LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

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theironroad

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Well finally got on an lner one of these today and I do wonder if the people who design, approve, test and sign off stuff ever actually use their product.

The seat - yep you've guessed it, cushion depth isnt adequate at all. I only did edb to NCL today phone and it felt very uncomfortable (standard)and also the way the seats are now fixed. Sitting by the window it's hard to get a foot width (least for me) between the stanchion and the side of the train. Previously, the seats were affixed into the wall and only one one stanchion at the aisle side so plenty of foot room for both passengers.

From York to kgx I was on an old MK4 and the seat cushion and legroom was a massive difference.

The azumas seem to have a lot brighter lighting inside too, not absolutely terrible but could be a bit dimmer .

Didn't move from seat so only a brief experience and ride quality etc seemed ok to me.

Only other gripe is that lner seem to have abandoned publishing non reservable seats so rather than knowing exactly where to head for, it's a case of walking through looking for green lights once the reservations have downloaded.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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One thing that does my head in on Azumas and also GWR IETs is the obvious issue with the announcement system that’s like

Hello and welcome aboard this LNER Azuma to Leeds! (LONG PAUSE) Calling at Wakefield Westgate and Leeds. (LONG PAUSE) The next station is Wakefield Westgate. (LONG PAUSE) CCTV is in use etc...

The pauses are so annoying and unnecessary and it’s exactly the same on Great Western Railway IETs.
 

samuelmorris

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Well finally got on an lner one of these today and I do wonder if the people who design, approve, test and sign off stuff ever actually use their product.

The seat - yep you've guessed it, cushion depth isnt adequate at all. I only did edb to NCL today phone and it felt very uncomfortable (standard)and also the way the seats are now fixed. Sitting by the window it's hard to get a foot width (least for me) between the stanchion and the side of the train. Previously, the seats were affixed into the wall and only one one stanchion at the aisle side so plenty of foot room for both passengers.

From York to kgx I was on an old MK4 and the seat cushion and legroom was a massive difference.

The azumas seem to have a lot brighter lighting inside too, not absolutely terrible but could be a bit dimmer .

Didn't move from seat so only a brief experience and ride quality etc seemed ok to me.

Only other gripe is that lner seem to have abandoned publishing non reservable seats so rather than knowing exactly where to head for, it's a case of walking through looking for green lights once the reservations have downloaded.
Is there not still an unreserved area by the buffet?
 

theironroad

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Is there not still an unreserved area by the buffet?
I didnt check but maybe I will next time.

However , I had a conversation on twitter with lner about this a few weeks ago and today with a lner station assistant on the platform and both said there is no fixed area but that they are scattered throughout the train. The azuma pdf seating plans no longer show unreservable seats whereas the old pdf seating plan did. The Edinburgh guy said that there should still be a policy of 10% seats left unreserved.
 

Oxfordblues

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Today I travelled on three new Hitachi trains: TPE's Nova-1 Manchester Vic-Leeds, LNER's Azuma Leeds-King's Cross and GWR's IET Paddington-Oxford. All three were very impressive and I believe my fellow-passengers were equally impressed. There were minor quibbles about a few details but the overall experience was a serious leap forward in quality.
 

theironroad

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Today I travelled on three new Hitachi trains: TPE's Nova-1 Manchester Vic-Leeds, LNER's Azuma Leeds-King's Cross and GWR's IET Paddington-Oxford. All three were very impressive and I believe my fellow-passengers were equally impressed. There were minor quibbles about a few details but the overall experience was a serious leap forward in quality.
If you were in standard class, would you be happy with the seat comfortability for a 4.5hr journey?
 

Rob F

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Today I travelled on three new Hitachi trains: TPE's Nova-1 Manchester Vic-Leeds, LNER's Azuma Leeds-King's Cross and GWR's IET Paddington-Oxford. All three were very impressive and I believe my fellow-passengers were equally impressed. There were minor quibbles about a few details but the overall experience was a serious leap forward in quality.
I don't get this at all. The good things are that their are more seats (or should be if it is not short formed) and the leg room is generally good.

Other than that, the ride quality is not an improvement on what it is replacing and the seats are absolutely dire. I'm afraid I detect no leap forward in quality.
 

ashkeba

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I don't get this at all. The good things are that their are more seats (or should be if it is not short formed) and the leg room is generally good.

Other than that, the ride quality is not an improvement on what it is replacing and the seats are absolutely dire. I'm afraid I detect no leap forward in quality.
I don't know what they are replacing on Man Vic to Leeds but I remember doing Man Pic to Leeds on some sort of Pacer or Sprinter and Paddington to Oxford on a Thames Turbo so it could well seem like a great leap forward to the occasional visitor to those lines... and it is debatable whether it is better or worse than the horrible GWR refit of the HSTs, but I agree that even the harshest critic of older trains would not call the AT300s a big step up from the Intercity 225s that served Leeds - King's Cross for a long time.
 

ohgoditsjames

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I’m not one to complain about the seats however the complaint is quite rightly justified. It’s like sitting on a metal park bench, I really don’t understand the point of the padding as it doesn’t do anything. The seats on the new Stagecoach and First busses are much comfier, embarrassing for the rail industry to be outdone by busses tbh.
 

GrimShady

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I’m not one to complain about the seats however the complaint is quite rightly justified. It’s like sitting on a metal park bench, I really don’t understand the point of the padding as it doesn’t do anything. The seats on the new Stagecoach and First busses are much comfier, embarrassing for the rail industry to be outdone by busses tbh.
I was recently on First Bus in the Stirling area which had far superior seats to 800s. It's not just the seats, the whole interior is garbage, it's a marked downgrade in quality.
 

Jozhua

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I’m not one to complain about the seats however the complaint is quite rightly justified. It’s like sitting on a metal park bench, I really don’t understand the point of the padding as it doesn’t do anything. The seats on the new Stagecoach and First busses are much comfier, embarrassing for the rail industry to be outdone by busses tbh.
I'd argue they're less comfortable than park benches. At least with park benches you don't have an expectation of cushioning and the gaps give some of your body relief from the hard structure.

Honestly some seats like the TPE 185's would have been great. They're not the softest things ever, but they give enough cushioning to be comfortable for a couple of hours or have a nap as well as be thin enough to allow for more legroom, etc.
Iron boards are about a suitable name for them and sum up what they feel like. Honestly they're just as bad as those on Thameslink 700's so...

I don't perticularly like thick designs, like on Pandelinos and Voyagers and I'm not usually a stickler for softness (take half an inch extra legroom and a reasonably high headrest over soft cushioning), but the new seats take it too far the other way!
 

JonathanH

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I was recently on First Bus in the Stirling area which had far superior seats to 800s. It's not just the seats, the whole interior is garbage, it's a marked downgrade in quality.
Are you talking about these?

If so, I don't think they would get a very good reception if they were fitted in a train. They are very obviously bus seats and quite frankly they don't really have a better cushion than train seats do.
 

Journeyman

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If you were in standard class, would you be happy with the seat comfortability for a 4.5hr journey?
I'm now a regular on an Azuma-operated King's Cross to Edinburgh service, and yes, I find the seats to be comfortable enough for that journey. They're too hard, I won't dispute that, but the shape of them is very good, and I can get pretty comfortable. The legroom in airline seats is excellent, and there's plenty of room for my feet and a bag at floor level.
 

JohnMcL7

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This is a very long thread so apologies if it's discussed already, in the event of a failure how do they moved the failed 80x? Can the dellner equipped locos like the 57/3's haul them?
 

800001

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This is a very long thread so apologies if it's discussed already, in the event of a failure how do they moved the failed 80x? Can the dellner equipped locos like the 57/3's haul them?
Where possible will always attempt to rescue with another 800/801/802, if all else fails a rescue loco, using emergency coupling which is stored on the train.
 

GrimShady

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Are you talking about these?

If so, I don't think they would get a very good reception if they were fitted in a train. They are very obviously bus seats and quite frankly they don't really have a better cushion than train seats do.
That's the one yeah!

They are superior to anything fitted to Hitachi units or those equally as garbage ScotRail's 156 refurbs, even my better half made the same comment.
 
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ohgoditsjames

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Not that I’m blaming the units themselves but ever since the 800/801’s have been introduced to the Airedale line (2 weeks ago or
So?) the 6.37 am Shipley to KX has been late every single day without fail!
 

thejuggler

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Not that I’m blaming the units themselves but ever since the 800/801’s have been introduced to the Airedale line (2 weeks ago or
So?) the 6.37 am Shipley to KX has been late every single day without fail!
1 min early leaving Bradford, 3.5 min late leaving Shipley. Suggests a pathing or congestion issue. I know some colleagues are complaining as it has a knock on effect on the whole Airedale line at rush hour.
 

westv

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Have LNER made any comment about the seat comfort? They often ignore critical tweets so I can't imagine they'd be much on Twitter though.
 

Bantamzen

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1 min early leaving Bradford, 3.5 min late leaving Shipley. Suggests a pathing or congestion issue. I know some colleagues are complaining as it has a knock on effect on the whole Airedale line at rush hour.
I've caught a couple of these recently, and both times it has been when a 2*5 car formation has been working it, and the passengers being so used to shunting to the front of a MKIV set on P3, wanting to get the best run at the gateline at Leeds have been caught out by a First Class carriage being at the front. Although frankly a slightly late Azuma has been the least of the problems, don't get me started on the line treatment train this Autumn.... (but that's for another thread!)
 

LNW-GW Joint

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This is a very long thread so apologies if it's discussed already, in the event of a failure how do they moved the failed 80x? Can the dellner equipped locos like the 57/3's haul them?
Where possible will always attempt to rescue with another 800/801/802, if all else fails a rescue loco, using emergency coupling which is stored on the train.
In fact, yesterday a TPE 802 failed at Stalybridge, and the other 802 in TPE service was sent to rescue it and take it to Doncaster depot.
The rescue set then resumed its diagram later in the day, although the whole operation took 4+ hours.
 

nlogax

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Quick question as I can’t seem to find a definitive answer elsewhere; what’s the likelihood of Azumas running during Sunday afternoons on Edinburgh > KGX services, specifically this month? Thanks in advance.
 

swt_passenger

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Quick question as I can’t seem to find a definitive answer elsewhere; what’s the likelihood of Azumas running during Sunday afternoons on Edinburgh > KGX services, specifically this month? Thanks in advance.
The LNER journey planner will show you what is planned for a particular service. The box on the left will include the word “Azuma”. It’s been said before that weekend operations are usually similar to weekdays, ie they are used normally all week now. However for detailed discussion of diagrams there’s a separate thread here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lner-azuma-class-800-801-diagrams.179677/page-13
 

nlogax

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The LNER journey planner will show you what is planned for a particular service. The box on the left will include the word “Azuma”. It’s been said before that weekend operations are usually similar to weekdays, ie they are used normally all week now. However for detailed discussion of diagrams there’s a separate thread here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lner-azuma-class-800-801-diagrams.179677/page-13
Got it. Thank you kindly!

Edit: it was indeed right there, but still mostly 91s and HSTs in the afternoons if wanting to get home at a reasonable hour..so HST it shall be.
 
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Goldfish62

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That's the one yeah!

They are superior to anything fitted to Hitachi units or those equally as garbage ScotRail's 156 refurbs, even my better half made the same comment.
Lazzerrini Practico. To some extent I agree that they're obviously a bus seat, but are much softer than a DfT-spec train seat.
 

trebor79

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I don't know what they are replacing on Man Vic to Leeds but I remember doing Man Pic to Leeds on some sort of Pacer or Sprinter and Paddington to Oxford on a Thames Turbo so it could well seem like a great leap forward to the occasional visitor to those lines... and it is debatable whether it is better or worse than the horrible GWR refit of the HSTs, but I agree that even the harshest critic of older trains would not call the AT300s a big step up from the Intercity 225s that served Leeds - King's Cross for a long time.
Agreed. I prefer an IET, hard seats and all, over the horrific GWR Mk3 abomination. But I'd take a MK4 any day over an IET, they've been great carriages from day 1, and the Mallard refurb made them even better.
 

Roger B

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