London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[Failed Unit]

When I used the Newark stopper travelling south earlier this year all drinks (hot & cold) were delivered on the same trolley. if you asked for food, they brought it preplated from the kitchen presumably due to the low number of passengers they were serving & only those boarding at Newark qualified for any food
I boarded the HST at Newark & was the only passenger in coach L until Peterborough. I think there were a few other passengers in the next coach.

This thread goes on and on, wouldn't Grantham passengers aslo qualify for the food with the padding in the timetable? Taking a random service out the timetable that is 72 mins from Grantham - London, come on east coast get that padding out the timetable and that will bring it down to another stop with no food.

 

[calc7]

This thread goes on and on, wouldn't Grantham passengers aslo qualify for the food with the padding in the timetable? Taking a random service out the timetable that is 72 mins from Grantham - London, come on east coast get that padding out the timetable and that will bring it down to another stop with no food.

Oh dear, now you are asking the penny-pinchers to conjecture whether they would lose more money from the additional food given out (but adding back the goodwill generated); or from the delay repay and late fines from those services that would be tipped over "into the red"!

 

[Butts]

Try telling that to the thirsty First passengers!

I wonder if they were referring to the 1st Class Trolley if so.....it's so complicated.... ask the passengers to attend the Cafe in Carriage or Row No to collect whatever they require (to avoid a scrum)- or set up the goods on a spare table in J or K.....!!!

 

[YorkshireRider]

Can I ask if the new menu has started?

If so has anoyone tried it?

No, Nov 26th
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is someone who posts on this thread that works for East Coast and I believe they're front line staff.

Indeed i am, i dont think ive ever made any secret of it have I? Although maybe its less obvious in recent posts than when the thread started
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This thread goes on and on, wouldn't Grantham passengers aslo qualify for the food with the padding in the timetable? Taking a random service out the timetable that is 72 mins from Grantham - London, come on east coast get that padding out the timetable and that will bring it down to another stop with no food.

Grantham passengers are entitled to food in both directions.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Come on Mods find us an East Coast Caterer to have a pop at !!!

Go on then have a pop , but like i say ive never made a secret of the fact i work for them, put i must add i very rarely work north of York which seems to be where the main problems lie.

 

[Butts]

May I respectfully ask you if staff are made aware of what is discussed in the EC Directors Forum and if so:

Why do they treat the alcohol as though it is their own personal possesion - the ECDF has stipulated that if you require a drink outside of the normal "trolley run" you are quite at liberty to ask for and receive one. It is a well known fact (from personal observation) that lots of customers don't have any at all hence the supplly issues are non-existant.

Why are two slices ot toast not offered as a matter of course at breakfast time ?

Many thanks...

 

[YorkshireRider]

We are not made directly aware of whats said in the director forum however we have recieved briefs that we should use discretion with regards extra drinks. In other words as long as there is enough, which they nearly always is, so one extra drink should never be refused really in my opinion, i never have.
I dont work many breakfast trains but when i have, i have never refused a second slice if asked, maybe it should be offered as standard but there has been no instruction to do so to staff. One reason maybe is that on HSTs the toaster only toasts 6 slices at a time and they sometimes only work intermitantly due to power issues and therefore on busy services giving everyone 2 slices may become difficult, however on 225s it should be no problem.

 

[Butts]

We are not made directly aware of whats said in the director forum however we have recieved briefs that we should use discretion with regards extra drinks. In other words as long as there is enough, which they nearly always is, so one extra drink should never be refused really in my opinion, i never have.
I dont work many breakfast trains but when i have, i have never refused a second slice if asked, maybe it should be offered as standard but there has been no instruction to do so to staff. One reason maybe is that on HSTs the toaster only toasts 6 slices at a time and they sometimes only work intermitantly due to power issues and therefore on busy services giving everyone 2 slices may become difficult, however on 225s it should be no problem.

Can I sincerely thank you (yes watchers I can be appreciative) for putting your head above the parapet.

On the Chieftan last night with about thirty people (if that) in the whole of 1st Class ex EDB I requested a couple of scotches on the final run ex Perth. Despite a bulging drinks trolley it was a struggle and I am sick of invoking the ECDF. Conversely I have been on services where staff have been happy to dispense as much as you like without batting an eyelid. It's not the stock but the staff that make a difference to the level of service.

With regard to the six slice toaster - can't they just install another one - any business struggling with demand would surely do this ?

Finally a lot of staff have advised me that they constantly inform "high command " that hot food is running out sometimes as early as departure from London yet nothing is done about it - leaving boarders at York northwards with no chance.

 

[SGS]

One reason maybe is that on HSTs the toaster only toasts 6 slices at a time and they sometimes only work intermitantly due to power issues and therefore on busy services giving everyone 2 slices may become difficult, however on 225s it should be no problem.

This is one in the eye for all those HST-bashers, isn't it? They'll not be so full of their "148mph diesel record", and "4500hp", and "past Valenta glories", when they're reminded of the puny six-slice toaster!

 

[paulypaul]

YorkshireRider No, Nov 26th

Thank you. I appreciate your help.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Does anyone have the Directors Forum quote about availability of alcohol on weekday services?

I'm travelling from Edinburgh to Peterborough on a weekday service and would like to print it out, in case I'm challenged when asking for a drink.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Can I sincerely thank you (yes watchers I can be appreciative) for putting your head above the parapet.

On the Chieftan last night with about thirty people (if that) in the whole of 1st Class ex EDB I requested a couple of scotches on the final run ex Perth. Despite a bulging drinks trolley it was a struggle and I am sick of invoking the ECDF. Conversely I have been on services where staff have been happy to dispense as much as you like without batting an eyelid. It's not the stock but the staff that make a difference to the level of service.

With regard to the six slice toaster - can't they just install another one - any business struggling with demand would surely do this ?

Finally a lot of staff have advised me that they constantly inform "high command " that hot food is running out sometimes as early as departure from London yet nothing is done about it - leaving boarders at York northwards with no chance.

Im afraid it does just come down to crew attitude on the drinks front, some staff do seem to begrudge giving booze away (anyone would think it was their own money). I think it needs a bit more of a push from management and not just a use your discrestion, which is a bit of a wishy washy statement.
I think putting a bigger toaster on HSTs could make the problem worse, a HST cant seem to cope with amount of stuff in the kitchen as it is, without something tripping out or only working at half power, only when both power cars are at full power does everything seem to work properly.
I cant really comment on Newcastle/Scotland services as i dont work them but there can sometimes be problems on Leeds services too as regards hot food. The problem seems to lie in the fact when orders are placed based on predicted loadings, although the amount of food is usually correct, the percentage of the order which is cold food (sandwiches) is to high, and hot too low. Who want sanries at night time if something hot is on offer? Anyway we are told the ordering manager is on to this and the matrix will be changed for the new menu.

 

[Butts]

YorkshireRider No, Nov 26th

Thank you. I appreciate your help.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Does anyone have the Directors Forum quote about availability of alcohol on weekday services?

I'm travelling from Edinburgh to Peterborough on a weekday service and would like to print it out, in case I'm challenged when asking for a drink.

I tried to get hold of it but it appears to have vanished in to "hyperspace" - the best tactic to adopt is to catch them "on the way out and the way back"

It has a lot to do with the staff member - if its the last run some will profer an extra with gentle prompting.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Im afraid it does just come down to crew attitude on the drinks front, some staff do seem to begrudge giving booze away (anyone would think it was their own money). I think it needs a bit more of a push from management and not just a use your discrestion, which is a bit of a wishy washy statement.
I think putting a bigger toaster on HSTs could make the problem worse, a HST cant seem to cope with amount of stuff in the kitchen as it is, without something tripping out or only working at half power, only when both power cars are at full power does everything seem to work properly.
I cant really comment on Newcastle/Scotland services as i dont work them but there can sometimes be problems on Leeds services too as regards hot food. The problem seems to lie in the fact when orders are placed based on predicted loadings, although the amount of food is usually correct, the percentage of the order which is cold food (sandwiches) is to high, and hot too low. Who want sanries at night time if something hot is on offer? Anyway we are told the ordering manager is on to this and the matrix will be changed for the new menu.

Perhaps a sensible compromise on the drinks front would be to give one drink out on "the run" and advise passengers if they want additional supplies before the next run to go to The Cafe Bar - I would be happy with this.

With regard to the toaster why not carry a spare and plug it in in a carriage if necessary, or a supply of fresh rolls as an alternative. I'm not a caterer but these problems are so simple to solve.

If a train is running out of stock why not radio ahead to York to pick up some pies at least from the RG depot - lateral thinking and flexibility are the key words.

When the service I was on left Inverness the other morning with no hot food thay claimed the equipment was faulty. They must have known about this more than 5 mins before departure. So what do you do just come round with a trolley with crisps and biscuits...? No you use your initiative and obtain a load of hot bacon rolls from Pumpkin prior to departure or arrange to pick some up in Aviemore from the numerous Cafes that abound. To facilitate this you just need a float of a few hundred quid.

Failing this why not carry a supply of vouchers to issue to passemgers in these circumstances so they can obtain something at their destination.

Where theres a will theres a way

 

[YorkshireRider]

Im guessing food hygiene rules would stop the company serving food made in station outlets and cafes on board, who is responsiable if a passengers comes down with food poisoning? Having bread rolls which you stick in the oven instead of toast on HSTs is not a bad idea though. York RG doesnt stock first class food, just drinks, milk and the most popular buffet items. There isnt a great deal of space at RG York. However Edinburgh services can top off at Newcastle if need be.

 

[Butts]

Im guessing food hygiene rules would stop the company serving food made in station outlets and cafes on board, who is responsiable if a passengers comes down with food poisoning? Having bread rolls which you stick in the oven instead of toast on HSTs is not a bad idea though. York RG doesnt stock first class food, just drinks, milk and the most popular buffet items. There isnt a great deal of space at RG York. However Edinburgh services can top off at Newcastle if need be.

Thanks for putting your head "above the parapet" unlike "Silentone" who went off in a huff over a year ago!!

Yes, I have been back over the whole thread (over the course of the weekend at work.....took hours )

With regard to the HST's over one year ago you made a post relating to the fact the refrigeration problem seemed to have been sorted - alas it seems this was premature - particularly in Aberdeen and Inverness on overnights

Early in the thread there was a case of staff purchasing bacon in Inverness prior to departure which was even praised by Karen Boswell in reply to a letter from a customer. Was this an isolated incident to "go beyond the norm" and exceeed customer expectations or have the rules changed.

EC Directors Forum established the supply of alcohol "was on demand" subject to adequate supplies, yet staff are still contesting this while pushing a full trolley through an empty First Class Section.

The old bugbear of "Toast" despite ECDF directives is still being "rationed" with two slices not being offered as a matter of course.

Travelling North of York in the evening is still a lottery with regard to the availabilty of hot food, the same story of not enough food loaded in London is still being put forward by staff despite the fact they are constantly advising management of this shortfall.

All these problems existed 18 months ago and are still prevalent today, for which there are really no excuses other than not "giving a toss" (the High Command)

From your posts you sound like a pragmatic chap who goes the extra mile for passengers, but unfortunately a lot of your colleagues are not of the same calibre.

Finally is there any hope of a voucher for use elsewhere in the event of service delivery failure (for refreshments)
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Currently onboard the 1830 Ex EDB to KGX - going to Morpeth.

Good start , Coffee, Drinks, and Food Trolley all before Dunbar - but no Hot Food available till after Newcastle (no good to me !!!) This is not a supply issue but an operational one - as Morpeth is over 70 mins from EDB what is the excuse for this ?

The Service originated in Edinburgh - from a plus point you would have had the full works excluding hot stuff travelling to Berwick or Alnmouth (both sub 70) but not hot as you should have plus 70 to Morpeth.

Have they got something against Morpeth ???

 

[ainsworth74]

Have they got something against Morpeth ???

It isn't south of Newcastle or Leeds?

 

[Butts]

It isn't south of Newcastle or Leeds?

While your on could you or Dave Newcastle answer the following question....

When would it have last been possible to enjoy a cigar and cognac after a sumptious meal in the Dining Car ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It isn't south of Newcastle or Leeds?

After I've seen the loading on tonights 2156 from Morpeth to Edinburgh in 1st Class I'm beginning to think the viability of the services must be called into doubt north of Newcastle.

I was the only passenger who got on at Morpeth in either 1st or 2nd Class ...there was no offer of what should be all day menu, just coffee and biscuits at least served promptly.

I requested (and received) a couple of Scotches to drown my sorrows

 

[YorkshireRider]

Yes, I have been back over the whole thread (over the course of the weekend at work.....took hours )

With regard to the HST's over one year ago you made a post relating to the fact the refrigeration problem seemed to have been sorted - alas it seems this was premature - particularly in Aberdeen and Inverness on overnights



Finally is there any hope of a voucher for use elsewhere in the event of service delivery failure (for refreshments)

Jesus! The whole thread, must have been a slow day at work. Yes i forgot i said that, it was indeed premature. I would guess the chance of vouchers would be between nil and nil although i think they should consider at least giving some rail travel vouchers (like the delay repay ones) if passengers write or email in as at least some form of sorry/compo. The crew leader could carry a stamp to endorse the tickets if catering was unavailable on that service.

 

[calc7]

Jesus! The whole thread, must have been a slow day at work. Yes i forgot i said that, it was indeed premature. I would guess the chance of vouchers would be between nil and nil although i think they should consider at least giving some rail travel vouchers (like the delay repay ones) if passengers write or email in as at least some form of sorry/compo. The crew leader could carry a stamp to endorse the tickets if catering was unavailable on that service.

One would hope the management would register the situation to be of sufficient gravity that "word of mouth" by each affected Service Manager is logged by "High Command" (thus negating the need for the passenger to prove the lack of/insufficient catering with a stamped ticket)

 

[Butts]

One would hope the management would register the situation to be of sufficient gravity that "word of mouth" by each affected Service Manager is logged by "High Command" (thus negating the need for the passenger to prove the lack of/insufficient catering with a stamped ticket)

"And it's Fillet Steak on the 1830 out of Edinburgh" - or should that be Pork Chops or even "Porky Pies"

Yorkshire Rider have you enough "time served" to answer my Cognac and Cigar query ?

 

[YorkshireRider]

Cognac was no problem in the dining car, we sold them up until EC went to the comp food in FC, however in my time a cigar was never possiable, you would have had to make your may to the back of coach M to light one up.

 

[Butts]

Cognac was no problem in the dining car, we sold them up until EC went to the comp food in FC, however in my time a cigar was never possiable, you would have had to make your may to the back of coach M to light one up.

Thanks for the prompt reply - when did the "M" facilty go ?

 

[YorkshireRider]

The smoking sections in the front of coach B for standard and rear of M for first (the partitions remain by the way, just without the sliding doors) were stopped about 3 months before the smoking ban for inclosed public spaces came into law in Scotland. I cant remember the date but i have a feeling you might. GNER thought (and probably rightly) it would be impossiable to enforce the ban when the train crossed the border at Berwick so just decided to ban smoking full stop. I believe but im not 100% sure GNER was the last TOC to allow smoking on its trains.

 

[Butts]

The smoking sections in the front of coach B for standard and rear of M for first (the partitions remain by the way, just without the sliding doors) were stopped about 3 months before the smoking ban for inclosed public spaces came into law in Scotland. I cant remember the date but i have a feeling you might. GNER thought (and probably rightly) it would be impossiable to enforce the ban when the train crossed the border at Berwick so just decided to ban smoking full stop. I believe but im not 100% sure GNER was the last TOC to allow smoking on its trains.

Yes March 2006 an infamous day in Scottish History....imagine the Police getting on at Berwick to arrest people for a "sly burn"

My belief is that Drivers were permitted to smoke in their cabs between this and the ban in England coming in - if not East Coast certainly some companies.

I am suprised bearing in mind the number of Rail Staff that smoke the Unions did not do anything to prevent the "open platform" ban in England and Wales.
On a turnaround this a good chance to have a smoke without having to leave the vicinity of The Train. I bet it happens on "the QT" at some remoter stations at night time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Have been watching the TV Adverts with Vic Reeves in which have been showing quite a bit recently.

One thing I noticed you don't see a direct shot of what the breakfast actually looks like as a whole, only carefully angled shots that show part of it.

Wonder why that is

Also (like me) he hogs a "4" with all his Art Stuff !!

 

[Blindtraveler]

it will be interesting to see how new menue goes on Mon. Whos due to go EC First soon?

 

[Butts]

it will be interesting to see how new menue goes on Mon. Whos due to go EC First soon?

BT some of us are still struggling to get "the old menu" let alone the new one

Anyone travelling North of York...."Abandon hope all ye who enter an EC Service here"

 

[calc7]

BT some of us are still struggling to get "the old menu" let alone the new one

Anyone travelling North of York...."Abandon hope all ye who enter an EC Service here"

I'm doing YRK-EDB first week in December so place your bets

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm doing YRK-EDB first week in December so place your bets

What time?

 

[calc7]

What time?

Mid-afternoon so "All Day" not evening meal.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think you've a reasonable chance of getting the full menu in that case, but I'd not put money on it

 

[Butts]

I think you've a reasonable chance of getting the full menu in that case, but I'd not put money on it

Thats what I thought leaving Edinburgh for Morpeth at 1830 the other week but it didn't materialise !!

Or leaving Morpeth for Edinburgh the same day ....
Or leaving Inverness for Falkirk a few days before at 0730

Or leaving Edinburgh for Inverness the day before that

18 Months on there are still problems which is frankly unacceptable, if it was an odd occurence but four journeys in a row ?

 

[calc7]

I think you've a reasonable chance of getting the full menu in that case, but I'd not put money on it

I'm not so sure ... it is the third-quarter moon in the seventh month of the year of the snake after all!