London underground strike

[gavin]

London Underground drivers have voted to strike for 24 hours

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33180965

 

[455driver]

So they want to introduce a lot of night shifts and think a one off payment of £500 is all that's needed!

 

[Greenback]

Genuine question - do drivers get extra pay for working nights now? Like, between 2000 and 0500 or something?

(I used to get a small additional amount for hours worked after some time in the evening, but I forget how much it was and what hours were covered, and I think it's all been stopped now in return for higher basic pay anyway).

 

[455driver]

We don't but I knew there were night shifts when I took the job so knew what I was taking on.

 

[chris11256]

BBC are reporting the strike will be on July 8th from 21:30.

This suits me perfectly as I'm off work that week.

 

[Greenback]

We don't but I knew there were night shifts when I took the job so knew what I was taking on.

Quite right, but increasing the number of night turns from 0 or 1 in 20 to maybe 3 in 8 would presumably make a big difference to some people's work life balance.

(As you can tell I have no idea of what night turns are currently worked or proposed!)

 

[Dstock7080]

Genuine question - do drivers get extra pay for working nights now? Like, between 2000 and 0500 or something?

As we are now salaried no additional payments for extreme shifts are paid.

Another reason for going into dispute are the changes to Framework Agreement, allowing Night shifts to to worked with only 12hrs rest. (Previously aligned as 'early shift' only)

 

[Greenback]

As we are now salaried no additional payments for extreme shifts are paid.

That's what I thought. Thanks for confirming.

Another reason for going into dispute are the changes to Framework Agreement, allowing Night shifts to to worked with only 12hrs rest. (Previously aligned as 'early shift' only)

That's not something I'd be happy with.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

There are certain cynics who believe because night tube is unattainable by the target date (nor desired by many within management at all) that a strike is being engineered in order to blame the unions for failure to implement on time.

 

[Greenback]

There are certain cynics who believe because night tube is unattainable by the target date (nor desired by many within management at all) that a strike is being engineered in order to blame the unions for failure to implement on time.

Now that is cynical! But also believable!

 

[Tetchytyke]

The bloke behind the "ASLEF shrugged" blog has been saying that for ages. I can well believe it.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I wonder how often 'Night Tube' will be operated by rail replacement buses ?

 

[Mojo]

We don't but I knew there were night shifts when I took the job so knew what I was taking on.

There are already night duties at many depots, but in order to accommodate Night Tube, a lot more night duties will be required.

RMT, Tssa and Unite members are also being balloted over Night Tube, stations changes, and pay; ballots close on June 30th.

 

[Robertj21a]

Is the intention that night tubes are operated by a dedicated group of 'Only nights' staff - or are staff in general expected to be mixed between night/day shifts ?

 

[lonogrol]

Is the intention that night tubes are operated by a dedicated group of 'Only nights' staff - or are staff in general expected to be mixed between night/day shifts ?

Many staff already work nights and they shall continue to work nights that they do work at the mo.

In terms of train op's as someone already said plenty of depots already have night turn drivers. They are planning to give depots the choice whether to resource additional night turns on fri/sat nights by either having part time t-op's or by moving to a link system with them mixed in with the dead lates.

Station supervisors (in the new world Customer Service manager or Customer Service supervisor) already work nights, but the planned rosters would see them doing their own week of nights (as usual) and then at another point in the roster working fri/sat nights for the purpose of covering meal reliefs. In some cases theyd come back to work as an early on a monday!!!

CSA's will be made up of part time nights only staff working 11p.m.-7a.m. fri/sat ... but no-one have said if cover weeks or spare dutys will be used to cover nights.

Service control and duty managers also already work nights, and there has been no information about who will cover for meal reliefs on nights or if there will be any additional support to manage crew reliefs when the job's up the wall or sort out incidents.

 

[Greenback]

Working a Saturday night turn followed by an early on Monday should, quite simply, not be allowed!

 

[Mojo]

Working a Saturday night turn followed by an early on Monday should, quite simply, not be allowed!

I know a regular night man who does a night on Saturday and a dead early on Monday, entirely through choice!

 

[Dstock7080]

Working a Saturday night turn followed by an early on Monday should, quite simply, not be allowed!

Or, finish a Thursday late turn at around 0145 then be ready for two Night shifts starting at around 2230 on Friday, is proposed.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Mafia men should not be exempted from the rules !

 

[Greenback]

I know a regular night man who does a night on Saturday and a dead early on Monday, entirely through choice!

Some people just don't know what's good for them
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Or, finish a Thursday late turn at around 0145 then be ready for two Night shifts starting at around 2230 on Friday, is proposed.

I don't really think that's acceptable either. Not a long enough period in between turns at all for my liking.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Some people just don't know what's good for them
.

Some people used to argue about banked rest days - I managed to get 12 weeks off together and go for a trip round the world with them.
Then there are some people who prefer to stay at work and be a martyr to the cause so that they have reason to indulge in their favourite past time of continual moaning.

 

[Robertj21a]

Working a Saturday night turn followed by an early on Monday should, quite simply, not be allowed!

Not sure I understand. Presumably, a Saturday night turn finishes on Sunday about .......08.00 - 09.00 ?. Early Monday start might be 04.30 -ish ?. If it's a 7-day service, how come 18-20 hours break isn't enough ?

 

[Mojo]

Not sure I understand. Presumably, a Saturday night turn finishes on Sunday about .......08.00 - 09.00 ?. Early Monday start might be 04.30 -ish ?. If it's a 7-day service, how come 18-20 hours break isn't enough ?

Have you ever worked nights, or dead earlies?

It is not the time between finishing one shift & starting another (which is subject to legal restrictions), but working out when you will go to sleep. If you go from nights to a dead early then you either have the choice to stay up all day on Sunday (if you can physically manage it, and be extremely tired), or go to sleep like normal when you get home from work, and struggle to get to sleep that night, and be extremely fatigued and tired the next morning when you wake up and are at work.

 

[A-driver]

Not sure I understand. Presumably, a Saturday night turn finishes on Sunday about .......08.00 - 09.00 ?. Early Monday start might be 04.30 -ish ?. If it's a 7-day service, how come 18-20 hours break isn't enough ?

Seriously? You can't see the problem?! Read it again and have a good think about it practically.

Where would you sleep? Get home at 0830 on Sunday and sleep until when? 1500 (less than a full nights sleep) then spend a few hours half conscious. For a 0430 start on Monday you probably want to be in bed at 2000. Not going to be easy getting to sleep having woken up at 1500.

Plus it completely writes off your day off which you are not being paid for. They can call it a day off but you will find yourself in an awful, ratty mood and not what most people would call a day off.

 

[Robertj21a]

Seriously? You can't see the problem?! Read it again and have a good think about it practically.

Where would you sleep? Get home at 0830 on Sunday and sleep until when? 1500 (less than a full nights sleep) then spend a few hours half conscious. For a 0430 start on Monday you probably want to be in bed at 2000. Not going to be easy getting to sleep having woken up at 1500.

Plus it completely writes off your day off which you are not being paid for. They can call it a day off but you will find yourself in an awful, ratty mood and not what most people would call a day off.

Fair enough, it's annoying if it is a regular occurrence, but depends on how often. I've worked much the same arrangement and used to sleep for about 3 hours when I got in. Your body/mind is largely refreshed after that brief time and I was back into a 'normal' day - and sleep pattern - ready for the following morning.

 

[Hadders]

Fair enough, it's annoying if it is a regular occurrence, but depends on how often. I've worked much the same arrangement and used to sleep for about 3 hours when I got in. Your body/mind is largely refreshed after that brief time and I was back into a 'normal' day - and sleep pattern - ready for the following morning.

It's relatively easy to burn the candle at both ends when you're in your 20's.
It gets far, far harder the older you get.

 

[Mojo]

Fair enough, it's annoying if it is a regular occurrence, but depends on how often. I've worked much the same arrangement and used to sleep for about 3 hours when I got in. Your body/mind is largely refreshed after that brief time and I was back into a 'normal' day - and sleep pattern - ready for the following morning.

Surely that's you? I struggle to get by on any less than 8 Hr sleep, and certainly can't have anything more than a brief nap unless I've done a full day between waking up and going back to sleep.

 

[Greenback]

I really struggled with a 2315 Saturday finish and an 0500 start on Monday. Granted, I'd done five straight days of lates, so my body was used to having a lie in, but even if was just one late shift it still wouldn't be easy.

Every one is different but it's the cumulative effect that these sort of change overs have on a person that really worries me. I worked a total of about nine years on all sorts of shift patterns, and I do wonder what the long term effect on me has been.

 

[Busaholic]

Two months of working alternate weeks 2-10 p.m. then 6 p.m.to 2 am. back in 1979 and my sleep patterns have never recovered - I was 31 then.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think my sleep patterns have ever recovered fully. They are better now than they were when I was a shift worker, though.