London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[Blindtraveler]

i've asked XC to get there finger out many many times and they aint listened. Something other tocs could teach them maybe?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . but theres in my mind listening to customers with your hearing aid off, and really, truly listening to them. . . . .

Excellent!!

I might have put it differently, "there's listenting to customers to hear what they think, and listening to customers to hear them when they say what you're waiting to hear".

But I prefer your analogy!

 

[ApAp]

We'll have shared a sitting in 'the last supper'!
But you're right to refer to 'the atmosphere'. That simply doesn't exist in 'normal' First Class accomodation. Might as well take our luck in standard, though remembering to avoid the 'everyone in Coach F crush' syndrome.

I agree with most of your comments but trimmed the quote to save space.

It was sad to be sitting in coach K last night, the previous Friday the source of so much fun and merriment and now a virtually empty quiet coach. The chef was a miracle worker on that service producing superb meals for an almost full coach K.

The atmosphere in the restaurant couldn't be beat. You met many interesting people and even a shy person like myself would get relaxed and talking after a glass or two of wine or beer. It was always interesting because you'd get a mix of people - some that'd never be able to travel first class but still appreciated a good meal. In their case (in non-ash cloud circumstances) they'd have a better experience now by flying and having a nice meal in the airport before take off.

I hated NXEC for what they did to GNER restaurants, but I got used to their changes and eventually acknowledged that if the restaurants were running at a loss then the at-seat pub food style menu was the way to go, it was nice how this menu was also available from the buffet for standard class, although not all crews mentioned this and it was never listed as an option on the website.

I wasn't too impressed with the service last night to be honest, but I won't mention the train I was on because the crew were nice and friendly and if they've done something not quite by the book I don't want them getting into trouble. It's a new service and everyone is currently learning how best to deliver it.

Comments about the new service:
- I was only allowed one alcoholic drink per bar run and there were only three bar runs on the trip from London to Newcastle. The least I've ever bought on the old service is four cans for a trip of this length - bear in mind the new cans are smaller (330ml - coke size).
- The appitiser served with the first drink run was some awful pastry thing in a plastic pot.
- The sausage and mash and dessert were nice enough (although the gap between the two was too big) but I always considered sausage and mash the cheap option when it's appeared on menus in the past and would have preferred lamb, fish or a nice steak or even the burger from the at-seat menu. I'll certainly miss the choice.
- Service was slow, but the staff did tell me that the non-quiet coaches were very busy and it'll take a while getting used to delivering this new service.

The new crockery does look nice though, it looked particularly nice when presented on the last day of the restaurant (although it would have been nice if they could have brought back some of the proper glasses just for that special occasion - assuming they're in storage somewhere and not yet disposed of).

I was happy to pay more for better food and better atmosphere. I liked the old first class because you could have whatever you wanted as long as it was on the train, orders taken and served at your seat.

 

[Failed Unit]

Excellent!!

I might have put it differently, "there's listenting to customers to hear what they think, and listening to customers to hear them when they say what you're waiting to hear".

But I prefer your analogy!

Yep, I was never asked myself :cry: But they lets have a look at some questions.

Bad Questions.
Do you like the current catering offer in First Class?
Would you miss the restuarant if it went?
Would you be happy if we offered you free sandwiches but removed the option to buy a burger (for example)
I see you have a "Park an Dine" ticket which includes a free course meal, are you happy with this?
Do you prefer our first class offer to Virgin? - Which I would answer no - I specifically avoid Virgin because I prefer east coast but as I live north of Edinburgh I may change my mind and use Virgin instead!

Good Questions
Do you feel that tea / coffee and a biscuit is good enough complementary for the you ticket price?
Do you want more "free stuff"

 

[silentone]

The next menu rotation has some onion bhaji sandwich (I can't remember what exactly it is and I don't have the book to hand)

There's smoked salmon and cream cheese (and I think the same week it's Egg & Cress). There is also a roasted vegetable and pesto sandwich.

The under 70minute rule for alcohol has been abandoned but remains for the meals and things.

If someone asks for 3 Gin & Tonics, that's greed, but they can certainly have it but all will be opened and at minimum the lids retained. I can only imagine some form of rationing taking place if you know there isn't going to be enough to go around, and certainly I've had to reduce the wine measures to make sure there was enough for everyone - that was really a result of the previous crew not ordering more wine for my crew.

You know even if someone wants a beer, wine & spirit they can have it but really that is greed, I'm certainly not getting into arguments onboard over this sort of thing!

 

[gordonthemoron]

XC should introduce bratwurst & goulash soup

 

[jon0844]

I am sure to begin with some people will be greedy, but eventually you just take what you want. It's probably WAY too early to see how things work out over the coming weeks, even months, as the ad campaigns presumably attract new business.

Opening every can/bottle is a good idea to stop people finding it as an alternative to shopping when they get home!

 

[amcluesent]

>The under 70minute rule for alcohol has been abandoned but remains for the meals and things<

Yep. North bound crews seems to have effectively side-stepped saying 'no' to PBO commuters by not taking orders for the meals until the train is 30+ mins out of London.

 

[ApAp]

If someone asks for 3 Gin & Tonics, that's greed, but they can certainly have it but all will be opened and at minimum the lids retained. I can only imagine some form of rationing taking place if you know there isn't going to be enough to go around, and certainly I've had to reduce the wine measures to make sure there was enough for everyone - that was really a result of the previous crew not ordering more wine for my crew.

I asked for two beers which I thought was perfectly reasonable (the cans are small like on an airline) but was told it was one per round. Of course that could be just to ensure that there was enough to go round - the quiet coach was, erm, quiet but the other two coaches were busy.

 

[All Line Rover]

the quiet coach was, erm, quiet but the other two coaches were busy.

What does everyone have against the quiet coach? I can't get my head around it. I think it's an excellent idea and about time too - us leisure travellers want peace and quiet. We don't want to listen to some businessman chatting away on his mobile phone!

Virgin Trains have a quiet coach and it works fine. I don't see why East Coast is different.

 

[Failed Unit]

What does everyone have against the quiet coach? I can't get my head around it. I think it's an excellent idea and about time too - us leisure travellers want peace and quiet. We don't want to listen to some businessman chatting away on his mobile phone!

Virgin Trains have a quiet coach and it works fine. I don't see why East Coast is different.

I have nothing against it as long as I am not forced to sit in it! But when you have 3 coaches of first class that is 1/3 of your seats quite compared to 1/4 on Virgin.

They need to change the booking engine to have "quite coach / no preference / not quite coach"

On the 0540 on Monday most people ignored the quite coach with headset as no-one wanted to be in it, but it was that or stand! BTW babies can go in the quite coach

Quite coach - good idea as long as the ratio works, I would have used the former smoking area on the mk4 as the quite area myself.

 

[All Line Rover]

I have nothing against it as long as I am not forced to sit in it! But when you have 3 coaches of first class that is 1/3 of your seats quite compared to 1/4 on Virgin.

They need to change the booking engine to have "quite coach / no preference / not quite coach"

On the 0540 on Monday most people ignored the quite coach with headset as no-one wanted to be in it, but it was that or stand! BTW babies can go in the quite coach

Quite coach - good idea as long as the ratio works, I would have used the former smoking area on the mk4 as the quite area myself.

I agree that they should prove a "not quiet coach" option. It surprises me that East Coast reserve people in it when they select "no preference" though, as Virgin reserve you in it only when you select "quiet coach." (In my experience.)

 

[YorkshireRider]

Most on board staff agree with that, the ratio is out a bit, fine on a HST (coach J) but as you say would have been better to move the old smoking partition back another row and then put the old door back in on mark 4s, (that would leave 13 seats). I dont mind politely inforcing it at quiet/lesuire times of day or weekend but not at peak times when the train is very busy with business customers

 

[ApAp]

What does everyone have against the quiet coach? I can't get my head around it. I think it's an excellent idea and about time too - us leisure travellers want peace and quiet. We don't want to listen to some businessman chatting away on his mobile phone!

Virgin Trains have a quiet coach and it works fine. I don't see why East Coast is different.

Well I specifically booked the quiet coach, but I was surprised how empty it is and when I asked the crew if the train was normally this quiet they pointed out that the other two coaches were almost full.

 

[Essexman]

Have sent this email to East Coast Customer Service today. Not that it will make any difference but I feel strongly and want them to know.


Dear Sirs

I am writing to express my disappointment about your new catering.

I travel regularly on East Coast, sometimes First Class & sometimes Standard. One of the main reasons I chose First Class was in order to have a choice from a menu of freshly cooked meals, for which like most business travellers I am prepared to pay.

Having seen your complimentary menu I consider this far inferior to both the at-seat & restaurant services. Hence I will now be far less likely to travel First Class. Not only will East Coast lose the extra income from my First Class fare and food purchase, but you have now lost the advantage over Hull Trains and Grand Central, so I will now also be using their services.

For example, this week I travelled to Bridlington, out & return in the middle of the day, and as a result of the catering change, chose to travel Standard Class.

It was also disappointing to find that the buffet menu has also changed and that there are no hot meals available. Not only have you lost the ‘At-Seat’ menu that was available in the buffet, but also cottage pie, fish pie & lasagne. The only hot food it now paninis.

How disappointing and what a shadow of the service that GNER provided.

Yours sincerely

 

[amcluesent]

TBH, I thought 'K is quiet' has been discretely abandoned like the 70 mins for booze idea. It's very infrequently announced out of KGX and no signage on windows etc.

I must admit to using my music player in K, but I have in-ears and they don't 'tizz' at all which I think counts as being considerate as per request. Anyways, trying to scold the Dom Jolly types in 1st seems to be a lost cause.

Back OT, on my service this evening the crews were getting the hot meals out within 25 mins of leaving KGX which is quite an improvement.

 

[ApAp]

TBH, I thought 'K is quiet' has been discretely abandoned like the 70 mins for booze idea. It's very infrequently announced out of KGX and no signage on windows etc.

I must admit to using my music player in K, but I have in-ears and they don't 'tizz' at all. Anyways, trying to scold the Dom Jolly types in 1st seems to be a lost cause.

Back OT, on my service this evening the crews were getting the hot meals out within 25 mins of leaving KGX which is quite an improvement.

The signs aren't on the windows, they're more subtle than that. They are where the seat numbers are displayed and at the end of the carriages. It's easy to not notice if you're sitting there.

 

[silentone]

Have sent this email to East Coast Customer Service today. Not that it will make any difference but I feel strongly and want them to know.


Dear Sirs

I am writing to express my disappointment about your new catering.

I travel regularly on East Coast, sometimes First Class & sometimes Standard. One of the main reasons I chose First Class was in order to have a choice from a menu of freshly cooked meals, for which like most business travellers I am prepared to pay.

Having seen your complimentary menu I consider this far inferior to both the at-seat & restaurant services. Hence I will now be far less likely to travel First Class. Not only will East Coast lose the extra income from my First Class fare and food purchase, but you have now lost the advantage over Hull Trains and Grand Central, so I will now also be using their services.

For example, this week I travelled to Bridlington, out & return in the middle of the day, and as a result of the catering change, chose to travel Standard Class.

It was also disappointing to find that the buffet menu has also changed and that there are no hot meals available. Not only have you lost the ‘At-Seat’ menu that was available in the buffet, but also cottage pie, fish pie & lasagne. The only hot food it now paninis.

How disappointing and what a shadow of the service that GNER provided.

Yours sincerely

Fish Pie & Cottage Pie went a long time ago. They were quite cheap & nasty if we're honest. The other meals were of improved quality but on a HST there is actually a logistical restraint which means it's near impossible to heat these. On a MK4 not so much. However the focus is now on First Class. People want to feel like it's First Class and as such this new way of working is all about them.

Only very few people seem have a negative response so far and that has been the length of time it's taken to get food but that's down to higher loadings, over 5000 more on Tuesday. People are generally impressed and today I actually managed to complete a full service of meals! *claps*

The Red wine in the chillers has been sorted.

The menu's still have the 70 minute rule on alcohol but it has been officially abandoned. If they want they can have. Still some greed but it's to be expected.

Meals will come quicker when crews realise that if they prepare them before going up to offer them it's far quicker. I got on and put the Biryani's in the oven, then plated up around 12 Salads (only requiring dressing) and prepared plates ready for the meal out the oven! Off we went with food and the service was done and dusted in record time! Drinks cart was a couple of tables ahead of the food service the entire time, a very successful trip and no complaints or grumbles. See improving already. By Friday it'll be like second nature to everyone!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Well done you. Sounds like its payin off and working. I too agree the fish pie, cottage pie etc were, urm, not great, thanks natex for introducing them, thanx and good riddence EC for disposing of them. i agree it would be nice for a few more meal options to be offered at the bar but that may yet come once you guys hav got the fc service rite and as said earlier, sounds like your doing well.

 

[ApAp]

Well done you. Sounds like its payin off and working. I too agree the fish pie, cottage pie etc were, urm, not great, thanks natex for introducing them, thanx and good riddence EC for disposing of them. i agree it would be nice for a few more meal options to be offered at the bar but that may yet come once you guys hav got the fc service rite and as said earlier, sounds like your doing well.

I'm sure the fish pie and cottage pie were East Coast creations.

Gmail is wonderful - quick search for East Coast cottage pie shows I was right. Email sent 29/01/2010 introducing their new 'winter warmers' menu.

They weren't brilliant (I think the curries that replaced them were somewhat better) - but better than nothing if you're travelling standard.

 

[Blindtraveler]

appologies, my mistake. Yeh, have just done exact same. Wil miss the pasta, although doubt my shirt will

 

[ApAp]

appologies, my mistake. Yeh, have just done exact same. Wil miss the pasta, although doubt my shirt will

Not everything was bad about NXEC, they did after all introduce their first class at seat menu on selected weekend services. It was nice to have a burger and chips and maybe a dessert with whatever you want to drink also served at seat.

I hope everyone adopts silentone's policy of doing weekend drinks orders from the bar when time permits.

Prior to this there was no chef service on a weekend barring some restaurant trials GNER did, however even though the trials were mentioned in Livewire magazine customer relations couldn't say which trains would have the trial restaurant on it - therefore dooming the trial to failure.

Anyway, although it'll never be as good as the restaurant in my eyes I understand that it's a new service and will give it a fair try. But my initial feeling is this makes first less attractive for me.

Others will disagree and will see this as a reason to upgrade.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Have done the highland chiefton from INV - EDB 2 or 3 times a year for the last cupple of years and always went first for a restaurant breakfast. Am booked again next month and will be keen to see how it compares although no beens? Y? A few foalk at work have said this. Its not a chritisism, but maybe Silentone or yorkshire rider can shed light on this?

 

[silentone]

It was NXEC who brought in those Pies, they then started the Winter Warmers thing but they had been on-board for sometime.

I guess there are no beans simply because of the practicality of serving them to everyone, whilst ensuring all Breakfast services have consistency. You can also only get Scrambled Egg and that was down to consistency. It might well be something that's looked at in the future.

It is quite possible the bar meals may have been coming off the menu for Summer anyway. They may well return after Summer.

There's plenty of horror stories about this new service, but in the first few days nothing was going to be great. Personally I'd travel First just for the alcohol and drinks, a little nibble on a sandwich and some crisps is a bonus!

 

[ainsworth74]

silentone do you know if they will be putting the cafeBar menu back on the EC website at some point soon? Failing that does the cafeBar still offer the old breakfast panini?

 

[richa2002]

The complementaries are fine but it doesn't get away from the fact that on most services, it's not possible to have anything that substantial that I would consider a meal and as a result, is a reduction in service in my opinion.

 

[ApAp]

I'm happy with the afternoon tea service. I think it's the right offering for that time of day. Although traditionally I used to delay lunch to get a burger from the at-seat menu I noticed I was well in the minority.

As most people will already have had lunch then the offering of some small sandwiches and scones or fruit cake will go down well. So in future I'll have a light lunch before leaving the house and enjoy the new offering.

Tea and coffee runs have been more frequent today which is good for an afternoon tea service.

I'd like to see the addition of small bottles of champagne for this service just like BA offer in Club Europe, it goes down well with a sandwich and scone.

The quiet coach is busier today and a number of people don't seem aware what it is as there's a number of phone conversations going on but nothing I'd consider annoying.

A few people have ordered the curry so at least there's a more substantial option left for those.

But as I suspect these services are used a lot less by those wanting to dine I'd say afternoon tea is a big enhancement for most.

 

[silentone]

silentone do you know if they will be putting the cafeBar menu back on the EC website at some point soon? Failing that does the cafeBar still offer the old breakfast panini?

There were no changes to the Cafe Bar menu other than the removal of the Lasagne, Korma & Vegetable Curry.

 

[Essexman]

The complementaries are fine but it doesn't get away from the fact that on most services, it's not possible to have anything that substantial that I would consider a meal and as a result, is a reduction in service in my opinion.

Agree.
I look at this like airline food. Don't rely on getting a proper meal - anything decent is a bonus.
What a shame the way our railways are turning into planes & buses.

 

[amcluesent]

Day 4 etc...

An innovation! The stick-on 'red dot' which get applied to your place-mat if you've ordered the hot food. Maybe this is crew specific idea, but was being used on my service out of KGX this evening. Do they do it to prevent 'double-dipping'?

In other news, the sandwiches were down to two only and this crew asked for destination before offering these. I didn't take any chances