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London Bridge - new timetable during reconstruction works commencing 5th January 2015

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southern442

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Well personally I think a general disruption notice should have been put up about it because all I could see was the one about East Croydon and so I lumped it together, which was as it turns out incorrect.

The fact so many trains were cancelled and Southern didn't want to put a general notice out about it seem odd but this is Southern. I bet South West Trains wouldn't do that.

Well I now know what caused my train to arrive home 10 minutes late - There weren't even any delay announcements - it just seemed like one of those 'casual delays' when a train turns up 2 or 3 minutes late with no reason given. This morning, my train was late into East Croydon (0717), and the 0718 to Victoria hadn't even come in to terminate yet, so I just gave up and got the bus. Had I managed to get the 0727, it would still have been late.

I also just found out, looking at the timetable, some idiot in management thinks that it will take 4 minutes to get from Selhurst to Gloucester Road Junction. Some trains can apparently manage it in a minute. It is a distance of about 500 metres maximum. Apparently an average speed of 4.5 miles per hour is good enough!
 
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MrB

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I also just found out, looking at the timetable, some idiot in management thinks that it will take 4 minutes to get from Selhurst to Gloucester Road Junction. Some trains can apparently manage it in a minute. It is a distance of about 500 metres maximum. Apparently an average speed of 4.5 miles per hour is good enough!

Wouldn't this be timetable padding to try and convince regular punters (those who don't peruse these forums) that their train is running on time? Might reduce their penalties for delayed trains too.
 

southern442

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Wouldn't this be timetable padding to try and convince regular punters (those who don't peruse these forums) that their train is running on time? Might reduce their penalties for delayed trains too.

That is indeed why the times are being padded, but this one is ridiculous, I mean, come on, 4 minutes for a stretch of line 500 metres in length!
 

IrishDave

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That is indeed why the times are being padded, but this one is ridiculous, I mean, come on, 4 minutes for a stretch of line 500 metres in length!

Supposing there's a train right behind it heading for Selhurst depot (or even just heading for East Croydon), and a train in front of it heading from London Bridge towards West Croydon, and it needs a few extra minutes to be out of the way of both of those trains, what alternative is there to making your train wait on the spur between Selhurst and Gloucester Road Junction?
 

southern442

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Supposing there's a train right behind it heading for Selhurst depot (or even just heading for East Croydon), and a train in front of it heading from London Bridge towards West Croydon, and it needs a few extra minutes to be out of the way of both of those trains, what alternative is there to making your train wait on the spur between Selhurst and Gloucester Road Junction?

There isn't, though.
 

Bald Rick

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That is indeed why the times are being padded, but this one is ridiculous, I mean, come on, 4 minutes for a stretch of line 500 metres in length!

Assuming you mean 2R06, there's 3 minutes pathing time to keep it behind a LOROL service that terminates at W Croydon.

And it's 700metres.
 

southern442

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Assuming you mean 2R06, there's 3 minutes pathing time to keep it behind a LOROL service that terminates at W Croydon.

This will explain why it takes so long - although still I won't let the train get away with being late!

This LO service in question, 9C06 I believe, did it exist before the timetable change? Was it timed to run earlier or later than now?
 
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Orange Box

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Lots of rumours going round that SE are telling people August onwards is degenerating into a shambles and Charing X trains won't be stopping at London Bridge in the peak hour...
 

MrB

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Lots of rumours going round that SE are telling people August onwards is degenerating into a shambles and Charing X trains won't be stopping at London Bridge in the peak hour...

Are they being serious?!? Is there a source for this?
 

hwl

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Lots of rumours going round that SE are telling people August onwards is degenerating into a shambles and Charing X trains won't be stopping at London Bridge in the peak hour...

Is there any sensible background to this as SE will have 3 platforms with 2 in the peak direction to use or are there issues with counter peak where they have to push 20tph+ through 1 platform so lots of non stop in the counter peak direction?
Or is it to do with slight reduction in total SE tph through London Bridge hence they want to run slightly more to CHX but some non stop?
 

southern442

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I was at East Croydon today waiting for the 17:58 to East Grinstead. Casually turned up 3 minutes late, and then came to a halt outside Sanderstead, and crawled pretty much the rest of the way. Ended up taking nearly half an hour to do the journey between East Croydon and Upper Warlingham, and ended up delaying the train behind it too, arriving into UW later than the train behind would've done (had it run on time).

Absolutely no explanation for the delays given at either end or during the journey.
 

FOH

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Many Southern services delayed or cancelled this evening. The signage said only Mainline affected, everything else good service but my Caterham was cancelled due to shortage of train crew.
No announcements at London Bridge offering alternatives either.
 

ScotGG

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When the August timetable due out again? When I saw the draft all I could see was severe overcrowding on some lines with large gaps in service. Wouldn't be so bad if many trains that ran were 12 car...
 
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Chrisgr31

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I was at East Croydon today waiting for the 17:58 to East Grinstead. Casually turned up 3 minutes late, and then came to a halt outside Sanderstead, and crawled pretty much the rest of the way. Ended up taking nearly half an hour to do the journey between East Croydon and Upper Warlingham, and ended up delaying the train behind it too, arriving into UW later than the train behind would've done (had it run on time).

Absolutely no explanation for the delays given at either end or during the journey.

According to Twitter there were 20 minute delays or lines through Oxted caused by a speed restriction imposed southbound in Oxted tunnel, and then to add to that there were signal issues at Sanderstead.
 

southern442

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According to Twitter there were 20 minute delays or lines through Oxted caused by a speed restriction imposed southbound in Oxted tunnel, and then to add to that there were signal issues at Sanderstead.
Thank you for this information, I was not alerted of this at all on board or at East Croydon or Upper Warlingham. I suppose this time the delay can be excused, but the lack of communication cannot. Do they just not bother and expect you to have Twitter to find out the answers? Whilst I am grateful you told me this, I shouldn't have to come onto an online forum to ask about why my train was delayed :lol:
 

tsr

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Thank you for this information, I was not alerted of this at all on board or at East Croydon or Upper Warlingham. I suppose this time the delay can be excused, but the lack of communication cannot. Do they just not bother and expect you to have Twitter to find out the answers? Whilst I am grateful you told me this, I shouldn't have to come onto an online forum to ask about why my train was delayed :lol:

You are correct that the information given out was fairly bland; what didn't help was that it seemed not all stations' CIS systems had been updated, and that the detailed info for staff involved was buried at the very bottom of an endless pile of emails. However, staff in possession of the information should have been able to eventually find it, but maybe there were technical reasons why not (eg. email server problems, phone problems, etc. etc. etc.).

There were actually combinations of delays due to several issues, each impacting every train differently:
- Signalling problems requiring trains to pass a signal at danger with authority and run at caution on the Down East Grinstead between the former station at Selsdon and the starter signal at Sanderstead
- A 20mph restriction imposed in both directions through Oxted Tunnel following results of a track monitoring train passing over the line
- A track circuit fault disrupting trains between Crowborough and Uckfield
- Train crew diagrams not covered
- Crew on trains which were out of sequence at East Croydon, resulting in trains waiting for their crews who were stuck behind
- Congestion as a result of the above due to long signal sections on the East Grinstead & Uckfield lines
 

Sunset route

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I was at East Croydon today waiting for the 17:58 to East Grinstead. Casually turned up 3 minutes late, and then came to a halt outside Sanderstead, and crawled pretty much the rest of the way. Ended up taking nearly half an hour to do the journey between East Croydon and Upper Warlingham, and ended up delaying the train behind it too, arriving into UW later than the train behind would've done (had it run on time).

Absolutely no explanation for the delays given at either end or during the journey.

There was also a 20MPH ESR on the Down East Grinstead line between South Croydon Junction to Sanderstead imposed after overnight engineering work on the 28/29, which wouldn't of helped matters much.
 

infobleep

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You are correct that the information given out was fairly bland; what didn't help was that it seemed not all stations' CIS systems had been updated, and that the detailed info for staff involved was buried at the very bottom of an endless pile of emails. However, staff in possession of the information should have been able to eventually find it, but maybe there were technical reasons why not (eg. email server problems, phone problems, etc. etc. etc.).

There were actually combinations of delays due to several issues, each impacting every train differently:
- Signalling problems requiring trains to pass a signal at danger with authority and run at caution on the Down East Grinstead between the former station at Selsdon and the starter signal at Sanderstead
- A 20mph restriction imposed in both directions through Oxted Tunnel following results of a track monitoring train passing over the line
- A track circuit fault disrupting trains between Crowborough and Uckfield
- Train crew diagrams not covered
- Crew on trains which were out of sequence at East Croydon, resulting in trains waiting for their crews who were stuck behind
- Congestion as a result of the above due to long signal sections on the East Grinstead & Uckfield lines
Is there much that can be done to 's op e-mails appearing at the bottom of a long list? Is their a more effective way of communicating? Would something like Google Hangouts (aka messaging systen) work or would that just result in same issues as e-mails.

Akso can they block update CISs to display the same thing?

It's not easy when multiple issues exist though. Last night their was a signaling issue around Berrylands. Thus delayed trains to Woking on the fast line. One train also had a door fault.

So the information on National Rail Enquiries got translated to train delayed due to door fault. When if you go to South West Trains Journey check it's train delayed due to signal fault and train formed of something like 8 coaches due to door fault. It was a service to Exeter., the 18.27 from Clapham Junction.

With so much info and probably little time to get it out, it's not surprising things happen like this.
 

MrB

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To add to the above post I doubt Joe Public wants to know in intricate detail exactly what is happening - delayed due to signal fault suffices for most.
 

infobleep

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To add to the above post I doubt Joe Public wants to know in intricate detail exactly what is happening - delayed due to signal fault suffices for most.
What most people want to know is why train delayed and will it have less carriages than usual or by full due to stated reason.

Perhaps one of the stated reason options could to be due to rolling stock contract!
 

ScotGG

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Lots of rumours going round that SE are telling people August onwards is degenerating into a shambles and Charing X trains won't be stopping at London Bridge in the peak hour...

Any more on this? Would have a big impact.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Signalling fallen down somewhere it seems. No trains running out of Charing Cross.
 

neilm

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Haven't seen any news about problems for august. Apart there is a big blockade then. Perhaps they are getting confused?
 

MrB

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Lines re-opened around 1530, according to SET website it was a rail defect at London Bridge.

Yes that's what I saw - seems that they're going to be doing work tonight as several late night services are being diverted into and out of CST.
 

Bald Rick

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Lines re-opened around 1530, according to SET website it was a rail defect at London Bridge.

It was, yet again, a problem in the third rail system blowing the signalling. This time down at Parks Bridge Junction. The rail defect was one of many consequences (an insulated block joint burnt out).
 

southern442

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I was going to post on this thread every time my train got delayed but I've since come to my sense and realised that it may be a stupid idea. However today there was something interesting in the Evening Standard (and this is pretty rare in itself) that said a Southeastern train was sent down the wrong line by signalmen. I can't find an article online (yet) but if there is one that comes up I will post it.
 

MrB

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I was going to post on this thread every time my train got delayed but I've since come to my sense and realised that it may be a stupid idea. However today there was something interesting in the Evening Standard (and this is pretty rare in itself) that said a Southeastern train was sent down the wrong line by signalmen. I can't find an article online (yet) but if there is one that comes up I will post it.

Didn't this happen at Hither Green with the train diverted via Sidcup instead of continuing to Orpington? I can't find a source either.
 

southern442

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Didn't this happen at Hither Green with the train diverted via Sidcup instead of continuing to Orpington? I can't find a source either.

Yes, that was it. Must have been an embarrassing announcement to make :lol:
 
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