London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[westv]

Yesterday got the direct service from Kings X to Hull.
Hardly any water or soap in the toilet and no loo roll or paper towel to dry hands with.

 

[Butts]

Yesterday got the direct service from Kings X to Hull.
Hardly any water or soap in the toilet and no loo roll or paper towel to dry hands with.

Never mind that , more importantly was there "Scotch on Tap"

 

[davidgiles]

Travelled on the up Highland Chieftain end to end last Monday. Toilets were vile - by Newcastle there were no working ones anywhere in first class. Catering was good north of Edinburgh - full English and regular hot drinks. Went badly downhill thereafter though - the jacket potato with watery salmon mix was rubbish and we were not offered cake, fruit or even biscuits. Only two cold drinks runs. I asked the crew leader for cake (in a Dickensian manner) and was told there wasn't any. Said he'd be back after restocking at York. Never saw him again. If that's the way EC want to treat first class passengers, they may never see me again either. Strange way to treat one's customers.

 

[A-driver]

Travelled on the up Highland Chieftain end to end last Monday. Toilets were vile - by Newcastle there were no working ones anywhere in first class. Catering was good north of Edinburgh - full English and regular hot drinks. Went badly downhill thereafter though - the jacket potato with watery salmon mix was rubbish and we were not offered cake, fruit or even biscuits. Only two cold drinks runs. I asked the crew leader for cake (in a Dickensian manner) and was told there wasn't any. Said he'd be back after restocking at York. Never saw him again. If that's the way EC want to treat first class passengers, they may never see me again either. Strange way to treat one's customers.

What, not having cake on a train? That is a strange way to treat passengers is it? Did you get on the train purely for the food? If so then you are confused as it is actually a restaurant you are after. Most people catch a train as a means to get from A to B. there are starving children in Africa but I doubt they suffered anywhere near as you did having to last a few hours without any free cake despite being given free breakfast and lunch already.

Perhaps east coast should start to cancel trains which run out of cake.

And there is a chance that you were not the only passenger on the train which the crew leader was dealing with so therefore he may actually have innocently forgotten (I know...how dare he, he should be sacked right away).

 

[HowardGWR]

What, not having cake on a train? That is a strange way to treat passengers is it? Did you get on the train purely for the food? If so then you are confused as it is actually a restaurant you are after. Most people catch a train as a means to get from A to B. there are starving children in Africa but I doubt they suffered anywhere near as you did having to last a few hours without any free cake despite being given free breakfast and lunch already.

Perhaps east coast should start to cancel trains which run out of cake.

And there is a chance that you were not the only passenger on the train which the crew leader was dealing with so therefore he may actually have innocently forgotten (I know...how dare he, he should be sacked right away).

The OPs have a point about the toilets though. I could understand an excuse of appalling standards if a set is halfway through its journey and has suffered a stag party treatment but not from the outset.

 

[yorkie]

What, not having cake on a train? ....

To be fair, this is a thread specifically for discussing the First Class service.

If anyone doesn't want to read such posts, it's pretty easy to avoid reading this particular thread

Having a quick look at some of your 31 posts in this subject, I wonder if you may prefer to avoid it?

 

[A-driver]

To be fair, this is a thread specifically for discussing the First Class service.

If anyone doesn't want to read such posts, it's pretty easy to avoid reading this particular thread

Having a quick look at some of your 31 posts in this subject, I wonder if you may prefer to avoid it?

I didn't say I didn't want to read such posts did I?

I am just pointing out that I feel some on here forget that this is a complimentary refreshment service, not an 'on demand' all you can eat service. The poster that my last post refers to has said he was given breakfast and lunch for free as well as 2 free cold drinks (if that desperate for more you could either ask or buy more-it dosnt say anywhere that they will provide constant supplies of drink does it?) but appears very let down that he couldn't get a bit of cake as they had run out (how dare they?!)

I personally feel this is rather ridiculous and hardly a major issue like it is made out to be-I doubt I'd avoid using a train in the future purely because they run out of cake, perhaps I'm just too easy going though! I trust the train still managed to get him from a to b despite the lack of cake on board.

I see no reason to avoid this thread. Unless you are saying that one may only complain on here and any discussion or opinions that the service isn't that poor is banned...?

Ok, if no catering is provided whatsoever, even after asking, then that is a fair complaint in a long trip but to argue that they are treating their customers so poorly purely by running out of cake rather devalues this as a serious thread does it not?

 

[davidgiles]

What, not having cake on a train? That is a strange way to treat passengers is it? Did you get on the train purely for the food? If so then you are confused as it is actually a restaurant you are after. Most people catch a train as a means to get from A to B. there are starving children in Africa but I doubt they suffered anywhere near as you did having to last a few hours without any free cake despite being given free breakfast and lunch already.

Perhaps east coast should start to cancel trains which run out of cake.

And there is a chance that you were not the only passenger on the train which the crew leader was dealing with so therefore he may actually have innocently forgotten (I know...how dare he, he should be sacked right away).

No, dear A-driver, I am not confused. But I did choose to travel first class because of the advertised catering facilities.

I did not claim that the travelling conditions were inhumane, but that they fell significantly short of what was suggested by EC's promotional material. The menus on the table may not make the carriage a restaurant, but they do create an expectation that in this instance was not met.

I am not calling for anyone's head on a plate, but some cake/fruit/biscuits on said crockery would have been appreciated.

 

[yorkie]

I didn't say I didn't want to read such posts did I?

I'm just pointing out you seem to be unhappy with many posts in this thread, but this thread is specifically for the purpose of discussing experiences of the First Class service (and not for train timekeeping etc).

I am just pointing out that I feel some on here forget that this is a complimentary refreshment service, not an 'on demand' all you can eat service. The poster that my last post refers to has said he was given breakfast and lunch for free as well as 2 free cold drinks (if that desperate for more you could either ask or buy more-it dosnt say anywhere that they will provide constant supplies of drink does it?) but appears very let down that he couldn't get a bit of cake as they had run out (how dare they?!)

People are entitled to their opinions, and the expectations most people have is based on the promotional material produced by East Coast themselves. There was more to that post than just cake.

I personally feel this is rather ridiculous and hardly a major issue like it is made out to be-I doubt I'd avoid using a train in the future purely because they run out of cake, perhaps I'm just too easy going though! I trust the train still managed to get him from a to b despite the lack of cake on board.

If all people want is to travel from A to B on time, they will go Standard Class. This thread is not about that, and is about the First Class service, so that people can make an informed decision on whether or not to pay the extra.

My experience of my last First Class trip was that it was not worth the extra.

Yes, some views may be more reasonable than others, but you know what the purpose of this thread is, and what to expect, when you click on it, and it's not about whether or not trains get from A to B on time.

I see no reason to avoid this thread. Unless you are saying that one may only complain on here and any discussion or opinions that the service isn't that poor is banned...?

Of course I am not saying that, but I will point out that our rules state "We aim to create a friendly environment for all members, where individuals respect each other. Please ensure your contributions comply with this."

Ok, if no catering is provided whatsoever, even after asking, then that is a fair complaint in a long trip but to argue that they are treating their customers so poorly purely by running out of cake rather devalues this as a serious thread does it not?

I don't think the post in question had the best wording ever, but responses still need to be respectful.

 

[A-driver]

No, dear A-driver, I am not confused. But I did choose to travel first class because of the advertised catering facilities.

I did not claim that the travelling conditions were inhumane, but that they fell significantly short of what was suggested by EC's promotional material. The menus on the table may not make the carriage a restaurant, but they do create an expectation that in this instance was not met.

I am not calling for anyone's head on a plate, but some cake/fruit/biscuits on said crockery would have been appreciated.

But you got breakfast and lunch and 2 drinks did you not? Therefore you got the advertised catering service, if you look at any first class promotional material it states that everything is subject to availability. It appears cakes was not available on that train. But you still had 2 drinks, breakfast and lunch (for free) so can't see how it fell that short of promotional material.

To be honest, if they offered only one meal and 1 drink on a long distance train they would still be providing what they advertise. Unless anyone can show me where it says that they will provide a continuous stream of food and drink?

 

[A-driver]

I'm just pointing out you seem to be unhappy with many posts in this thread, but this thread is specifically for the purpose of discussing experiences of the First Class service (and not for train timekeeping etc).

People are entitled to their opinions, and the expectations most people have is based on the promotional material produced by East Coast themselves. There was more to that post than just cake.

If all people want is to travel from A to B on time, they will go Standard Class. This thread is not about that, and is about the First Class service, so that people can make an informed decision on whether or not to pay the extra.

My experience of my last First Class trip was that it was not worth the extra.

Yes, some views may be more reasonable than others, but you know what the purpose of this thread is, and what to expect, when you click on it, and it's not about whether or not trains get from A to B on time.

Of course I am not saying that, but I will point out that our rules state "We aim to create a friendly environment for all members, where individuals respect each other. Please ensure your contributions comply with this."


I don't think the post in question had the best wording ever, but responses still need to be respectful.

I don't see how my posts have been any more disrespectful than the posts I am responding to?

 

[davidgiles]

But you got breakfast and lunch and 2 drinks did you not? Therefore you got the advertised catering service, if you look at any first class promotional material it states that everything is subject to availability. It appears cakes was not available on that train. But you still had 2 drinks, breakfast and lunch (for free) so can't see how it fell that short of promotional material.

To be honest, if they offered only one meal and 1 drink on a long distance train they would still be providing what they advertise. Unless anyone can show me where it says that they will provide a continuous stream of food and drink?

I wasn't expecting a continuous stream. I was expecting a breakfast and a lunch, as EC's web pages suggest. Perhaps my expectations are too high, but when presented with an all day menu offering cake/fruit/biscuits I do anticipate being able to receive one of those items. The fact that it is 'free' is neither here nor there - it was offered and yet not available. Poor customer service.

I might be more sympathetic if the (small) jacket potato had actually been palatable. I might be more sympathetic if the staff hadn't done a disappearing act. I might be more sympathetic if the toilets had been less squalid. I might be more sympathetic if there was actually a real restaurant on board, which operates in a conventional manner. As it is, I was disappointed. Not outraged. Disappointed.

 

[A-driver]

I wasn't expecting a continuous stream. I was expecting a breakfast and a lunch, as EC's web pages suggest. Perhaps my expectations are too high, but when presented with an all day menu offering cake/fruit/biscuits I do anticipate being able to receive one of those items. The fact that it is 'free' is neither here nor there - it was offered and yet not available. Poor customer service.

I might be more sympathetic if the (small) jacket potato had actually been palatable. I might be more sympathetic if the staff hadn't done a disappearing act. I might be more sympathetic if the toilets had been less squalid. I might be more sympathetic if there was actually a real restaurant on board, which operates in a conventional manner. As it is, I was disappointed. Not outraged. Disappointed.

Of course the toilets sound poor, sounds like a technical problem but whilst there may be little that could be done other than cancelling the train it doesn't sound particularly good.

But with the food, the quality of the lunch is your opinion and is prepared on a train, not in a proper kitchen/restaurant.

I'm interested in what you mean by the staff did a disappearing act? So you say the crew leader didn't come back to you about cake? Is it not possible as I have already said that he forgot being that you aren't the only passenger he was dealing with?

There isn't a real restaurant on board mainly for reasons of capacity (you can't justify giving people effectively 2 seats on a train which is already overcrowded) and east coast don't advertise that there is a restaurant so I can't see the relevance of that point. Long train journeys don't automatically justify a restaurant.

As I have already said, food is offered subject to availability (read the promotional materials) and In this case it wasn't available for what ever reason. I don't know what you would like them to have done to fix this-delay the train whilst they run out of a station and buy a cake perhaps?

Most people don't travel first class solely for the food, they do so for the larger seats, nicer travelling environment and extra legroom and space to work etc. It just seems your expectations may be a little high for this.

 

[Essexman]

The point is that these 'free' offerrings (which other than breakfast I find to be pretty mediocre) replaced a proper meals service where you could choose good hot food from a menu.

The 'restaurants took up too much space' argument is of limited validity, because it was mostly at seat dining, not restaurants, that were replaced by the new system.

By way of example. In a few weeks I am travelling from Stirling to Inverness after a day's meetings. There used to be a full restaurant. Last time I had a good meal cooked by a chef and served at seat. This time I'll get a sandwich if lucky. There isn't time to eat before boarding the train and if there was it would effectively increase my total journey time. By the time I get to my hotel in Inverness I won't want dinner. East Coast have taken away one of the advantages of train travel - to eat a good quality hot meal while travelling.

 

[transmanche]

I don't know what you would like them to have done to fix this-delay the train whilst they run out of a station and buy a cake perhaps?

As running out of stock seems to be a regular problem, perhaps a review of the re-stocking system (e.g. where and how often this happens - especially for items with shelf-life of more than one day) might be due. In this specific situation, it might well have been appropriate to get a member of East Coast staff at Newcastle to pop across the road to Greggs to get some cakes(!).

 

[A-driver]

As running out of stock seems to be a regular problem, perhaps a review of the re-stocking system (e.g. where and how often this happens - especially for items with shelf-life of more than one day) might be due. In this specific situation, it might well have been appropriate to get a member of East Coast staff at Newcastle to pop across the road to Greggs to get some cakes(!).

I don't know quite how regular it actually is-you are basing that on a handful of posts on here rather than hard evidence gathered from every east coast train that runs every day. I would suggest that people are more likely to come on here and complain about the service than other posting to say that they got what they expected. Generally that is the rule when it comes to any kind of customer service-people are more likely to complain than praise.

I'm not entirely sure how serious you are about staff running to the shops en route but I assume it is a joke. If not then I would question weather you are seriously suggesting delaying a train and causing knock on delays to numerous other trains just to ensure first class passengers get cakes?! "East coast apologies for the delay to the 1352 to Leeds this afternoon. This train is running 9 minutes late due to a shortage or fruitcake on a previous journey..."

 

[transmanche]

I don't know quite how regular it actually is-you are basing that on a handful of posts on here rather than hard evidence gathered from every east coast train that runs every day.

I'm basing it on the comments made here and my own experience and that of friends of mine. I'm not suggesting it happens on every service, but it seems to happen often enough that perhaps East Coast need to review the system. It's what every catering organisation would do.

I'm not entirely sure how serious you are about staff running to the shops en route but I assume it is a joke. If not then I would question weather you are seriously suggesting delaying a train and causing knock on delays to numerous other trains just to ensure first class passengers get cakes?!

Well it was slightly tongue-in-cheek, but I explicitly did not suggest that any trains should be delayed. In fact I suggested quite the opposite "to get a member of East Coast staff at Newcastle" - i.e. a member of station staff - to pop across the road.

If you've ever worked in a pub and the kitchen has run out of something - you'll find it's not uncommon for a member of staff to pop out to the nearest supermarket to get a suitable replacement. I've no doubt the same applies in other catering organisations, where the management are keen to deliver the advertised service.

 

[A-driver]

I see where you are coming from but being that east coast is not a catering organisation it is unlikely they will allow money to be spent on food not bought from its suppliers.

And I would imagine that if a member of staff was to take it upon themselves to buy the cake out if their own pocket they would have a very hard time claiming the money back from their employer and may end up personally buying food for passengers.

 

[transmanche]

I see where you are coming from but being that east coast is not a catering organisation it is unlikely they will allow money to be spent on food not bought from its suppliers.

Well clearly they are a catering organisation - as they offer a catering service on-board their trains. It may not be their primary service, but it is part of what they do.

When BA had problems with their catering a few years ago (a strike at Gate Gourmet?), they gave passengers a voucher at check-in so they could buy food/drink at the airport before boarding the aircraft - even on short-haul. Catering is not BA's primary service, but it is part of what they do - and management obviously thought it important to try and deliver a suitable alternative to their advertised service.

And I would imagine that if a member of staff was to take it upon themselves to buy the cake out if their own pocket they would have a very hard time claiming the money back from their employer and may end up personally buying food for passengers.

Who said anything about a member of staff paying for it out of their own pocket?

 

[tsr]

I see where you are coming from but being that east coast is not a catering organisation it is unlikely they will allow money to be spent on food not bought from its suppliers.

And I would imagine that if a member of staff was to take it upon themselves to buy the cake out if their own pocket they would have a very hard time claiming the money back from their employer and may end up personally buying food for passengers.

I believe the staff on FGW Travelling Chef services have arranged this sort of thing without undue hassle, and in fact I believe this was shown to the general public on the BBC programme which featured it recently. Now, I don't know if a similar system to FGW's could be arranged for EC, but I would hope it could be, if it isn't already.

 

[A-driver]

I hate to say it but it is sort if what I have been saying all along- east coast probably don't actually care. They offer what they can but their priority is running the trains. I would suggest that as nothing has apparently changed the majority of people are happy with the offerings-that is why they continue to sell plenty of first class tickets. The majority probably don't look into what they may be offered like those on here do and they are happy with what they are offered. If everyone felt as those on here do then first class usage would fall and EC would have to address the issue.

 

[StrollerEd]

There seem to be four possible trains to choose from, the first leaving in late afternoon and the last getting in very late.
16:30 / 20:52 , 4:22hrs

17:00 / 21:43 , 4:43hrs

17:30 / 22:17 , 4:47hrs

18:30 / 23:38 , 5:08hrs

Is there anything else, other than elapsed travel time to make for any difference if traveling FC? Does the quicker 16.30 serve as a hot meal straight-away, for example, or would that start at York/Newcastle (say)?

And, while I'm here What is the latest 'hot breakfast' train out of Kings Cross on a Saturday?

Thanks in advance for any helpful attention.

[Feeling nostalgic, so may try to visit the EC FC Hot Meals Thread - does it still simmer?]

 

[ModernRailways]

And, while I'm here What is the latest 'hot breakfast' train out of Kings Cross on a Saturday?

No hot food at the weekend. So no hot breakfast!

 

[njr001]

Yesterday mid morning, I travelled on a very lightly loaded first class train between Kings Cross and York and was very surprised by the attitude of the catering staff when a passenger joining at Peterborough was told that we won't be coming round with any sandwiches until after Newark, given that this person had started her journey in deepest Suffolk at about 7.00am I thought this was very bad service.

 

[ainsworth74]

17:00 / 21:43 , 4:43hrs

I've used that train and they served the hot option of the All-Day Menu straight on departure. I'd imagine the rest would be the same to be honest as Edinburgh is one of their main service points as far as I can gather.

 

[Essexman]

To counter those who are happy with the free offerings -

Tomorrow I have to go to York for work. It will be a long day. Leave about 8.00, home about 21.00. I only knew late yesterday so too late to get reasonably priced advance tickets.

A few years ago I would have enjoyed such a trip - breakfast on the way up & dinner on the way home. Now I cannot get a meal on the train so have the choice of eating in York and getting home an hour later or making do with a sandwich or paninni from the buffet. Rail has lost the advantage over road of being able to eat a meal while travelling so saving journey time.

This is not progress.

In the days of at seat meals cooked by a chef and ordered from a menu I would paid paid for a 1st class ticket on the return journey - and for the meal. Without this I am travelling Standard - East Coast have made my journey and day less pleasant and will be getting less money for my ticket.

 

[HST Power]

To counter those who are happy with the free offerings -

Tomorrow I have to go to York for work. It will be a long day. Leave about 8.00, home about 21.00. I only knew late yesterday so too late to get reasonably priced advance tickets.

A few years ago I would have enjoyed such a trip - breakfast on the way up & dinner on the way home. Now I cannot get a meal on the train so have the choice of eating in York and getting home an hour later or making do with a sandwich or paninni from the buffet. Rail has lost the advantage over road of being able to eat a meal while travelling so saving journey time.

This is not progress.

In the days of at seat meals cooked by a chef and ordered from a menu I would paid paid for a 1st class ticket on the return journey - and for the meal. Without this I am travelling Standard - East Coast have made my journey and day less pleasant and will be getting less money for my ticket.

Have I missed something here? I understand your point, but I don't see why you won't get breakfast?

 

[westv]

I've used that train and they served the hot option of the All-Day Menu straight on departure. I'd imagine the rest would be the same to be honest as Edinburgh is one of their main service points as far as I can gather.

18:30 gets the evening meal menu and quite nice it is too.

 

[Essexman]

Have I missed something here? I understand your point, but I don't see why you won't get breakfast?

I used to get breakfast in the restaurant. Now best I can get is bacon roll from buffet unless I pay alot for 1st class ticket.

 

[calc7]

18:30 gets the evening meal menu and quite nice it is too.

He is enquiring about southbound services, Edinburgh - Kings X!
(Though I agree the evening meal is a good product)