London Terminals/Boundary Zone 5 to Southampton Central

[skizz]

Afternoon all,

First thank you to all of you on the forum who have helped me in the past, you do a great thing helping people and I'm back (again)...

Here's the situation.

I have an annual gold card for zones 1-5. I also have a 16-25 railcard but I am aware that my annual season ticket also entitles me to a Network Railcard.

We are travelling to Southampton Central from London Waterloo on the 27th January for the day, leaving at approx 3pm and returning at approx 10pm. There are definitely two of us travelling, but potentially up to four of us, and with the network railcard in tow I'm thinking I can use this to our advantage.

My initial plan was to get a ticket from Boundary Zone 5 to Southampton for myself but I may change this if it means everyone getting a cheaper fare. With this in mind here are my questions:

1. What do I have to do, if anything, to get a network railcard for myself with my annual gold card? Do I need a separate card or do I just show my gold card season ticket?

2. If I want my friends to make use of my network railcard, do I also have to buy a ticket? That is to say, can I use the BZ5 - SOU ticket for myself then buy the other network railcard-discounted tickets for my friends?

3. If the answer to (2) is no, is the cheapest ticket the standard day return?

4. If the answer to (2) is yes, is it possible to buy the BZ5 - SOU ticket online anywhere?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Be3G]

I'm not entirely clear what you need a Network Railcard for. Are you perhaps unaware that your gold card already does everything that the aforementioned railcard does, and more besides?

Further complicating matters, however, is that for four people travelling together GroupSave can work out cheaper, because for that number of people it gives you 50% off rather than 33% off. So the cheapest combination of tickets will likely depend on the exact number of companions you have on the day.

Either way, tickets from boundary zones are unfortunately not available to purchase online.

 

[bb21]

An additional Network Railcard is not required for up to four people.

Do your companions actually need a Travelcard? That may well be more expensive than point-to-point tickets.

 

[skizz]

I'm not entirely clear what you need a Network Railcard for. Are you perhaps unaware that your gold card already does everything that the aforementioned railcard does, and more besides?

Further complicating matters, however, is that for four people travelling together GroupSave can work out cheaper, because for that number of people it gives you 50% off rather than 33% off. So the cheapest combination of tickets will likely depend on the exact number of companions you have on the day.

Either way, tickets from boundary zones are unfortunately not available to purchase online.

GroupSave eh, a new challenger enters...

That's for a minimum of 4, am I correct? there may only be 2 or 3 of us travelling.

And regarding my travelcard/network railcard scenario, I didn't know that. So if I take my gold oyster card onto the train with the prepurchased network railcard tickets, is this sufficient to get the discount approved if checked on board?
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An additional Network Railcard is not required for up to four people.

Do your companions actually need a Travelcard? That may well be more expensive than point-to-point tickets.

We're meeting at Waterloo, so them getting there is their problem

So can I buy the zone 5 - southampton ticket for myself and the additional tickets at 1/3 off for them, or is it a prerequisite that I use my gold card discount before buying tickets for others?

 

[bb21]

GroupSave is for a maximum of four adults and four children, and three adults may travel for the price of two. There is no price advantage for two adults travelling together.

For point-to-point tickets, you can use your Gold Card to purchase discounted tickets for up to four people. You do not have to pay for the section already covered by your Gold Card for your ticket.

 

[Be3G]

So if I take my gold oyster card onto the train with the prepurchased network railcard tickets, is this sufficient to get the discount approved if checked on board?

A small, mostly semantic point: your Gold Card isn't a Network Railcard, and your tickets therefore need to have a Gold Card discount applied to them, not a Network Railcard discount. The two do have different rules about the application of their discount, which won't affect you in this case, but you should be aware that the two aren't the same nonetheless.

Your Gold Card does, however, allow you to purchase a normal Network Railcard for somebody else for £1, which I assume is the source of your slight confusion.

 

[bb21]

Also you mentioned that you have your Travelcard season on Oyster. Do you mean then that you have a Gold Record Card rather than a Gold Card season ticket?

 

[skizz]

Also you mentioned that you have your Travelcard season on Oyster. Do you mean then that you have a Gold Record Card rather than a Gold Card season ticket?

Yes, I have a record card of my annual season ticket that is on my Oyster. I was sent a letter when I ordered it online enclosing the gold record card and telling me that I was entitled to a network railcard, as Be3G correctly said, for the cost of £1. are the gold card and network railcard discounts not the same then?

Also does the same premise apply with my oyster, that if I have to procure a separate network railcard I only pay for the section not covered by my travelcard?

 

[bb21]

are the gold card and network railcard discounts not the same then?

They are not. For a start, Network Railcard-discounted tickets are subject to a minimum fare of £13 on weekdays, whereas this does not apply to Gold Card-discounted tickets.

Also does the same premise apply with my oyster, that if I have to procure a separate network railcard I only pay for the section not covered by my travelcard?

You only have to pay for the section not covered by your Travelcard. If the journey is entirely covered by your season ticket then you do not have to purchase a ticket for yourself.

I cannot find any reference as to what ticket you should purchase for yourself should the journey be partially covered by your season ticket while using a Network Railcard in conjunction with your season ticket. I would however imagine that you will only be required to pay for the section not covered by your Travelcard season rather than the whole journey, as per the arrangement for Gold Card, although I can be wrong on this.

 

[Tetchytyke]

National Rail Enquiries' page on gold cards is (semi) illuminating.

Your gold card is better than a network railcard. There is no minimum ticket charge, and you are entitled to buy a first class upgrade for £5 (when not travelling on your travelcard).

Your "gold record card" is your gold card. I don't see why you would buy a network railcard for yourself. Anyone with a gold card discount has to travel with the gold card holder. My partner has a network railcard (bought for £1) for the occasions when she doesn't travel with me.

When buying your tickets, you select "network gold card", and this will apply the 33% discount to your ticket and those of up to three other adults.

 

[Be3G]

National Rail Enquiries' page on gold cards is (semi) illuminating.

Your gold card is better than a network railcard. There is no minimum ticket charge, and you are entitled to buy a first class upgrade for £5 (when not travelling on your travelcard).

I linked to that earlier. (Not very obviously, I admit.) It's also worth noting that the £5 first class upgrade is available over the route covered by the season tickets on weekends on public holidays – the NRE page doesn't make this very clear.

 

[soil]

You can buy a Brighton - Southampton (not via London) ticket online (or at the station). This ticket is valid Brighton - Clapham Junction - Southampton. It's a little cheaper than BZ5, and you can buy it online. It would be valid in conjunction with your season ticket to Southampton.

For travellers without a travelcard season the train would have to call at Clapham Junction and they would also need a London Waterloo - Clapham Junction ticket to cover that part of the journey. The 15:05 (direct) and 15:20 services (changing at Basingstoke), the 15:39 and the 16:05 (both direct) trains call at Clapham Junction. Only the 15:35 at that time of day doesn't call.

 

[skizz]

Nice one guys. Think the gold card discount is the most straightforward (as don't know how many people are going) so will sort it that way. Probably best to go to ticket office as can't get the BZ5 - SOU ticket online?

 

[greatkingrat]

In this case, you could just buy a Berrylands - Southampton (rte Woking) ticket online as it is the same price as the BZ5 version.

 

[maniacmartin]

In this case, you could just buy a Berrylands - Southampton (rte Woking) ticket online as it is the same price as the BZ5 version.

But the other travellers may not be combining with a season, so won't necessarily be able to technically do this as a 19C split.

 

[bb21]

The other passengers are probably buying tickets for the whole journey.

 

[skizz]

Correct, they are buying for the whole WAT - SOU journey.

I will buy the Berrylands - SOU ticket and then sort their tickets for the whole trip.

One more question - if I order the tickets online, what discount do I select? Is it simply Gold Card?

The fact I can simply use my gold card as the discount card (if that is correct) has confused me in that, why would you pay the additional £1 for a Network Railcard? It's not transferable I presume?

 

[maniacmartin]

Yes, order them all with the Gold Card discount.

The intention is you use the Gold card for yourself, and can buy a 1 pound Network Railcard for your partner or another family member so they can use it without you being present. It is still informally referred to as the Partner Card or Partner Network Railcard by some people.

 

[skizz]

Ah, great explanation! Thanks for all your help guys.

 

[SAPhil]

You can buy a Brighton - Southampton (not via London) ticket online (or at the station). This ticket is valid Brighton - Clapham Junction - Southampton. It's a little cheaper than BZ5, and you can buy it online. It would be valid in conjunction with your season ticket to Southampton.

For travellers without a travelcard season the train would have to call at Clapham Junction and they would also need a London Waterloo - Clapham Junction ticket to cover that part of the journey. The 15:05 (direct) and 15:20 services (changing at Basingstoke), the 15:39 and the 16:05 (both direct) trains call at Clapham Junction. Only the 15:35 at that time of day doesn't call.

I'm always a bit confused by this. Given that the 15:05 and 16:05 trains are timetabled as stop to pick up only is a waterloo to clapham juntion ticket valid on those trains?

 

[bb21]

I'm always a bit confused by this. Given that the 15:05 and 16:05 trains are timetabled as stop to pick up only is a waterloo to clapham juntion ticket valid on those trains?

Condition 19(b) makes no mention that the train has to stop to both pick up and set down, although I know some people will argue that a pick-up only stop is not a proper stop.

 

[skizz]

Interesting about the Brighton - Southampton ticket. Will look into it!

 

[bb21]

Buying a GroupSave 4 Brighton ticket is likely to be offering you the best value overall if there are four people travelling. Similarly with GroupSave 3. Just be careful that if you do decide to go ahead with the Brighton ticket, you will need a ticket for yourself as well.

If you do decide to go ahead with the Brighton ticket idea, I recommend that you all get to Clapham Junction via other means, perhaps by making use of low fares offered by Oyster PAYG, and board the Southampton service at Clapham Junction. This way you avoid the potential argument mentioned above.

SWT website will sell GroupSave tickets with an appropriate itinerary given. You might wish to do so and print out an itinerary for reference while travelling.

 

[skizz]

We all live in Croydon way so may yet make sense to get to Clapham by other means. Best to exit the barriers at clapham with the Oyster then re-enter using the paper tickets?

 

[MikeWh]

We all live in Croydon way so may yet make sense to get to Clapham by other means. Best to exit the barriers at clapham with the Oyster then re-enter using the paper tickets?

Errr, the Brighton to Southampton ticket is valid between East Croydon and Clapham Junction as well. No further ticket required.

 

[Urban Gateline]

We all live in Croydon way so may yet make sense to get to Clapham by other means. Best to exit the barriers at clapham with the Oyster then re-enter using the paper tickets?

You can also use the Brighton to Southampton ticket for that Journey, as it IS valid via East Croydon and then via Clapham Junction!

 

[skizz]

Errr, the Brighton to Southampton ticket is valid between East Croydon and Clapham Junction as well. No further ticket required.

Confused myself for a while - I will be travelling from Waterloo to join the train at Clapham, but having an oyster season ticket I don't need to tap out to be charged correctly. The other gentlemen will be travelling from East Croydon so they will need to meet me at Clapham, as they can't travel on these tickets without me present - correct?

 

[bb21]

Confused myself for a while - I will be travelling from Waterloo to join the train at Clapham, but having an oyster season ticket I don't need to tap out to be charged correctly. The other gentlemen will be travelling from East Croydon so they will need to meet me at Clapham, as they can't travel on these tickets without me present - correct?

Correct. Why don't you go down to East Croydon and meet them there? It won't cost you anything extra seeing that you have a Zones 1-5 Travelcard.

I thought you were their friend?

 

[skizz]

Correct. Why don't you go down to East Croydon and meet them there? It won't cost you anything extra seeing that you have a Zones 1-5 Travelcard.

I thought you were their friend?

Bit of a delayed reply - I would but I don't get out of work early enough