brtuk.org/downloads/BRTSymposiumUniversityofWarwick6-7thDecemberPresentations_09.pdf
     
  31. Nym

    Nym Established Member

    Messages:
    8,032
    Joined:
    2 Mar 2007
    Location:
    Somewhere, not in London
    SO the busway that will use the A580 one of the most congested routes into Manchester is a good idea?

    And name a goverment that will backstep from a £170mil busway, spending £190mil+ to install a railway that would have cost £190mil to do right in the first place.

    And Leigh already has direct links to Manchester by bus...
    And Salford by bus...

    And to extend a bus service from Piccadilly / St Anne's onto MRI wouldn't be any hassle at all...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page