Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[ANWP Tom]

With the nick the tridents are in there is probably 5 years front line service left in a lot of them. Get what people mean about the Glasgow comparison. Had to use one the other week and they make some of the Lothian vintage fleet look modern

 

[Darklord8899]

With the nick the tridents are in there is probably 5 years front line service left in a lot of them. Get what people mean about the Glasgow comparison. Had to use one the other week and they make some of the Lothian vintage fleet look modern

Aye Lothian's Tridents have held up remarkably well. Thankfully (from the comments I've seen on here) have never been on a Glasgow Trident, but from a passenger point of view I do have a soft spot for our (LB) Tridents.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Just seen a staff notice go out about the taking of pictures at Termini, apparently enthusiasts are now forbidden from ANY interior shots at a terminus, I fully understand the risks of cab shots but general interior shots are just ridiculous, Screen reuqests are now banned but I was never one for that anyway, I'm gonna try just this tomorrow and see how many times I get away with it, I reckon it'll be almost every time, who else feels like complaining

Lothian's PATHETIC excuse is that it breaks data protection, I can't recall that there's anything data relevant within bus interiors apart from in the cab

 

[Lothian_Bus]

There are also 2 morning X12s which come in as X44s, and one as an X26.

In addition to that, there are also two X12s which then go dead to East Craigs to do 31s all day.

Also, the last (or second last) X26 of the evening starts off as a 25 from Riccarton running part route to Waverley. It actually causes a bit of confusion and most days there is at least one poor student who gets off at Regent Road confused as to why the 25 is going that route.

 

[oldman]

Agreed, I think contactless and ridacard options should be the next thing

They would need an online ordering system for country ridacards, but that isn't hard nowadays, and it would be useful for the city now they only have the one travelshop.

 

[Darklord8899]

Also, the last (or second last) X26 of the evening starts off as a 25 from Riccarton running part route to Waverley. It actually causes a bit of confusion and most days there is at least one poor student who gets off at Regent Road confused as to why the 25 is going that route.

Now that I didn't know, I always assumed that the Afternoon bound Waverley 25's returned to Riccarton as X25's

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Now that I didn't know, I always assumed that the Afternoon bound Waverley 25's returned to Riccarton as X25's

Most probably do (or go back as an X44W) but this one is the exception. It often comes branded as a 26 (I mean the zoo buses) so stands out from the others. I suspect it changes the display at Haymarket so by the time it gets to Princes Street you would never know it had started as a 25.

 

[Darklord8899]

Most probably do (or go back as an X44W) but this one is the exception. It often comes branded as a 26 (I mean the zoo buses) so stands out from the others. I suspect it changes the display at Haymarket so by the time it gets to Princes Street you would never know it had started as a 25.

Now you say that I remember I used to quite often see "red topped" 26 branded buses on the afternoon X25's i was aware the 25 was (at that time) split Longstone/Marine and just assumed that the branded buses were spares as it were for peak time, possibly actually planned as bus would run X25 to Riccarton, back to town as part route 25 continuing as X26 to Port Seaton

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Just checked my diagrams (which I have worked out myself), so hopefully, this helps:
Morning Peak - anything not mentioned is worked from off-peak diagrams or do not interwork
X12: Worked from X26s or X44s. The 06:54 and 07:23 from Shandwick Place both continue as 31s from East Craigs at 07:30 and 08:00 respectively.
X25: Most work from Princes Street to Riccarton as 25, and return as X25. The 07:50 from Hermiston does the 08:30 from Waverley to Riccarton then the 09:55 23 from Greenbank; I think.
X26: 07:10 from Port Seton continues as 08:18 25 from Shandwick Place, as do most others. They then continue as service 26 day boards from Clerwood.
X29: Part of off-peak service 29 diagrams with the exception of 0729 ex-Gorebridge.
X31: 07:14 from Rosewell then runs reserve to The Jewel for service 4 starting at 09:09. 07:24 does 08:49 X12 ex-Haymarket.
X33: 06:36 continues as a 300 from Port Hamilton at 07:41, 06:51 runs reserve to Ocean Terminal for the 08:30 to Hyvots. 07:01 continues as a 34 from Port Hamilton at 08:20. Others continue as service 25 to Riccarton.
X37/X47: Most are interworked with off-peak boards.
X44E: 07:18/07:28 continue as 08:15/08:25 X12. The 08:15 runs reserve Gogarburn to Barnton for the 09:01 41.
X44W: Terminate at Waterloo Place before doubling-back and starting a 25 at Princes St/Waverley.

Evening Peak - anything not mentioned is worked from off-peak diagrams or do not interwork
X12: Most continue as X31s to Rosewell. The 18:15 and 18:45 from Gogarburn are run off of the 16:30 31 from Bonnyrigg and 17:02 from Polton respectively.
25/X25: The 17:11 from Riccarton continues as the 17:42 X26 - assume this is what was mentioned above. The 17:40 from Waterloo Place is operated by a service 20 day board, which then continues as the 19:00 63 from Riccarton to Q/Ferry.
X31: Most arrive as X12s from RBS Gogarburn. The 18:10 is worked off of a 25 day board - arriving at Lochend/Restalrig at 17:36.
X33: The 16:45 from Semple Street runs as a 34 from Riccarton at 15:53. The 17:05 from Semple Street runs as a 34 at 16:08 from Riccarton. The 17:25 runs as a 35 at 16:38 from Riccarton. The 17:45 runs as a 34 from Riccarton at 16:52.
X37: Most journeys are worked off of service 37 or service 47 day boards. The 16:57 from Granton comes off of the 15:50 42 from Cameron Toll. The 18:13 from Granton comes off of a service 8 day board.
X44W: The 17:23 from Waterloo Place comes off of a 25 from Riccarton. Others don't interwork or arrive as short 44s.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Now you say that I remember I used to quite often see "red topped" 26 branded buses on the afternoon X25's i was aware the 25 was (at that time) split Longstone/Marine and just assumed that the branded buses were spares as it were for peak time, possibly actually planned as bus would run X25 to Riccarton, back to town as part route 25 continuing as X26 to Port Seaton

Yes well remembered. I had forgotten that. I think a similar thing happens in reverse in the morning.

Just checked my diagrams (which I have worked out myself), so hopefully, this helps:
Morning Peak - anything not mentioned is worked from off-peak diagrams or do not interwork
X12: Worked from X26s or X44s. The 06:54 and 07:23 from Shandwick Place both continue as 31s from East Craigs at 07:30 and 08:00 respectively.
X25: Most work from Princes Street to Riccarton as 25, and return as X25. The 07:50 from Hermiston does the 08:30 from Waverley to Riccarton then the 09:55 23 from Greenbank; I think.
X26: 07:10 from Port Seton continues as 08:18 25 from Shandwick Place, as do most others. They then continue as service 26 day boards from Clerwood.
X29: Part of off-peak service 29 diagrams with the exception of 0729 ex-Gorebridge.
X31: 07:14 from Rosewell then runs reserve to The Jewel for service 4 starting at 09:09. 07:24 does 08:49 X12 ex-Haymarket.
X33: 06:36 continues as a 300 from Port Hamilton at 07:41, 06:51 runs reserve to Ocean Terminal for the 08:30 to Hyvots. 07:01 continues as a 34 from Port Hamilton at 08:20. Others continue as service 25 to Riccarton.
X37/X47: Most are interworked with off-peak boards.
X44E: 07:18/07:28 continue as 08:15/08:25 X12. The 08:15 runs reserve Gogarburn to Barnton for the 09:01 41.
X44W: Terminate at Waterloo Place before doubling-back and starting a 25 at Princes St/Waverley.

Evening Peak - anything not mentioned is worked from off-peak diagrams or do not interwork
X12: Most continue as X31s to Rosewell. The 18:15 and 18:45 from Gogarburn are run off of the 16:30 31 from Bonnyrigg and 17:02 from Polton respectively.
25/X25: The 17:11 from Riccarton continues as the 17:42 X26 - assume this is what was mentioned above. The 17:40 from Waterloo Place is operated by a service 20 day board, which then continues as the 19:00 63 from Riccarton to Q/Ferry.
X31: Most arrive as X12s from RBS Gogarburn. The 18:10 is worked off of a 25 day board - arriving at Lochend/Restalrig at 17:36.
X33: The 16:45 from Semple Street runs as a 34 from Riccarton at 15:53. The 17:05 from Semple Street runs as a 34 at 16:08 from Riccarton. The 17:25 runs as a 35 at 16:38 from Riccarton. The 17:45 runs as a 34 from Riccarton at 16:52.
X37: Most journeys are worked off of service 37 or service 47 day boards. The 16:57 from Granton comes off of the 15:50 42 from Cameron Toll. The 18:13 from Granton comes off of a service 8 day board.
X44W: The 17:23 from Waterloo Place comes off of a 25 from Riccarton. Others don't interwork or arrive as short 44s.

Thank you very much.

 

[Darklord8899]

Just checked my diagrams (which I have worked out myself), so hopefully, this helps:
Morning Peak - anything not mentioned is worked from off-peak diagrams or do not interwork
X12: Worked from X26s or X44s. The 06:54 and 07:23 from Shandwick Place both continue as 31s from East Craigs at 07:30 and 08:00 respectively.
X25: Most work from Princes Street to Riccarton as 25, and return as X25. The 07:50 from Hermiston does the 08:30 from Waverley to Riccarton then the 09:55 23 from Greenbank; I think.
X26: 07:10 from Port Seton continues as 08:18 25 from Shandwick Place, as do most others. They then continue as service 26 day boards from Clerwood.
X29: Part of off-peak service 29 diagrams with the exception of 0729 ex-Gorebridge.
X31: 07:14 from Rosewell then runs reserve to The Jewel for service 4 starting at 09:09. 07:24 does 08:49 X12 ex-Haymarket.
X33: 06:36 continues as a 300 from Port Hamilton at 07:41, 06:51 runs reserve to Ocean Terminal for the 08:30 to Hyvots. 07:01 continues as a 34 from Port Hamilton at 08:20. Others continue as service 25 to Riccarton.
X37/X47: Most are interworked with off-peak boards.
X44E: 07:18/07:28 continue as 08:15/08:25 X12. The 08:15 runs reserve Gogarburn to Barnton for the 09:01 41.
X44W: Terminate at Waterloo Place before doubling-back and starting a 25 at Princes St/Waverley.

Evening Peak - anything not mentioned is worked from off-peak diagrams or do not interwork
X12: Most continue as X31s to Rosewell. The 18:15 and 18:45 from Gogarburn are run off of the 16:30 31 from Bonnyrigg and 17:02 from Polton respectively.
25/X25: The 17:11 from Riccarton continues as the 17:42 X26 - assume this is what was mentioned above. The 17:40 from Waterloo Place is operated by a service 20 day board, which then continues as the 19:00 63 from Riccarton to Q/Ferry.
X31: Most arrive as X12s from RBS Gogarburn. The 18:10 is worked off of a 25 day board - arriving at Lochend/Restalrig at 17:36.
X33: The 16:45 from Semple Street runs as a 34 from Riccarton at 15:53. The 17:05 from Semple Street runs as a 34 at 16:08 from Riccarton. The 17:25 runs as a 35 at 16:38 from Riccarton. The 17:45 runs as a 34 from Riccarton at 16:52.
X37: Most journeys are worked off of service 37 or service 47 day boards. The 16:57 from Granton comes off of the 15:50 42 from Cameron Toll. The 18:13 from Granton comes off of a service 8 day board.
X44W: The 17:23 from Waterloo Place comes off of a 25 from Riccarton. Others don't interwork or arrive as short 44s.

Wow, nice work Ross!!!
I've always been intrigued by how everything meshes together. I think particularly with the Expresses, they tend to stand out more as to how the bus gets to starting point then what it does after finishing it's run.
Even the day services which seem less obvious, have their odd little interworkings, I remember some years ago that a Marine bus went from Kings Road to New ERI as a 21 , then ran as an 18 to Gyle then worked the day on the 12's. Not something that is interesting to most but has interested me. I also remember, there was two 11's that ran Ocean Terminal to Elm Row then continued as 15's to Bush. As soneone else mentioned there was one 47 journey that ran to Nicholson Square then carried on to Fountainbridge and Riccarton as a 34. Love finding out about these odd things!

 

[Edirim]

The 47 now goes onto a 25 I'm pretty sure, as does the X33.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

The two 11s that continue as 15s still exist! They are also peak boards, I think.

The 109 bus does the 07:50 34 from Waverley (off the top of my head) then 20s all day. There is also a 20 board which does the 0750 47 from Straiton then the 0840 25 from Haymarket.

 

[90019]

Even the day services which seem less obvious, have their odd little interworkings, I remember some years ago that a Marine bus went from Kings Road to New ERI as a 21 , then ran as an 18 to Gyle then worked the day on the 12's.

That bus lasted until the 12s moved back to Marine after a couple of years being run out of Central, where that section was covered by a night shift driver.

There used to be a Central bus that did a single run from Ocean Terminal to Waverley Bridge on the 36, then went off service to Easter Road and spent the rest of the day on the 1. It was usually operated by 59, the only green roof Dart without the 36 route branding.

 

[Darklord8899]

That bus lasted until the 12s moved back to Marine after a couple of years being run out of Central, where that section was covered by a night shift driver.

There used to be a Central bus that did a single run from Ocean Terminal to Waverley Bridge on the 36, then went off service to Easter Road and spent the rest of the day on the 1. It was usually operated by 59, the only green roof Dart without the 36 route branding.

I remember seeing that green roofed Dart !!

 

[Darklord8899]

The two 11s that continue as 15s still exist! They are also peak boards, I think.

The 109 bus does the 07:50 34 from Waverley (off the top of my head) then 20s all day. There is also a 20 board which does the 0750 47 from Straiton then the 0840 25 from Haymarket.

I often wondered if that particular 47 was operated by a Longstone bus seeing as 47 is a Central service

 

[tbtc]

Just checked my diagrams (which I have worked out myself), so hopefully, this helps:
Morning Peak - anything not mentioned is worked from off-peak diagrams or do not interwork
X12: Worked from X26s or X44s. The 06:54 and 07:23 from Shandwick Place both continue as 31s from East Craigs at 07:30 and 08:00 respectively.
X25: Most work from Princes Street to Riccarton as 25, and return as X25. The 07:50 from Hermiston does the 08:30 from Waverley to Riccarton then the 09:55 23 from Greenbank; I think.
X26: 07:10 from Port Seton continues as 08:18 25 from Shandwick Place, as do most others. They then continue as service 26 day boards from Clerwood.
X29: Part of off-peak service 29 diagrams with the exception of 0729 ex-Gorebridge.
X31: 07:14 from Rosewell then runs reserve to The Jewel for service 4 starting at 09:09. 07:24 does 08:49 X12 ex-Haymarket.
X33: 06:36 continues as a 300 from Port Hamilton at 07:41, 06:51 runs reserve to Ocean Terminal for the 08:30 to Hyvots. 07:01 continues as a 34 from Port Hamilton at 08:20. Others continue as service 25 to Riccarton.
X37/X47: Most are interworked with off-peak boards.
X44E: 07:18/07:28 continue as 08:15/08:25 X12. The 08:15 runs reserve Gogarburn to Barnton for the 09:01 41.
X44W: Terminate at Waterloo Place before doubling-back and starting a 25 at Princes St/Waverley.

Evening Peak - anything not mentioned is worked from off-peak diagrams or do not interwork
X12: Most continue as X31s to Rosewell. The 18:15 and 18:45 from Gogarburn are run off of the 16:30 31 from Bonnyrigg and 17:02 from Polton respectively.
25/X25: The 17:11 from Riccarton continues as the 17:42 X26 - assume this is what was mentioned above. The 17:40 from Waterloo Place is operated by a service 20 day board, which then continues as the 19:00 63 from Riccarton to Q/Ferry.
X31: Most arrive as X12s from RBS Gogarburn. The 18:10 is worked off of a 25 day board - arriving at Lochend/Restalrig at 17:36.
X33: The 16:45 from Semple Street runs as a 34 from Riccarton at 15:53. The 17:05 from Semple Street runs as a 34 at 16:08 from Riccarton. The 17:25 runs as a 35 at 16:38 from Riccarton. The 17:45 runs as a 34 from Riccarton at 16:52.
X37: Most journeys are worked off of service 37 or service 47 day boards. The 16:57 from Granton comes off of the 15:50 42 from Cameron Toll. The 18:13 from Granton comes off of a service 8 day board.
X44W: The 17:23 from Waterloo Place comes off of a 25 from Riccarton. Others don't interwork or arrive as short 44s.

Love this - thanks for taking the time to share

Do the peak ("Bush") 15s interwork with anything? Or straight from Elm Row (i.e. Central) to Bush and then running light back to the depot?

Also the two 49s that terminate at the Infirmary in the morning? Do these work onto the 21? There's no equivalent evening peak extras from the Infirmary back into the city centre.

Fascinating interworking (especially as Lothian give the impression of being a very simple network - there's a lot of hard work ensuring additional capacity on the busiest sections. There's certainly some areas where they could complicate things - e.g. running most morning 31s to the Gyle rather than East Craigs, then running light to East Craigs before running back towards Bonnyrigg in regular service - rather than just a couple of journeys.

Would never have guessed that an X31 ended up on the 4, for example!

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I may upload my spreadsheet here at some point in the near future if it'd be use to some people.

Morning 49s - not sure off the top of my head but will check tomorrow.

Edit: the 0725 from Duke Street does the 0816 14 from Greendykes. I don't have a home for the 0740 from Wakefield Avenue yet.

 

[Tom1791]

Another interesting peak time working is the 7:36 service 45 from Kings Road which runs to Gray's loan (usually screened for tollcross or more recently Churchill) before turning into a 38 to the royal, starting at myreside at around 8:20. From there it runs out of service and starts the 69.
It used to be run by a solo which was an interesting sight on the 45 and 38.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Just seen a staff notice go out about the taking of pictures at Termini, apparently enthusiasts are now forbidden from ANY interior shots at a terminus, I fully understand the risks of cab shots but general interior shots are just ridiculous, Screen reuqests are now banned but I was never one for that anyway, I'm gonna try just this tomorrow and see how many times I get away with it, I reckon it'll be almost every time, who else feels like complaining

Lothian's PATHETIC excuse is that it breaks data protection, I can't recall that there's anything data relevant within bus interiors apart from in the cab

Sorry but this is utterly pathetic. Data protection?! On an EMPTY bus, what data is needed to be protected? So, if we use lothian logic, all passangers should be blindfolded before they board, as after all, data protection, as no difference between that empty bus at a terminus to starting the route... Even cab view.. safety yes, but data protection? Sounds like a jobsworth has been given a copy of GDPR for his birthday.

 

[mark-h]

usually screened for tollcross or more recently Churchill

It is Church Hill (sometimes written Churchhill)- hill with churches, no connection with Winston. Did they get the screens correct? [/pedant]

 

[mark-h]

apparently enthusiasts are now forbidden from ANY interior shots at a terminus

I assume they have given guidance as to how to identify enthusiasts so that drivers can refuse to let them on at the terminus and remove them from the bus at the penultimate stop.

 

[Darklord8899]

I may upload my spreadsheet here at some point in the near future if it'd be use to some people.

Morning 49s - not sure off the top of my head but will check tomorrow.

Edit: the 0725 from Duke Street does the 0816 14 from Greendykes. I don't have a home for the 0740 from Wakefield Avenue yet.

If you don't mind sharing it Ross, I'd certainly love to see it!

 

[herb21]

Sorry but this is utterly pathetic. Data protection?! On an EMPTY bus, what data is needed to be protected? So, if we use lothian logic, all passangers should be blindfolded before they board, as after all, data protection, as no difference between that empty bus at a terminus to starting the route... Even cab view.. safety yes, but data protection? Sounds like a jobsworth has been given a copy of GDPR for his birthday.

I am trying very hard to figure how GDPR could be impacted, if the driver was in the shot, I could understand, but anything else just doesn't seem to have a data subject to protect.

 

[Mal]

On the trams it was always 'CHURCHHILL' and I have a Lothian destination dated July 2003 which shows the same. One thing about Lothian, they always prided themselves on correct displays. IIRC they sent blinds back for correction because they had 'ST ANDREW'S SQ'? I'm sure someone will tell me if I'm wrong!

 

[Darklord8899]

Churchhill is still marked on the current 5 timetable

IIRC there was a service (can't remember the number ) that had short workings with 'CHURCHHILL' Tramboards as it wasn't on the blinds.

 

[smtglasgow]

Just checked my diagrams (which I have worked out myself), so hopefully, this helps:
Morning Peak - anything not mentioned is worked from off-peak diagrams or do not interwork

Thanks for posting. I started working in Edinburgh a few months ago and the thing that really stands out about Lothian is how efficient they are with their fleet - squeezing as much as they can out of each bus. Must help that they have strong ‘against the flow’ demand towards the Gyle, Gogarburn, Herriot Watt and Bush, so they can fill a bus in both directions.

First Glasgow have some strange workings that you’d never guess from reading the timetable, but with them it all seems to be about getting the most out of drivers, not about providing additional capacity.

 

[Darklord8899]

I have another interesting cross depot interworking....
There are 2 morning 29 journeys from Silverknowes (0659 and 0724) which run to Comely Bank then contiune as 42's to King's Road.
Are these run by buses from Central or Marine and do they arrive at Silverknowes on service from anywhere or are they dead runs?

Maybe one for @ross4122

 

[90019]

Central doesn't have any 42s, so they must be Marine buses.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I have another interesting cross depot interworking....
There are 2 morning 29 journeys from Silverknowes (0659 and 0724) which run to Comely Bank then contiune as 42's to King's Road.
Are these run by buses from Central or Marine and do they arrive at Silverknowes on service from anywhere or are they dead runs?

Maybe one for @ross4122

They run dead from Marine to Silverknowes and so I'm pretty sure they are run by Marine singles afaik, sure they stay on the 42 for the rest of the day