Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[SpeedbirdA350]

More new toys and second hand purchases this year and next.

Each subsidiary is getting something new and B7's (in their current form) will be gone from the main fleet by the end of January 2020 and gone entirely by April 2020.

I assume both Longstone and Marine will get some B8Ls as there are some routes such as the 44 which could use them.

Depends. Ex Londoners will enter service and once the new airlines arrive and the old ones are refurbished that'll remove a chunk if B7's.

Is there an EOS for the new Airlink buses?

 

[OmniCity999]

I assume both Longstone and Marine will get some B8Ls as there are some routes such as the 44 which could use them.

Is there an EOS for the new Airlink buses?

B8Ls are likely to stay at Central as its City routes.

I dont know what EOS means.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Along with the Airport Enviro 400s as there is currently no E400MMC Citys in low height form until Stagecoach take delivery of theirs.

The Airport examples are not E400MMC's, those are E400City's. Hence why i didn't mention them.

 

[CM]

The Airport examples are not E400MMC's, those are E400City's. Hence why i didn't mention them.

Still and Enviro 400 though....still counts. Only the Front and back end are different along with the glazed staircase, the rest of the bus is still an E400MMC.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

B8Ls are likely to stay at Central as its City routes.

I dont know what EOS means.

EOS Entry of Service.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Still and Enviro 400 though....still counts. Only the Front and back end are different along with the glazed staircase, the rest of the bus is still an E400MMC.

Still a Enviro 400 yes, but it's not a Enviro400MMC. Even if the bulk of the bus is the same, it's marketed and sold as the Enviro400City.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Depends. Ex Londoners will enter service and once the new airlines arrive and the old ones are refurbished that'll remove a chunk if B7's.

Thought the ex go ahead ones would start on the 14th?

 

[sam120]

looking at the new timetables i think the 23 may be moving back over to central, as some services are starting from canonmills again.

 

[yorkie]

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[FlybeDash8Q400]

looking at the new timetables i think the 23 may be moving back over to central, as some services are starting from canonmills again.

Those runs exist atmo so I think it'll stay at Longstone

 

[ScotRail158725]

More new toys and second hand purchases this year and next.

Each subsidiary is getting something new and B7's (in their current form) will be gone from the main fleet by the end of January 2020 and gone entirely by April 2020.

have you any idea as to what those second hand purchases are?

 

[Auld reekie]

B8Ls are likely to stay at Central as its City routes.

I dont know what EOS means.

What’s classed as “City routes”?

 

[Lothian_Bus]

looking at the new timetables i think the 23 may be moving back over to central, as some services are starting from canonmills again.

I thought the same but then some journeys also appear to start from Canonmills on the current timetable so I am not sure.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

B8Ls are likely to stay at Central as its City routes.

I dont know what EOS means.

However these buses run on the 31 so they can go outside the city boundary.

The 22 is an example City route not based at Central which these buses would not look out of place on.

 

[OmniCity999]

However these buses run on the 31 so they can go outside the city boundary.

The 22 is an example City route not based at Central which these buses would not look out of place on.

Wasnt saying they'd stay within the city. City routes are generally defined as those that stay entirely within the Edinburgh Council area, not venturing into East, West or Mid lothians. Or those that have a terminating point within 5 miles of the city centre.

There are some city services at other depots but these wouldnt require that sort of capacity.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Wasnt saying they'd stay within the city. City routes are generally defined as those that stay entirely within the Edinburgh Council area, not venturing into East, West or Mid lothians. Or those that have a terminating point within 5 miles of the city centre.

There are some city services at other depots but these wouldnt require that sort of capacity.

Thanks for clarifying.

Is there a reason why the XLB's have not ventured onto the 37 or 44? Are these routes too awkward?

 

[OmniCity999]

Thanks for clarifying.

Is there a reason why the XLB's have not ventured onto the 37 or 44? Are these routes too awkward?

37 I believe is because of the route between pennywell road and Silverknowes terminus, these buses can get through, it's just sometimes with parked cars it can be tricky. Similar situation in Straiton retail park its particularly tight there, especially when its busy, doable but if it can be avoided then it is, that's why you dont regularly see XLBs on the 37.

44 although being a cross city route, the corridors it serves, particularly in the east are pretty well covered in terms of buses per hour and capacity. Westerly it isnt required. It's also tight down in the Wimpies (between Wallyford P&C and Pinkie Road). So they really arent required on the 44, hence why they havent been seen on there. Again, all doable but not required. Capacity is deemed suitable. These vehicles can therefore be used elsewhere, where the capacity and "quicker boarding/alighting" can be fully utilised.

Their designed to move high quantities of people quickly and efficiently and this can be utilised to it's full potential on City routes as opposed to those that venture out as the type of custom is different.

In the city you have lots of people going to lots of places so the dual doors and amount of seats comes in handy. Out of the city you tend to have people going to particular towns or suburbs that dont require alot of capacity. OOT (out of town) journeys tend to be to the end of the line or near enough so. Also, it tends to be a case of less tourists too.

 

[ALADOU47]

Those runs exist atmo so I think it'll stay at Longstone

No mate 23 still operating out of Longstone

 

[computerSaysNo]

37 I believe is because of the route between pennywell road and Silverknowes terminus, these buses can get through, it's just sometimes with parked cars it can be tricky. Similar situation in Straiton retail park its particularly tight there, especially when its busy, doable but if it can be avoided then it is, that's why you dont regularly see XLBs on the 37.

44 although being a cross city route, the corridors it serves, particularly in the east are pretty well covered in terms of buses per hour and capacity. Westerly it isnt required. It's also tight down in the Wimpies (between Wallyford P&C and Pinkie Road). So they really arent required on the 44, hence why they havent been seen on there. Again, all doable but not required. Capacity is deemed suitable. These vehicles can therefore be used elsewhere, where the capacity and "quicker boarding/alighting" can be fully utilised.

Their designed to move high quantities of people quickly and efficiently and this can be utilised to it's full potential on City routes as opposed to those that venture out as the type of custom is different.

In the city you have lots of people going to lots of places so the dual doors and amount of seats comes in handy. Out of the city you tend to have people going to particular towns or suburbs that dont require alot of capacity. OOT (out of town) journeys tend to be to the end of the line or near enough so. Also, it tends to be a case of less tourists too.

I know it's an out of city route but what about the 26? Every time I go on it the buses seem to be very busy, at least until about Mussleburgh. Could a couple of the XLB's run part route on the 26 to help increase the capacity?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Saw a post on Twitter of ECB confirming the prices of the Zone C & D Ridacard for anyone who didn’t know!
Zone C - £75 (4 Weeks)
Zone D - £84 (4 Weeks)

Now the ordinary Ridacard is £57 for 4 weeks. It’s only £18 more for zone C and £27 more for zone D.

This has me wondering if Lothian/East Coast we’re to introduce ridacards for Zone E-F and for the whole network how much would they cost. Taking into account the M-Ticket prices for 28 days.

County (Zone B-F) £98
Countyplus (Zone A-F/Lothian/Trams) - £154

My question is if they rolled out more Ridacards for the remaining East Coast fare Zones would they be cheaper than the M-Ticket bundles? They certainly would be of more value with free travel to the airport and the CityWEST zone. I reckon with the reasonable price they could be getting more revenue then they already are, I honestly don’t see why they haven’t done it already since it’s been almost 3 years since they took over the First network in the East, fair enough they introduced contactless to their fleet but for someone who makes good use of the Ridacard on a daily basis and rely on lothians network alot. It just seems like a missed opportunity.

 

[OmniCity999]

I know it's an out of city route but what about the 26? Every time I go on it the buses seem to be very busy, at least until about Mussleburgh. Could a couple of the XLB's run part route on the 26 to help increase the capacity?

Theres enough capacity on the Maybury Corridor, 12, 26, 31, 100. Enough capacity on the Princes Street to Portobello corridor 19, 26, 45, 124 (some obviously not direct routes). Also enough on the Musselburgh to Prestonpans (26, 124) or Tranent routes (26, 113)

I respect that sometimes people have to stand, I'm a regular user of the 26 myself, however that's public transport and it's not throughout the day.

Even Part Route 26 from Princes Street to Prestonpans wouldnt negate their use. I cant aee these operating on the Tranent 26s as even standard length vehicles struggle on that one road I can never remember the name of.

Never say never obviously, but for the time being these are mainly for City use.

I really think there should more X26s In the morning and evening peak and these should be faster, maybe even missing out Musselburgh and Portobello and opting for the A1 and a reroute in Preatonpans/Cockenzie with an express service added for Musselburgh in the peaks, as well as the X24's. Although there should also be one or two more X24's in my view.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

No mate 23 still operating out of Longstone

What about the 33?

I only ask as someone was complaining on twitter about the late evening journeys no longer going back to Longstone from Baberton.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Saw a post on Twitter of ECB confirming the prices of the Zone C & D Ridacard for anyone who didn’t know!
Zone C - £75 (4 Weeks)
Zone D - £84 (4 Weeks)

Now the ordinary Ridacard is £57 for 4 weeks. It’s only £18 more for zone C and £27 more for zone D.

This has me wondering if Lothian/East Coast we’re to introduce ridacards for Zone E-F and for the whole network how much would they cost. Taking into account the M-Ticket prices for 28 days.

County (Zone B-F) £98
Countyplus (Zone A-F/Lothian/Trams) - £154

My question is if they rolled out more Ridacards for the remaining East Coast fare Zones would they be cheaper than the M-Ticket bundles? They certainly would be of more value with free travel to the airport and the CityWEST zone. I reckon with the reasonable price they could be getting more revenue then they already are, I honestly don’t see why they haven’t done it already since it’s been almost 3 years since they took over the First network in the East, fair enough they introduced contactless to their fleet but for someone who makes good use of the Ridacard on a daily basis and rely on lothians network alot. It just seems like a missed opportunity.

Many do use the ridacard and I have often said previously on here that they should include an add on option, of including LCB and ECB on to the pass, however they would also need to have a LCB/ECB only option but given Lothian have the technology of the system already there, and all buses have the wayfarer 6 machines, it's easy to do, but I still wonder why they have not. Ridacard+ could be good for busineses, by locking people in to the eco-system but they have failed to captalise on that yet. Almost like they are scared to make the move but I don't understand why...

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Many do use the ridacard and I have often said previously on here that they should include an add on option, of including LCB and ECB on to the pass, however they would also need to have a LCB/ECB only option but given Lothian have the technology of the system already there, and all buses have the wayfarer 6 machines, it's easy to do, but I still wonder why they have not. Ridacard+ could be good for busineses, by locking people in to the eco-system but they have failed to captalise on that yet. Almost like they are scared to make the move but I don't understand why...

It’s a missed opportunity, especially when you put your mind to it it would go down very well for Lothian in both the east/west. LCB not having it is surprising giving how much resources they are putting into West Lothian, you’d think that would be priority number one. but since Lothian Buses have taken over East Lothian completely it’s still shocking that the residents don’t have that option, at least not for beyond Haddington/Dirleton.. I honestly can’t think of an excuse besides lack of interest at this point

I mean they could just reintroduce the Zone C/D Ridacard at the same price with the ECB brand on it. But with some additional plus on options to attract customers

Even if they did a Zone E+F Card instead of individual ones.

Have it like
ECB Zone C Ridacard - £75 (£18 weekly)
ECB Zone D Ridacard - £84 (£21 weekly)
ECB Zone E+F Ridacard -£90 (£22.50 weekly)

Include the same benefits of the city Ridacard with free travel on the nighthawk in respective zones! Would be nice to have one within the County zones only but hard to think of a price for that one.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

It’s a missed opportunity, especially when you put your mind to it it would go down very well for Lothian in both the east/west. LCB not having it is surprising giving how much resources they are putting into West Lothian, you’d think that would be priority number one. but since Lothian Buses have taken over East Lothian completely it’s still shocking that the residents don’t have that option, at least not for beyond Haddington/Dirleton.. I honestly can’t think of an excuse besides lack of interest at this point

I mean they could just reintroduce the Zone C/D Ridacard at the same price with the ECB brand on it. But with some additional plus on options to attract customers

Even if they did a Zone E+F Card instead of individual ones.

Have it like
ECB Zone C Ridacard - £75 (£18 weekly)
ECB Zone D Ridacard - £84 (£21 weekly)
ECB Zone E+F Ridacard -£90 (£22.50 weekly)

Include the same benefits of the city Ridacard with free travel on the nighthawk in respective zones! Would be nice to have one within the County zones only but hard to think of a price for that one.

And while I’m here I made up one for LCB just for the heck of it

LothianWest Ridacard - £70 (£17.50 weekly)
CountryWest Ridacard - £55 (£13.75 weekly)

*LothianWest Ridacard is valid on all Lothian services, Skylink, Airlink, Edinburgh Trams, East Coast Buses (Zone A + B) “Discount fares on Zones C-F” and all Zones Lothian Country.

*CountryWest Ridacard is only valid on Lothian Country CountryWest Zones A-C.

Had a look at the m-ticket prices from Firsts weekly/monthly tickets for inspiration, just to imagine if Lothian decided to come up with the brilliant plan to bring out Ridacard for better value on their services and reasonable fares to draw in more buyers, but this is just merely opinion!

 

[Weemidi135]

I hope 708/717 at LCB is a temporary measure considering i dont want to buy a newtork day ticket just to go on 708 now. The river forth is a default location for vehicles at Kings, usually the forth or in Abercorn

You don’t need a network day ticket to travel to West Lothian just buy a lothianwest day ticket priced at £7.50

 

[Edirim]

My understanding is that you can still buy these zone c and zone d ridacards.

 

[scosutsut]

There was talk of an X8 service that would go follow the X7 stopping pattern to Asda Jewel, then non stop to Abbey toll, which is the first stop after Haddington, just for Dunbar commuters. With the peak X7 double continuing to run and a 106 running Haddington to Dunbar for any stragglers. But nothing has come of it as of yet.

As someone who doesn't use the X7 service only due to the peak time overcrowding, this is the solution imo!

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

It’s a missed opportunity, especially when you put your mind to it it would go down very well for Lothian in both the east/west. LCB not having it is surprising giving how much resources they are putting into West Lothian, you’d think that would be priority number one. but since Lothian Buses have taken over East Lothian completely it’s still shocking that the residents don’t have that option, at least not for beyond Haddington/Dirleton.. I honestly can’t think of an excuse besides lack of interest at this point

I mean they could just reintroduce the Zone C/D Ridacard at the same price with the ECB brand on it. But with some additional plus on options to attract customers

Even if they did a Zone E+F Card instead of individual ones.

Have it like
ECB Zone C Ridacard - £75 (£18 weekly)
ECB Zone D Ridacard - £84 (£21 weekly)
ECB Zone E+F Ridacard -£90 (£22.50 weekly)

Include the same benefits of the city Ridacard with free travel on the nighthawk in respective zones! Would be nice to have one within the County zones only but hard to think of a price for that one.

I think we need to be asking the question of why they have not done this yet more than if they will because at those prices you put, are good value. It would lock folk in to the eco-system and force people to use LCB over First too as they'd have invested in LCB by putting money in to the ridacard. Eco-system works in Edinburgh... Lack of interest just does not seem plausable right now though, so there has to be another reason. They can't even claim it would not be popular as they have not even tried and given they have the system in place already, the cost to impliment would be negligable.

 

[OmniCity999]

I think we need to be asking the question of why they have not done this yet more than if they will because at those prices you put, are good value. It would lock folk in to the eco-system and force people to use LCB over First too as they'd have invested in LCB by putting money in to the ridacard. Eco-system works in Edinburgh... Lack of interest just does not seem plausable right now though, so there has to be another reason. They can't even claim it would not be popular as they have not even tried and given they have the system in place already, the cost to impliment would be negligable.

Rumour has it that an Oyster style system is in the works. Which would see the Ridacard updated.

PAYG - finding you the cheapest option over the course of the month. For example if you keep buying singles over the course of a month, it will find you the cheapest option. Options being a PAYG Ridacard or Credit/Debit card with contactless. Or you could still buy a Ridacard.

Canteen talk of course.