LM Service misses stop

[Ben]

what do you base that possible scenario on? i suspect you made it up!

An informed observation my dear friend.

 

[asylumxl]

The train traveled 5 miles further. Wow. Important.

I doubt he'll get in trouble.

 

[Metroland]

Despite you threatening to do so on a now locked thread........

Naming names on a public forum is an entirely different thing to contacting someone's manager for bringing their company into disrepute online. Your doing that all by yourself, I don't need to do a thing.

 

[robertclark125]

This happened once before on a NXEC service, though I believe in GNER days, where a train didn't stop at Durham, simply because the driver had been given the wrong schedule card. Perhaps that factor could've caused this error.

 

[ungreat]

Naming names on a public forum is an entirely different thing to contacting someone's manager for bringing their company into disrepute online. Your doing that all by yourself, I don't need to do a thing.

Hmmm...I believe you were going to contact newspapers and management in regard to staff attitudes to strikes and comments about such on here...I see no comments made by any member of staff on here bringing their company into disrepute.What I saw was staff defending their conditions of service,or lack of them for some staff.However,I DID see a threat by yourself to do exactly what you allege staff already do.

Sorry for dragging it off topic

 

[Metroland]

Oh do give it a rest, I used to put your sort in loops and leave them there...

 

[dan_atki]

Oh do give it a rest, I used to put your sort in loops and leave them there...

Please don't make me get my keys out again - any more of this and there will be infractions for the pair of you.

 

[ungreat]

Please don't make me get my keys out again - any more of this and there will be infractions for the pair of you.

Fair enough,but the guy is making comments about stuff he sees on simulations/reads in the Daily Mail/Sun and not what we see in real life every day.Its hard enough doing the job and the **** thats comes with it without having to read comments most every day that slag us off for standing up for our hard won conditions that we hang onto by a thread.I understand where he thinks he's coming from but if it were possible,I would dearly love to get the detractors on here to accompany a driver for a week or two on some crap shifts and then get their honest opinion!

Ban me if you like,but I refuse to be spoken to by someone whose head is so far up his khyber pass that he can taste his dinner twice.

 

[dan_atki]

Fair enough,but the guy is making comments about stuff he sees on simulations/reads in the Daily Mail/Sun and not what we see in real life every day.Its hard enough doing the job and the **** thats comes with it without having to read comments most every day that slag us off for standing up for our hard won conditions that we hang onto by a thread.I understand where he thinks he's coming from but if it were possible,I would dearly love to get the detractors on here to accompany a driver for a week or two on some crap shifts and then get their honest opinion!

Ban me if you like,but I refuse to be spoken to by someone whose head is so far up his khyber pass that he can taste his dinner twice.

And you posted this here rather than PM me because? Oh you wanted him to read the comment as well to provoke an angry response...

You're both as bad as each other antagonising the other for an argument - this stops here. Any further discussion/mediation via PM please.

Now, back on topic please.

 

[ungreat]

Not at all..I wanted no response...I can't help how I feel about constant attacks..a hotheaded post for which I apologise to you for posting.Check your PM

 

[Metroland]

Fair enough,but the guy is making comments about stuff he sees on simulations/reads in the Daily Mail/Sun and not what we see in real life every day..

Serious question? do you really believe that. If you do, your in for a big shock if you really want me to prove it to you, but I won't do it in public for reasons you will see, although there are plenty on this forum that can vouch that is not the case. But yes, I've been in plenty of driving cabs and not once have I said it was 'easy', or drivers didn't deserve what they were getting. I have said, if you look at the big picture, especially with the incoming government, winding up the public is a really bad idea at the moment. And not only do i blame the unions, I blame a weak government who gets lots of money from the unions and I blame weak management.

I'm also fed up of the constant attacks over just trying to debate an important point. To make life easier, I shall find another forum to post on, there are plenty to choose from, I really don't need the hassle.

 

[O L Leigh]

But you can never tell when and where the next download will come from so it would be so foolish to "reset and go".

No indeed you can't.

However, without wishing to give too much away, you can be fairly sure that unless you give cause for a manager to download your train, it is extremely unlikely that you will be caught out by routine monitoring because of the frequency of the downloads and the scrutiny the data will receive.

It will invariably be picked up anyway as the train would be seen to be stopping out of course.

It certainly wouldn't be spotted stopping out of course at a terminus station, which is the scenario I've outlined.

O L Leigh

 

[Guard]

i think the argument is this. the incident could still be investigated. managers could be swayed by what you post meaning the driver may not get a fair hearing. maybes not in this instance but in others. secondly everyone of you that has said its ok to name and shame the driver.
from nwo on in every little mistake you make will be publicy mentioned on this forum....dont like it....welll what about the driver?

 

[Pumbaa]

I'd be happy for any mistake I made at work to be commented on in one of the forums I frequent as part of my profession. It's still my job at the end of day, and whilst I may still make mistakes I don't expect everyone to have shush about it incase other colleagues, managers etc get arsey.

 

[ukrob]

i think the argument is this. the incident could still be investigated. managers could be swayed by what you post meaning the driver may not get a fair hearing.

I don't recall anything in the thread that would mean the driver might not get get a fair hearing or would sway anything one way or the other.

maybes not in this instance but in others. secondly everyone of you that has said its ok to name and shame the driver.
from nwo on in every little mistake you make will be publicy mentioned on this forum....dont like it....welll what about the driver?

That is quite a childish comment.

If I make a mistake at work it wouldn't, for example, make people late for work or cause general inconvenience. A driver is a safety critical role and the general public do not expect them to make any (noticeable) mistakes. Rightly or wrongly, that is the way it is.

Certain people make me feel like I need a disclaimer (which is a shocking state of affairs) so here it is: I don't agree with putting the time of the service in public, tell the TOC directly. I know it may have not actually been driver error if he had the wrong schedule card etc etc etc.

 

[O L Leigh]

I'd be happy for any mistake I made at work to be commented on in one of the forums I frequent as part of my profession. It's still my job at the end of day, and whilst I may still make mistakes I don't expect everyone to have shush about it incase other colleagues, managers etc get arsey.

Mind you, what happens at your place of work if you make a mistake? Could you lose your job over it?

The rail industry is very intolerant of mistakes, and rightly so where safety is at stake. However, there is a line of thought that a "fail to call" or suchlike isn't really a biggie because no-one's safety has been put at risk. It's merely an inconvenience. Then again, that does oversimplify matters slightly as the figures show that a driver with two or more "fail to calls" is more likely to go on to have a SPAD than a driver with none.

But to get to the point I really want to make, drivers are expected to perform faultlessly from the moment they qualify until the moment they leave the industry through retirement or whatever. Apart from surgeons, I can't think of many other jobs that have the same expectation with regard to performance. Unlike our managers, making a mistakes doesn't mean just hitting the "delete" key or reaching for the Tippex. It means a chat over "tea and biscuits" with the bosses, a permanent record of the incident against our name, an action plan with additional monitoring, vastly reduced chances of advancement within the driving grade and equally vastly reduced chances of being taken on by another company, and being moved just that little bit closer to the door in preparation to being pushed out of it. It doesn't matter if that was just one mistake in a 25 year career that happened 15 years ago, it's still going to be there in black and white against you.

Mistakes can and do happen, even to the most careful driver. But make one and it will stay with you for the rest of your career no matter what you did before and after. It is an indelible stain on your record.

So tell me. What is the consequence of making a mistake where you work?

O L Leigh

 

[Pumbaa]

Mistakes can and do happen, even to the most careful driver. But make one and it will stay with you for the rest of your career no matter what you did before and after. It is an indelible stain on your record.

True of many careers.

I am currently a stage manager for a large theatre operating group. Whilst I am not responsible for the safety of loads of people constantly throughout the day, I am responsible for the safety of performers and audience alike, and the industry considers it to be the most safety critical job.

I could lose my job if I wasn't being particularly careful one day - others have.

Nonetheless, I still feel that as a professional in whatever you do, you should consider it as part of the job that people will pick up on and berate you for your mistakes. An overrun, a miss-cue on stage, a SPAD, a bad evacuation of a theatre during a fire. I don't have a problem with people pointing it out, as management would be on my arse pretty quickly regardless of the flaw, as everything is logged, double logged and checked through meticulously afterwards and there is still no excuse for making mistakes if you consider yourself properly trained and professional enough for your job.

 

[O L Leigh]

Nonetheless, I still feel that as a professional in whatever you do, you should consider it as part of the job that people will pick up on and berate you for your mistakes. An overrun, a miss-cue on stage, a SPAD, a bad evacuation of a theatre during a fire. I don't have a problem with people pointing it out, as management would be on my arse pretty quickly regardless of the flaw, as everything is logged, double logged and checked through meticulously afterwards and there is still no excuse for making mistakes if you consider yourself properly trained and professional enough for your job.

I don't disagree with that, and I don't think you will find many drivers who do.

I just don't believe that many people outside the industry (many enthusiasts included) understand just how tough it can be on the drivers. It's easy to quip that "mistakes happen" and that the driver is "only human", but I don't think many understand just what a massive impact even the most innocuous and genuine mistake can have on a driver's career.

O L Leigh

 

[yorkie]

i think the argument is this. the incident could still be investigated. managers could be swayed by what you post meaning the driver may not get a fair hearing.

Do you honestly think that? Do you have any basis for this?

I'd like to hear Ben's basis for the same basic statement.

It can't possibly be true. If any managers read this, and then look up if the incident was logged and find it was, they are hardly going to say the driver should be treated more harshly based on the fact a passenger mentioned the overrun! The idea is quite proposterous!

While I would not agree at all with the drivers name being posted on a forum, or in any way blamed (as we do not know it was the drivers fault), I do not see anything wrong with a member of the public reporting the fact that his train failed to call at a station. The only risk here is if the driver has failed to report it. There is no risk of a driver being treated more harshly by managers, having already reported it, just because a passenger mentioned it!!

maybes not in this instance but in others.

In any instance when the driver reported it? I highly doubt it.

secondly everyone of you that has said its ok to name and shame the driver.

I don't think anyone has said the driver should be named, and I am certain no-one has said the driver should feel any shame, and no-one has stated it was the drivers fault.

from nwo on in every little mistake you make will be publicy mentioned on this forum....dont like it....welll what about the driver?

If someone makes a mistake that results in members of the public being inconvenienced, then they can expect that it may well be the case that members of the public mention it and discuss it.

This topic has only become so large because people wanted it to be hushed up, but I am pretty certain that the driver did act perfectly correctly and reported it at Bushey, so it's a non-issue.

The driver has not been named or in any way blamed.

 

[O L Leigh]

While no-one has "named" the driver or called for him to be identified, the fact that the OP (in all innocence) identified the specific service concerned means that, as far as that driver's management is concerned, the OP might as well have posted his name.

As regards reporting such an incident, I will stoop to repetition and state that such reports should be made directly to the TOC concerned and not on a public internet forum. This is not "covering up" but ensuring that the correct procedures can be put into action.

O L Leigh

 

[Kneedown]

Unlike our managers, making a mistakes doesn't mean just hitting the "delete" key or reaching for the Tippex. It means a chat over "tea and biscuits" with the bosses.

O L Leigh

You're lucky, you get biscuits!

Upon my request one of the Mod's has very kindly agreed to edit the OP to remove any possibility of the Driver being id'd. The incident may well have been reported, but there is always the possibility it wasn't and i'm sure he's got a big enough lump in his throat about it without worrying further about the incident being splashed all over the tintertet.

There have been many threads on this forum complaining about the lack of co-operation, and in some cases hosility from rail staff to enthusiasts. Is it any wonder why, when enthusiasts are potentially dropping staff in the brown stuff like this?

 

[Ferret]

There have been many threads on this forum complaining about the lack of co-operation, and in some cases hosility from rail staff to enthusiasts. Is it any wonder why, when enthusiasts are potentially dropping staff in the brown stuff like this?

Am I missing something here? As rail staff myself I can't see how this thread can possibly be dropping somebody in it. As has already been explained ad nauseum, TRUST/CCF etc would have already flagged the incident up and the driver would've reported it himself anyway!!!!

 

[Kneedown]

Am I missing something here? As rail staff myself I can't see how this thread can possibly be dropping somebody in it. As has already been explained ad nauseum, TRUST/CCF etc would have already flagged the incident up and the driver would've reported it himself anyway!!!!

TRUST might not neccessarily have flagged it up, and the Driver might not neccessarily have reported himself!
Ok, so he should technically have, but he might not have, and it's not up to anyone here to do so.
I had an FTC a few years ago. I reported myself and the response i got from a manager when interviewed (tea, but no biscuits!) was that i should've kept my mouth shut as no-one would've been any the wiser!
I don't think it'll make a lot of difference to the outcome if you report yourself or not, but if you LIE, ie deny overshooting when you did, thats when you WILL be in the smelly stuff.

 

[bluenoxid]

Do you honestly think that? Do you have any basis for this?

I'd like to hear Ben's basis for the same basic statement.

It can't possibly be true. If any managers read this, and then look up if the incident was logged and find it was, they are hardly going to say the driver should be treated more harshly based on the fact a passenger mentioned the overrun! The idea is quite proposterous!

While I would not agree at all with the drivers name being posted on a forum, or in any way blamed (as we do not know it was the drivers fault), I do not see anything wrong with a member of the public reporting the fact that his train failed to call at a station. The only risk here is if the driver has failed to report it. There is no risk of a driver being treated more harshly by managers, having already reported it, just because a passenger mentioned it!!

In any instance when the driver reported it? I highly doubt it.

I don't think anyone has said the driver should be named, and I am certain no-one has said the driver should feel any shame, and no-one has stated it was the drivers fault.

If someone makes a mistake that results in members of the public being inconvenienced, then they can expect that it may well be the case that members of the public mention it and discuss it.

This topic has only become so large because people wanted it to be hushed up, but I am pretty certain that the driver did act perfectly correctly and reported it at Bushey, so it's a non-issue.

The driver has not been named or in any way blamed.

I think Guard (and others) is referring to the idle speculation that regularly comes from threads such as this about the whys and wherefores. Whilst I have not got the time nor inclination to view all the posts, I don't feel that this thread has crossed that line.

If Guard is who I think he is, I am pretty sure that he has experience of what poorly informed lemmings drawing the wrong conclusions on certain events causing needless grief from the management.

The staff are trying through their good intentions to close the discussion of the event down. After all, you don't know what happened or what was going on and in some cases no parties come out of incidents smelling or roses.

 

[O L Leigh]

You're lucky, you get biscuits!

Not so. Sometimes we don't even get the tea.

I use the phrase "tea and biscuits" deliberately in quotation marks to denote that it is just a euphemism. There is no tea and certainly no biscuits. However, there is still the cosy chat.

O L Leigh

 

[adc82140]

But does the driver get a cosy apology from management if it is found not to be his/her fault? A FTC on a FGW service I was on recently was found to be down to an incorrect route card being issued.

 

[Death]

LM Service misses stop

Looks like it's not just LM who miss the odd stop here and there...There appears to be a little bit of punctuation missing from the title of this thread! :razz:

Incidentally, I heard that someone was kicked out of LM's Archery club recently. Could there be a connection?...
Note: The latter is intended as a joke only, and AFAIK there is no LM Archery Club anyway!

 

[yorkie]

Looks like it's not just LM who miss the odd stop here and there...There appears to be a little bit of punctuation missing from the title of this thread! :razz:

Full stops are not supposed to appear at the end of titles.

This story was also picked up on the uk.railway newsgroup (Reply to 'Omitted stops' posted by Andy on 9 Sept). The service is mentioned there and no-one said it should be hushed up.

 

[movilla]

Interesting discussion. I'm also bemused that the train missed H&W but actually stopped at Bushey. Usually it's the other way around.

Living in Bushey, I've no choice but to get a ticket that covers Watford-zone1. Leaving aside the fact that often at weekends, bank holidays, late in the evening, etc trains are scheduled not to stop at Bushey and I've no choice but to go from Euston to Watford and then get a taxi back to Watford, I've spotted times when the train has been scheduled to stop at Bushey and has missed it completely.

On Monday 31 August, coming back from Paris, I checked the NR iphone app for live trains going from Euston and was pleased to see it stopped at Bushey (19:04?). I raced from St Pancras and made the train with minutes to spare. I'm sure the board also said the train was stopping at Bushey but now I'm starting to doubt myself since I never took a photo of the board. As per usual, I had to get a taxi back from Watford.

I'd love to know if there is a definitive source of train stop points that is available to the public.

 

[Pumbaa]

Usually the xx04 and xx34 from Euston all stop at Bushey until you get to the silly hours.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
These services also typically stop at Harrow too. It's the xx54 and xx24 that run non-stop to Watford.