Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

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More likely just feeling left out, if Lothian thought it would be worthwhile then I'm sure they would put some form of service into Midlothian.
Exactly. It’s clearly not viable. I doubt East Lothian is either - but the council are subsidising it so it’s being run.
The people in Midlothian that want a service need to get in touch with Midlothian Council - they’re the few don there’s no service.
 
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Jordan Adam

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Noticed this in council docs - seems Lothian are planning on withdrawing the 6 soon.
Can't say i'm surprised, i've never used it but from what i understood it was only the occasional tourist who used it and even then they likely have Tour tickets or walk anyway.
 
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Can't say i'm surprised, i've never used it but from what i understood it was only the occasional tourist who used it and even then they likely have Tour tickets or walk anyway.
Think it was to appease very long standing complaints from Dumbiedykes residents, who wanted (and petitioned for) a closer bus service of some kind. It's difficult to find anything commercially viable that would suit them.
I expect it has been considered before, but you'd think service 13 could take a different route in the city centre and serve The Pleasance - maybe down to Dalkeith Road instead of Lochend. Although I think Lochend residents are quite protective of their poorly-used bus services too.
 

A330Alex

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Can't say i'm surprised, i've never used it but from what i understood it was only the occasional tourist who used it and even then they likely have Tour tickets or walk anyway.
Indeed! Presents a interesting challenge for the council however, as if they want to close the High St during the Festival again there won't be any other buses nearby in the Holyrood area.
Not surprised, im still surprised about the fact is has frequent deckers on it aswell, like getting a pair shoes delivered in 55” TV box
I've noticed a lot of deckers on the 61 recently too which just looks silly. I guess it's down to the StreetAirs being MIA at the moment?
 
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Noticed this in council docs - seems Lothian are planning on withdrawing the 6 soon.
As others have said, I’m not surprised. I’ve never seen more than a couple of people on board at any time.
I've noticed a lot of deckers on the 61 recently too which just looks silly. I guess it's down to the StreetAirs being MIA at the moment?
That’d be my guess
 

DunsBus

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Think it was to appease very long standing complaints from Dumbiedykes residents, who wanted (and petitioned for) a closer bus service of some kind. It's difficult to find anything commercially viable that would suit them.
I expect it has been considered before, but you'd think service 13 could take a different route in the city centre and serve The Pleasance - maybe down to Dalkeith Road instead of Lochend. Although I think Lochend residents are quite protective of their poorly-used bus services too.
Dumbiedykes has never been profitable bus-operating territory. The old 45 and 60 pre-deregulation only went there during the day - both were daytime-only services in any case - at nights and on Sundays, it was a walk either to the Canongate to get the 1/6 circle, or to either the Bridges or St Leonard's to get any of the services serving these areas. More recently you had Mac Tours and then ECL trying to run the 60 commercially, both times without success.

I do have some sympathy for the Dumbiedykes residents, but the bottom line is that there's no demand there for a bus service, the 6 is running at a loss and you don't run a bus service if it's losing money.
They've coped before without a direct bus service to the area; they can do so again!
 
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Think it was to appease very long standing complaints from Dumbiedykes residents, who wanted (and petitioned for) a closer bus service of some kind. It's difficult to find anything commercially viable that would suit them.
I expect it has been considered before, but you'd think service 13 could take a different route in the city centre and serve The Pleasance - maybe down to Dalkeith Road instead of Lochend. Although I think Lochend residents are quite protective of their poorly-used bus services too.
I used the 6 a couple of times since it launched and I only ever saw maybe 2-3 people on it including myself! Heck even when the 36 ran down to Holyrood I couldn’t recall that section being particularly popular, and the 60 I’m pretty sure was 80% dead when it ran

Holyrood will still have the 35 to be fair, when the 6 launched I was sure it wasn’t going to last long (like the short lived 43 to Barnton :lol:) The Sunday service getting cut was an obvious sign the service was gonna get scrapped eventually!

Like Dunbus said I too have sympathy for the Dunbiedykes residents, plus the many work places down near Holyrood like Dynamic Earth and Rockstar Games that will lose out on a public bus service, but the main problem was the 6 was such a short route that could of been much more! Plus you could walk from Hanover Street to Holyrood and it wouldn’t take long at all anyway.

Personally this is how I would “Improve” the 6 :lol:

6 - Dumbiedykes “Viewcraig Street” to Charlotte Square

Via Plesance, Nicolson Square, Bristo Place, Market Street, Waverley Bridge, Princess Street, Fredrick Street and George Street
 

overthewater

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Alas the the residents will not let this go without making alot of noise? Maybe it could be operated by 18 seater mini buses and operate a circular?
 

OmniCity999

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Believe for a time the 6 was operated with financial support with the view of allowing people to commute to the parliament.

In talks recently was the city wide free bus service. If this goes ahead, I'm envisioning a circular city service that would go from St Andrew Square, Waverly Bridge, Market Street, Parliament, Dumbidykes, Pleasance, Nicholson Square, Bristo Square, Lauriston Place, Semple Street, Haymarket, West End, Princes Street, Frederick Street and St Andrew Square.

Potentially running through the Grassmarket in the festival. Doing so all year round would make the service seem like a tour.

Every 20 minutes in either direction (alterations to allow for one way streets etc) with a boost in frequency during the festival as it links up all major festival sites.

Possibly being chargeable in the evenings and during the festival, with residents using the service for free.

This is of course if the free bus service goes ahead...
 

takno

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Believe for a time the 6 was operated with financial support with the view of allowing people to commute to the parliament.

In talks recently was the city wide free bus service. If this goes ahead, I'm envisioning a circular city service that would go from St Andrew Square, Waverly Bridge, Market Street, Parliament, Dumbidykes, Pleasance, Nicholson Square, Bristo Square, Lauriston Place, Semple Street, Haymarket, West End, Princes Street, Frederick Street and St Andrew Square.

Potentially running through the Grassmarket in the festival. Doing so all year round would make the service seem like a tour.

Every 20 minutes in either direction (alterations to allow for one way streets etc) with a boost in frequency during the festival as it links up all major festival sites.

Possibly being chargeable in the evenings and during the festival, with residents using the service for free.

This is of course if the free bus service goes ahead...
The proposals for the free bus also see a bunch of proper buses taken out of the city centre, with people being expected to change to go where they need to get to. Given that, I'm expecting a frequency greater than every 5 minutes and unquestioningly free to everyone. Otherwise it won't work
 

OmniCity999

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The proposals for the free bus also see a bunch of proper buses taken out of the city centre, with people being expected to change to go where they need to get to. Given that, I'm expecting a frequency greater than every 5 minutes and unquestioningly free to everyone. Otherwise it won't work

Yes, a free bus would be, however there are plans for there to be more than one route. The route I suggested wouldnt have a high demand so 20 min frequency would be fine in the evenings, 10 during the day I'd say.

Come to think of it it probably would have a high demand as it targets six of the ten+ bus hubs.
 

etetetetet

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Are there any other major unprofitable routes? I knew the 6 was not long for this world but I'm curious what else fails to bring in money, excluding the council tenders like the 63 and the 61 because its just a shuttle basically
 

DunsBus

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Alas the the residents will not let this go without making alot of noise? Maybe it could be operated by 18 seater mini buses and operate a circular?
There's been a lot of noise kicked up every time the Dumbiedykes has lost its bus service. The demand simply isn't there.
 

VioletEclipse

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Are there any other major unprofitable routes? I knew the 6 was not long for this world but I'm curious what else fails to bring in money, excluding the council tenders like the 63 and the 61 because its just a shuttle basically
The 63 is pretty useful being the only bus to Queensferry that doesn't cost like twice as much
 
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Are there any other major unprofitable routes? I knew the 6 was not long for this world but I'm curious what else fails to bring in money, excluding the council tenders like the 63 and the 61 because its just a shuttle basically
The 63 is a profitable route, especially in peak times. usually around half full during the day. other than sundays
 
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The 63 is a profitable route, especially in peak times. usually around half full during the day. other than sundays
The 63 is subsidised by about £250k per year, one of the biggest subsidies in Edinburgh (although it works out quite low as subsidy per passenger). That's not to say it wouldn't be profitable without the council subsidy as I doubt many bus companies would turn their noses up at £250k per year and admit council funding isn't necessary for route survival.
Of course I don't know for sure but I suspect the number of profitable routes on Lothian's network is quite small compared to the loss-makers. My rough guess would be that only routes running every 10-12 minutes through the day turn a profit, while the others are net losers. With so many season ticket passengers it's probably difficult for the company themselves to know exactly what routes make a profit as such, and how many passengers would drift away if the company didn't maintain a comprehensive network.
 

etetetetet

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I more meant to say excluding the council tenders because if they're profitable or not isn't as relevant as a full on commercial bus
 

Auld reekie

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The 63 is subsidised by about £250k per year, one of the biggest subsidies in Edinburgh (although it works out quite low as subsidy per passenger). That's not to say it wouldn't be profitable without the council subsidy as I doubt many bus companies would turn their noses up at £250k per year and admit council funding isn't necessary for route survival.
Of course I don't know for sure but I suspect the number of profitable routes on Lothian's network is quite small compared to the loss-makers. My rough guess would be that only routes running every 10-12 minutes through the day turn a profit, while the others are net losers. With so many season ticket passengers it's probably difficult for the company themselves to know exactly what routes make a profit as such, and how many passengers would drift away if the company didn't maintain a comprehensive network.
I’m surprised they haven’t extended the No63 to Currie or beyond.
 
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Appears Lothian are back to storing withdrawals at Seafield works again, a good 15-20ish B7s parked up there with just 5 Lothian country B7RLEs in Marine car park
 

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