LNR new WCML timetable, May 2019 (in open data feeds)

[E6007]

The LNR timetable is just disastrous full stop. Any disruption just leaves it in pieces. Fortunately I didn't attempt to use it.

They need to revert to a separate service either side of New St - that's the only thing that in my eye will fix it.

I agree with you about the general timetable but beyond that the whole plan for yesterday, particularly south of Northampton, was terrible. And that was before it fell apart due to the various incidents!

There needs to be a sensible emergency timetable for extreme weather days. I'd separate it into many parts, not only splitting at Birmingham but also at Northampton. Persevering with the Trent Valley services is OK but they need to do better for the intermediate stations! Even Northampton suffered badly yesterday, much more than it need have done.

 

[DavidGrain]

I usually travel Chiltern between Birmingham and London these days, as since I moved house that is more convenient. My experience of first class when I travelled on London Midland was that first class was always full as on the trains leaving Euston about 6.00pm first class was cheaper than standard class. Why, I have no idea but that was the option I was given when booking online.

 

[Tuppenny Tube]

One rather undesirable action that now seems to be occurring as a result of this fiasco is the 'non-stopping' of late running services.
On a Monday recently (29 July ?) the late running 0631 Liverpool to Rugeley TV ran non-stop from Crewe to Birmingham New Street in order to regain time.
From RTT I see that, today, 2 Birmingham - Liverpool 'stopping' services (0537 ex Milton Keynes & 0749 ex Euston) have run non-stop from Crewe to Liverpool Lime Street thereby omitting Winsford, Hartford, Acton Bridge (0537 only), Runcorn & South Parkway.
Whilst this might be an acceptable practice in 'commuterland' where services are more frequent I think it is quite deplorable on a line where the stations only have 1 train an hour and, in the case of Acton Bridge only a 2 hourly service. I rather think that anyone wanting the 0816 from Acton Bridge to Liverpool must have been rather annoyed (!) to see the train pass through the Station knowing that the next departure was not until 1016.
Incidentally, when was the last time passenger trains non-stopped Runcorn Station ?

 

[pt_mad]

Thing is if a train is late and has lost its.path, and thus is looking like it will have a late start for its next journey, then how do you get the train back in its booked slot? Either terminate short and turnaround there, or miss out some stops to get the train back in its path. What else can be done to recover? Otherwise the knock on effect would be that unit is getting later and later on every journey for the rest of the day, and obstructing other trains because it's lost its booked path.

Fundamentally, first thing that can't be gotten away from is having to split and.join a unit every hour either at New St or Wolverhampton. The Euston to Crewe via Birmingham, if it's been agreed with stakeholders or local authorities that it will be permanent, and.you can't stop 8 cars around the Stoke loop, well you're going to have to split and join if you want 8 cars running between Euston and Birmingham. So start with that as a fixed unless anything better can be thought of.

 

[sufian123]

Thing is if a train is late and has lost its.path, and thus is looking like it will have a late start for its next journey, then how do you get the train back in its booked slot? Either terminate short and turnaround there, or miss out some stops to get the train back in its path. What else can be done to recover? Otherwise the knock on effect would be that unit is getting later and later on every journey for the rest of the day, and obstructing other trains because it's lost its booked path.

Fundamentally, first thing that can't be gotten away from is having to split and.join a unit every hour either at New St or Wolverhampton. The Euston to Crewe via Birmingham, if it's been agreed with stakeholders or local authorities that it will be permanent, and.you can't stop 8 cars around the Stoke loop, well you're going to have to split and join if you want 8 cars running between Euston and Birmingham. So start with that as a fixed unless anything better can be thought of.

Euston-Crewe via loop was agreed by local council, opposition to not loosing direct link to Euston. LM was going to do it as well.

 

[philthetube]

Thing is if a train is late and has lost its.path, and thus is looking like it will have a late start for its next journey, then how do you get the train back in its booked slot? Either terminate short and turnaround there, or miss out some stops to get the train back in its path. What else can be done to recover? Otherwise the knock on effect would be that unit is getting later and later on every journey for the rest of the day, and obstructing other trains because it's lost its booked path.

This is not the problem of the poster, it is up to the railway to sort.

YOu don't need to cancel a 2 hourly commuter timed service to make it not worth running at all.

 

[pt_mad]

Euston-Crewe via loop was agreed by local council, opposition to not loosing direct link to Euston. LM was going to do it as well.

In that case theres no away around having a service divide and join every hour to reduce from 8 coaches at Birmingham to 4 for the Stoke loop. It'd have to be done somewhere be it New St or Wolverhampton.

 

[frodshamfella]

One rather undesirable action that now seems to be occurring as a result of this fiasco is the 'non-stopping' of late running services.
On a Monday recently (29 July ?) the late running 0631 Liverpool to Rugeley TV ran non-stop from Crewe to Birmingham New Street in order to regain time.
From RTT I see that, today, 2 Birmingham - Liverpool 'stopping' services (0537 ex Milton Keynes & 0749 ex Euston) have run non-stop from Crewe to Liverpool Lime Street thereby omitting Winsford, Hartford, Acton Bridge (0537 only), Runcorn & South Parkway.
Whilst this might be an acceptable practice in 'commuterland' where services are more frequent I think it is quite deplorable on a line where the stations only have 1 train an hour and, in the case of Acton Bridge only a 2 hourly service. I rather think that anyone wanting the 0816 from Acton Bridge to Liverpool must have been rather annoyed (!) to see the train pass through the Station knowing that the next departure was not until 1016.
Incidentally, when was the last time passenger trains non-stopped Runcorn Station ?

I have caught the 08.16 from Acton Bridge to Lime Street on a number of occasions and i would not have been amused at all. I am actually using Frodsham to Lime Street more often now as its more frequent, more reliable and cheaper.

 

[pt_mad]

Given it was likely the Shrewsbury would be doubled to two per hour with possible extra peak Herefords whoever took over, how else would the LNR stuff get enough paths through (Birmingham) without combining services into longer distances ones to save on slots? Especially once it became another proviso that a Euston to Birmingham had to continue onto Crewe every hour with 4 cars max.

 

[sufian123]

In that case theres no away around having a service divide and join every hour to reduce from 8 coaches at Birmingham to 4 for the Stoke loop. It'd have to be done somewhere be it New St or Wolverhampton.

original plan was Wolverhampton service to be extended via the wobble, thanks to local council opposition in loosing direct link to Euston. End of day this was the only solution Euston-bhm and spilt 8 cars up. So everyone is happy.

 

[VT 390]

Do many people from places on loop (such as Stone) actually use the new service to London past Birmingham all the way through?

 

[sufian123]

Do many people from places on loop (such as Stone) actually use the new service to London past Birmingham all the way through?

I think they do. Otherwise they wouldn’t petition for to keep it in the first place. MPs support, it’s a permanent thing. They not happy about longer journey times.

 

[VT 390]

I think they do. Otherwise they wouldn’t petition for to keep it in the first place. MPs support, it’s a permanent thing. They not happy about longer journey times.

If there not happy with the journey times they could always change at Stafford for a faster journey.

 

[sufian123]

If there not happy with the journey times they could always change at Stafford for a faster journey.

Connection is crap apparently they say. I have talked with the local, they not happy with it. When they said Euston service is staying, they saying they didn’t repair it be that long.

 

[VT 390]

Connection is crap apparently they say. I have talked with the local, they not happy with it. When they said Euston service is staying, they saying they didn’t repair it be that long.

Unless I'm missing something the connections southbound are very good and though not as good are still okay northbound.

 

[sufian123]

Unless I'm missing something the connections southbound are very good and though not as good are still okay northbound.

Yeah. True. I think that’s why they don’t like it. Sometimes, they said to me via stoke is avoided to make up time. I know it’s to do with crew. Not all drivers and conductors sign via stoke.

 

[aal7]

On Wednesday (7th) I needed to travel from Milton Keynes to Euston in the morning (8am) and back in the afternoon. On arrival at MKC there were almost no trains south because of a broken down train between Northampton and MK. When I got back to MKC around 3pm (7 hours later), they were still announcing delays due to an earlier broken down train. It's completely unrecoverable isn't it?

 

[RealTrains07]

Yeah. True. I think that’s why they don’t like it. Sometimes, they said to me via stoke is avoided to make up time. I know it’s to do with crew. Not all drivers and conductors sign via stoke.

And to think LNR were prepared with military style precision for the new timetable

 

[sufian123]

And to think LNR were prepared with military style precision for the new timetable

That’ll be next on the card. so many jobs at stake. I felt sorry for some, single parents I talked too. I like taking the train to stone. Now a days I don’t want to.

 

[RealTrains07]

That’ll be next on the card. so many jobs at stake. I felt sorry for some, single parents I talked too. I like taking the train to stone. Now a days I don’t want to.

Now i no longer have a levels to deal with i avoid trains at stone altogether unless absolute necessary

 

[87015]

And to think LNR were prepared with military style precision for the new timetable

What’s that quote based on?

 

[bionic]

Yeah. True. I think that’s why they don’t like it. Sometimes, they said to me via stoke is avoided to make up time. I know it’s to do with crew. Not all drivers and conductors sign via stoke.

That's not how I understand it at all. As I understand it, all services on that particular route are operated by just one depot, and everyone at that depot signs the route. Are you suggesting that they are cross-covering diagrams on the Stoke route with crews from other depots who don't have the route knowledge? I would be very surprised if that was true. My understanding is that it is to do with making up time, as you were told.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What’s that quote based on?

It was a load of rubbish (evidently) that LNR themselves came out with, if I recall.

Mind you, they might have been preparing with military precision, but any preparation is not going to help if the timetable is simply unworkable as it is.

 

[MarkWiles]

I think every military campaign in history could claim to have bee prepared with precision, but given pretty much every military campaign eventually results in one side winning, it could be argued that some military precision is more precise than others.

I see there have been some yawning gaps in the Rugeley Town service again today although Realtime Trains did show a couple of London services cancelled and what appeared to be a Birmingham starter inserted instead. Is this a glitch in RTT or are WMT having a unit on hot standby now? I also happened to see one cross=city diagram being worked by a "two car" train on the WMR website, presumably a DMU, does this mean the unit diagrams are being adversely affected by the ongoing timetable problems?

 

[sd0733]

That's not how I understand it at all. As I understand it, all services on that particular route are operated by just one depot, and everyone at that depot signs the route. Are you suggesting that they are cross-covering diagrams on the Stoke route with crews from other depots who don't have the route knowledge? I would be very surprised if that was true. My understanding is that it is to do with making up time, as you were told.

Yes it's all Crewe work as the only guards and drivers to sign it but New Street seem to cover quite regularly which means going via Madeley

 

[sufian123]

That's not how I understand it at all. As I understand it, all services on that particular route are operated by just one depot, and everyone at that depot signs the route. Are you suggesting that they are cross-covering diagrams on the Stoke route with crews from other depots who don't have the route knowledge? I would be very surprised if that was true. My understanding is that it is to do with making up time, as you were told.

its true not all crews sign via stoke. When new st is covering they go via fast line from Stafford. That’s why originally was planned to avoid via stoke, if it wasn’t for the opposition from mps and local people. London midland knew it will be difficult for crew diagram as well. It’s to keep local and MPs happy, they have to do it and it’s permanent.

 

[E6007]

I see there have been some yawning gaps in the Rugeley Town service again today although Realtime Trains did show a couple of London services cancelled and what appeared to be a Birmingham starter inserted instead. Is this a glitch in RTT or are WMT having a unit on hot standby now? I also happened to see one cross=city diagram being worked by a "two car" train on the WMR website, presumably a DMU, does this mean the unit diagrams are being adversely affected by the ongoing timetable problems?

Due to the overhead line issues at Tile Hill, there was no service between Birmingham NS and Northampton for much of the day. They were running I think near normal services south of Northampton and north of New St until around 17:00. A limited service ran to Birmingham International and between Northampton and Coventry.

Don't know how the northern end fared but Euston end seemed not too bad.

 

[RealTrains07]

Due to the overhead line issues at Tile Hill, there was no service between Birmingham NS and Northampton for much of the day. They were running I think near normal services south of Northampton and north of New St until around 17:00. A limited service ran to Birmingham International and between Northampton and Coventry.

Don't know how the northern end fared but Euston end seemed not too bad.

Northern side of things not too terrible either except for a lot of cancellations via stoke due to a tree blocking the line south WCML from what i gather and as usual train crew shortages

 

[RealTrains07]

What’s that quote based on?

LNR management have said it in multiple media stories from what i saw earlier in the year

 

[jfollows]

Chris Stokes, in the September 2019 edition of Modern Railways, states

According to the grapevine, everyone, including belatedly Abellio, now recognises that the timetable is fundamentally flawed

He also observes that it's especially worrying that this happened after the previous year's timetable fiasco elsewhere.

I'm glad that I no longer need to travel from Wilmslow to Birmingham, because prior to May 2019 I used the Liverpool-Birmingham service which was excellent and reliable. I don't think it is any more.

I feel that in both timetable cases, the people responsible for implementing the timetable either didn't listen to or ignored those who cautioned against the changes, and this thread demonstrates the many valid concerns which were raised. Is that because the people such as the posters here don't count for anything in the eyes of the people running our railways, and that they are convinced that they know better? That's certainly a feeling I get from this.