Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[ScotRail158725]

It seems to have made its way to Glasgow (possibly Ferrymill).

44 - BT64 LHZ

Volvo 7900H

bustimes.org

(Link above is to the route map that 44 has taken to Glasgow).

thats not ferrymill thats Volvo at Cardonald

 

[Graham Alexand]

thats not ferrymill thats Volvo at Cardonald

I understand. This was already established.

In all fairness, when I posted that the bus had only passed Harthill on the M8.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I really wish they would publish their timetables in such a way that shows the type of connections you mention. For example in the current timetable (?) there are three morning X26s which turn into 25s to Heriot-Watt at Haymarket, but this is only shown as a footnote in the pdf timetable and isn't shown at all on the online X26 timetable.
I'm hoping with the new 140/141 the published timetable will show both services in one place, otherwise you're going to get people thinking that their 140 service has been cut to hourly and not realizing that in most cases they can take the 141 as well.
I'm surprised they don't already do this with the 106/X6/X7 to be honest; the 106/X7 combined to show the complete service to and from East Linton and Dunbar, and the X6/X7 combined to show the service from Haddington to Edinburgh (e.g. sometimes an X7 leaving later will overtake an X6 and arrive before it)

Then again, do many people even look at the pdf/online timetables any more, or does everyone just using journey planners like Google Maps?
(rhetorical question, mostly)

I remember the old 106 timetables which showed the onward connections to Dunbar from Haddington with the X7, I’m not sure why they did away with that To be honest It seemed so handy for Musseburgh residents!

 

[LothianBusesPh]

@computerSaysNo I think they should definitely combine the 140/141 when the paper timetables come back, I have been told by someone in Lothian that they should come back soon but might not. If they do bring back the timetables, they should combine the 106/X6 as they do the same routes to Musselburgh (If the X6 and 106 are doing part routes).

It will be harder to fit an X7 in there but it should go a little like this (Very rushed mockup.)



Don't you think it looks a bit cluttered with -'s?
I don't think Lothian will go that far because take in the factor, that if you use the in-depth one or a better minimised one it will just look cluttered.

I can maybe see Lothian doing it with the X6/106 but that's a stretch.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

@computerSaysNo I think they should definitely combine the 140/141 when the paper timetables come back, I have been told by someone in Lothian that they should come back soon but might not. If they do bring back the timetables, they should combine the 106/X6 as they do the same routes to Musselburgh (If the X6 and 106 are doing part routes).

It will be harder to fit an X7 in there but it should go a little like this (Very rushed mockup.)

View attachment 119171

Don't you think it looks a bit cluttered with -'s?
I don't think Lothian will go that far because take in the factor, that if you use the in-depth one or a better minimised one it will just look cluttered.

I can maybe see Lothian doing it with the X6/106 but that's a stretch.

Very nicely done, it would make it a lot easier, although dosnt the X6 run via Wallyford and Eskbank en route to Musselburgh?

While I don’t see the X6 heading to Dunbar, maybe we could see peak X7’s running to Haddington again? and I noticed the wait time at night at Haddington for the last two 106’s from the Fort is over half an hour to connect with an X7, wondering if it’s worth trialing an evening extension to Dunbar to save punters waiting for ages?

 

[computerSaysNo]

@computerSaysNo I think they should definitely combine the 140/141 when the paper timetables come back, I have been told by someone in Lothian that they should come back soon but might not. If they do bring back the timetables, they should combine the 106/X6 as they do the same routes to Musselburgh (If the X6 and 106 are doing part routes).

It will be harder to fit an X7 in there but it should go a little like this (Very rushed mockup.)

View attachment 119171

Don't you think it looks a bit cluttered with -'s?
I don't think Lothian will go that far because take in the factor, that if you use the in-depth one or a better minimised one it will just look cluttered.

I can maybe see Lothian doing it with the X6/106 but that's a stretch.

I was going to wait until Lothian made their official announcement before I published these but they're all compiled using 100% publicly-available data from bustimes.org so it should be fine I guess.
I put together combined timetables for services 106/X6/X7, and services 140/141, you can see them at the links below or go to github.com/40414148/Lothian_Published.

• For 106/X6/X7 go here (https://github.com/40414148/Lothian_Published/raw/main/Weekday_106%20X6%20X7.pdf)
• For 140/141 go here (https://github.com/40414148/Lothian_Published/raw/main/Weekday_140%20141.pdf)

It takes quite a while to put the above timetables together, I've looked at ways of automating it through Excel but I couldn't fine anything, so it looks like I'll have to write a program just to do that specially.

I've put screenshots of the timetables below but be sure to click on the links to view the full things (opens as a PDF).

Screenshot 106/X6/X7:

Screenshot 140/141:


I also can't work out how to get the tables to "wrap" or "snake" to make better use of the page size so if anyone knows how then please do share!!

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I was going to wait until Lothian made their official announcement before I published these but they're all compiled using 100% publicly-available data from bustimes.org so it should be fine I guess.
I put together combined timetables for services 106/X6/X7, and services 140/141, you can see them at the links below or go to github.com/40414148/Lothian_Published.

• For 106/X6/X7 go here (https://github.com/40414148/Lothian_Published/raw/main/Weekday_106%20X6%20X7.pdf)
• For 140/141 go here (https://github.com/40414148/Lothian_Published/raw/main/Weekday_140%20141.pdf)

It takes quite a while to put the above timetables together, I've looked at ways of automating it through Excel but I couldn't fine anything, so it looks like I'll have to write a program just to do that specially.

I've put screenshots of the timetables below but be sure to click on the links to view the full things (opens as a PDF).

Screenshot 106/X6/X7:
View attachment 119178
Screenshot 140/141:
View attachment 119179

I also can't work out how to get the tables to "wrap" or "snake" to make better use of the page size so if anyone knows how then please do share!!

Sorry mate, don't know how to "wrap" or "snake."

Very nicely done though, are those the correct times etc?

 

[computerSaysNo]

Very nicely done though, are those the correct times etc?

Thanks, yes they should be the correct times, I made sure bustimes.org was set to the 13th when I copied the times which is after the service change, so they should be right unless changes haven't been approved yet.

 

[overthewater]

Just to say Lothian have actually printed timetable booklets for "East Coast buses" and " Lothian Country. both dated 5th June 2022. I doubt the city timetables will get reprinted until either Leith walk or North bridge fully opens.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Thanks, yes they should be the correct times, I made sure bustimes.org was set to the 13th when I copied the times which is after the service change, so they should be right unless changes haven't been approved yet.

I have no idea how to do that on the timetables, at least on my phone anyway

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Just to say Lothian have actually printed timetable booklets for "East Coast buses" and " Lothian Country. both dated 5th June 2022. I doubt the city timetables will get reprinted until either Leith walk or North bridge fully opens.

I would assume this is because there are no plans to change these (except for the 140) for some time.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I have no idea how to do that on the timetables, at least on my phone anyway

It's simple once you know how!

To get started you just find a service (any service, any company) on bustimes that lets you change the date of the timetable. Change the date to anything at all in the future; this adds the string "?date=2022-09-01" (or whatever date you selected) to the URL. To view future timetables for other services just copy and paste that string onto the end of the URL of any other service's page (and change the date to suit).

 

[ScotRail158725]

It's simple once you know how!

To get started you just find a service (any service, any company) on bustimes that lets you change the date of the timetable. Change the date to anything at all in the future; this adds the string "?date=2022-09-01" (or whatever date you selected) to the URL. To view future timetables for other services just copy and paste that string onto the end of the URL of any other service's page (and change the date to suit).

is there anyway to do this for past timetables?

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Thanks for this, completely forgot about the East coast singles in my post.

The x7 at rush hour could do with a frequency boost, usually packed before it even leaves the city centre.

 

[computerSaysNo]

is there anyway to do this for past timetables?

Not that I'm aware of. Simply changing the date might work but I'm assuming you're asking here because you've tried it and it didn't work, in which case I'm not sure if/how you can do it, sorry.

 

[scosutsut]

The x7 at rush hour could do with a frequency boost, usually packed before it even leaves the city centre.

It's needed it for a while now morning and evening. I suspect the X6 rebrand of the 104 was trying to help but it's just not an attractive option for Haddington punters.

It might be only 10 minutes slower on paper but it feels much much longer.

More people seem to have switched on the 253 in the morning rush but it's always less than half full on the final evening peak return (much to my delight)

 

[stevenedin]

It's needed it for a while now morning and evening. I suspect the X6 rebrand of the 104 was trying to help but it's just not an attractive option for Haddington punters.

It might be only 10 minutes slower on paper but it feels much much longer.

More people seem to have switched on the 253 in the morning rush but it's always less than half full on the final evening peak return (much to my delight)

The good thing about the X6 is that you get a bigger discount going to/from Edinburgh with a Ridacard as the fare is covered up to Tranent on the X6 so you only pay £2.80 from there to Haddington whereas the X7 is only covered up to The Jewel so you have to pay £3.80 from there to Haddington.

On another note it isn’t just First that are having issues with buses not showing up. I was waiting with someone going home from Edinburgh for the last X27 tonight (22:50) and nothing showed up.

Unfortunately the last First bus X25 was also cancelled which they could’ve got so we were waiting for nearly an hour for the X28 so that they could get on that and walk home the rest of their journey.

 

[Mickcloud9]

Unfortunately there were severe delays on LCB services coming from Edinburgh and the Queensferry Fair day. A lot of drivers probably over their driving hours and no cover to take over. It was an exceptionally busy day for LCB. We can only hope that the powers that be see the increase in demand for more frequent, settled services and act appropriately. One stumbling block will no doubt be driver numbers. Anyone know anyone who wants to drive a bus?

 

[mb88]

On another note it isn’t just First that are having issues with buses not showing up. I was waiting with someone going home from Edinburgh for the last X27 tonight (22:50) and nothing showed up.

Unfortunately the last First bus X25 was also cancelled which they could’ve got so we were waiting for nearly an hour for the X28 so that they could get on that and walk home the rest of their journey.

Not good at all. On a similar note, the past 2 Thursdays in a row the X18 due to depart Whitburn at 21:50 has failed to operate. This is the last one that runs right through to Edinburgh, leaving folk in Armadale and Bathgate stranded. It is also the one used by a lot of workers from the Tesco distribution centre who finish at 22:00. I was under the impression that under no circumstances can the last bus be cancelled?

 

[stevenedin]

Not good at all. On a similar note, the past 2 Thursdays in a row the X18 due to depart Whitburn at 21:50 has failed to operate. This is the last one that runs right through to Edinburgh, leaving folk in Armadale and Bathgate stranded. It is also the one used by a lot of workers from the Tesco distribution centre who finish at 22:00. I was under the impression that under no circumstances can the last bus be cancelled?

I thought the same too and there was clearly some people still standing around with their Lothian country tickets in their hand after that X28 left as well at 23:20. I don’t know where they lived I was thinking possibly Calderwood or somewhere that the X28 goes nowhere near as they let the X18 go past as well so must not be going to Whitburn.

Not to be negative but it’s ridiculous to have cancellations especially during a festival when there’s loads of extra people waiting than usual. I get that things are difficult these days but all you ever hear is staff shortages all over the world now it’s so frustrating.

 

[mb88]

I get that everywhere is short staffed however there are things you can do to prevent a last bus being cancelled. Pull someone off another run to cover it if their original run is not a last bus. Get one of the supervisors out to cover it. Phone round the other garages to see if they have anyone that can cover it. Get a manager to cover it. You can’t just leave people stranded. Especially since, unlike First, Lothian don’t publish a list of cancelled services to allow people to plan ahead. Lothian’s response to that is that ‘the app is updated’ which is fine on a busy, frequent city service but not on low-frequency services and especially not if it’s the last bus that’s cancelled. People need to see it written somewhere that a particular service will not run, not just turn up at the stop and only find out it’s not coming when they check the live tracker.

 

[elmogrouchland]

... but all you ever hear is staff shortages all over the world now...

Is it really all over the world?

 

[Siemens Trains]

there was clearly some people still standing around with their Lothian country tickets in their hand after that X28 left as well at 23:20. I don’t know where they lived I was thinking possibly Calderwood or somewhere that the X28 goes nowhere near as they let the X18 go past as well

Just a thought, but if the location was westbound on Waterloo Place or Princes Street at the top of Waverley Steps could these people have turned up early for the Lothian Country 43 due around 23:30? I believe it ran successfully last night, if 10-15 minutes late.

I was waiting with someone going home from Edinburgh for the last X27 tonight (22:50) and nothing showed up.

Unfortunately the last First bus X25 was also cancelled which they could’ve got so we were waiting for nearly an hour for the X28 so that they could get on that

If the target X27 was at 22:50 and the X28 at 23:20, isn't that only a half hour wait? Or did you arrive early for the no-show X27 then found the X28 was significantly late?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The good thing about the X6 is that you get a bigger discount going to/from Edinburgh with a Ridacard as the fare is covered up to Tranent on the X6 so you only pay £2.80 from there to Haddington whereas the X7 is only covered up to The Jewel so you have to pay £3.80 from there to Haddington.

It should still be £2.80 for ridacard users from Edinburgh to Haddington on the X7. You only need to pay for the zones the card isn’t valid in (C and D), even if there’s no stops in Zone B.

I suspect problem is the system can’t have a Zone B stop (as there isn’t one) and therefore it’s too daft to notice it. What should happen is you put the ridacard on at a Zone A stop, the driver should then validate it for Zone D and then you pay the excess of £2.80 for Zones C and D, certainly this is what I used to do. Usually I just buy a County DayTicket though as that’s the cheapest thing to buy if you’re going both ways.

Whenever I used to head out West with LC (this was back in 2018) sometimes the driver would wait until I got into the CountryWEST zones before I could pay the excess. Again this was because the system couldn’t sell me the CountryWEST outside of the area, although this was rectified not long after this when Tap Tap Cap was introduced across the full network.

 

[freddiem]

A couple of thoughts I've had during my commutes on LCB (particularly X27 X28

1. In the morning rush, the X27/28 are getting absolutely hammered by the stops between Hermiston and Longstone - many people using them as an X25 replacement and letting other services go by to get on - dwell times at these stops can mean the bus is losing up to 10 mins, (bus on time at Hermiston Walk and 10 mins late leaving Saughton Mains even with clear runs along bus lanes) - maybe time to remove a couple of the stops in this section for those buses

2. By 4pm, buses are running in pairs with no ability to turn them short due to different routes and necessity to serve all the areas - it's not unheard of for waits of up to 40mins between buses (not ideal after a long day) - maybe using Charlotte Sq as a terminus during the festival may help combat this to an extent...

Has anyone else had any musings about these things?

 

[mb88]

A couple of thoughts I've had during my commutes on LCB (particularly X27 X28

1. In the morning rush, the X27/28 are getting absolutely hammered by the stops between Hermiston and Longstone - many people using them as an X25 replacement and letting other services go by to get on - dwell times at these stops can mean the bus is losing up to 10 mins, (bus on time at Hermiston Walk and 10 mins late leaving Saughton Mains even with clear runs along bus lanes) - maybe time to remove a couple of the stops in this section for those buses

Absolutely agree 100% with this. When the X27/X28 first started they were limited stop all the way in from Burton’s and the same on the way back out. Now we serve every stop on this section and as you point out are getting absolutely hammered because it is the quickest way to get from Sighthill into the city, yet we get 1 minute less than the 25 to cover the same section. They either need to add extra time onto it or revert back to being limited stop.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

A couple of thoughts I've had during my commutes on LCB (particularly X27 X28

1. In the morning rush, the X27/28 are getting absolutely hammered by the stops between Hermiston and Longstone - many people using them as an X25 replacement and letting other services go by to get on - dwell times at these stops can mean the bus is losing up to 10 mins, (bus on time at Hermiston Walk and 10 mins late leaving Saughton Mains even with clear runs along bus lanes) - maybe time to remove a couple of the stops in this section for those buses

2. By 4pm, buses are running in pairs with no ability to turn them short due to different routes and necessity to serve all the areas - it's not unheard of for waits of up to 40mins between buses (not ideal after a long day) - maybe using Charlotte Sq as a terminus during the festival may help combat this to an extent...

Has anyone else had any musings about these things?

I’d rather more time was added than the stops removed, or do both and make it non stop from Chesser Avenue to the University (missing out Longstone and the first part of Sighthill). You wouldn’t want to end up with a similar scenario to the X6 if they were removed so it’s trying to find a balance. You could argue the X27/X28 are perhaps too long these days and that perhaps more local links within West Lothian would be better, there’s not many routes that go over the 1hr 40 mins mark now, never mind 2hrs +.

Could you stop the X28 at Deans North and have something else do the stretch out to Bathgate? The X27 could also run to Deans from Eliburn rather than to Whitburn which already has the X18, not sure what could serve Blackburn though. Both areas could instead have a local bus picking up the area. Again just a suggestion that may not work in a practical scenario.

 

[Mickcloud9]

The good thing about the X6 is that you get a bigger discount going to/from Edinburgh with a Ridacard as the fare is covered up to Tranent on the X6 so you only pay £2.80 from there to Haddington whereas the X7 is only covered up to The Jewel so you have to pay £3.80 from there to Haddington.

On another note it isn’t just First that are having issues with buses not showing up. I was waiting with someone going home from Edinburgh for the last X27 tonight (22:50) and nothing showed up.

Unfortunately the last First bus X25 was also cancelled which they could’ve got so we were waiting for nearly an hour for the X28 so that they could get on that and walk home the rest of their journey.

I thought the same too and there was clearly some people still standing around with their Lothian country tickets in their hand after that X28 left as well at 23:20. I don’t know where they lived I was thinking possibly Calderwood or somewhere that the X28 goes nowhere near as they let the X18 go past as well so must not be going to Whitburn.

Not to be negative but it’s ridiculous to have cancellations especially during a festival when there’s loads of extra people waiting than usual. I get that things are difficult these days but all you ever hear is staff shortages all over the world now it’s so frustrating.

LCB are doing their best with what resources they have. A major factor is driver and general staff shortages, however there is a factor that LCB have now become more reliable than First that they are often left plugging gaps that they were previously against a competitor service. Take all of that into account with the passenger numbers increasing in the city with the festival and major delays caused in and around the city and the 43 being overstretched with the re-route of the 41 and the countless diversions over this holiday period, it is clear LCB need a more focused approach to upgrading their network.

Most, if not all of the services require a provision review and other areas within West Lothian are screaming out for a better service than what is currently being provided. But again with the resources they have it’s an unprecedented situation in which they are experiencing passenger numbers they have ever seen before. What I find irritating is that when there is for example a Royal Highland Show or a major event at Ingliston show ground, Lothian pull resources from across the whole organisation to cover these events. If LCB and ECB are part of the same, why on earth are Lothian, the parent company, not giving them the support they need when the need is as clear as the nose on your face? It would appear the parent are not looking at the bigger picture.

 

[stevenedin]

I get that everywhere is short staffed however there are things you can do to prevent a last bus being cancelled. Pull someone off another run to cover it if their original run is not a last bus. Get one of the supervisors out to cover it. Phone round the other garages to see if they have anyone that can cover it. Get a manager to cover it. You can’t just leave people stranded. Especially since, unlike First, Lothian don’t publish a list of cancelled services to allow people to plan ahead. Lothian’s response to that is that ‘the app is updated’ which is fine on a busy, frequent city service but not on low-frequency services and especially not if it’s the last bus that’s cancelled. People need to see it written somewhere that a particular service will not run, not just turn up at the stop and only find out it’s not coming when they check the live tracker.

I agree.

Is it really all over the world?

Well at least in Europe as well as it was the same situation there when I went recently.

Just a thought, but if the location was westbound on Waterloo Place or Princes Street at the top of Waverley Steps could these people have turned up early for the Lothian Country 43 due around 23:30? I believe it ran successfully last night, if 10-15 minutes late.


If the target X27 was at 22:50 and the X28 at 23:20, isn't that only a half hour wait? Or did you arrive early for the no-show X27 then found the X28 was significantly late?

Possibly could have but I am not sure.

We arrived earlier to make sure that we were there on time for the last bus but still the X28 doesn’t go near where they stay so they had to walk home from St John’s Hospital on their own at that time of night which isn’t ideal as there is rarely any pavements in Livingston and walking through woods or shortcuts isn’t the nicest at that time of night. The X28 was on time roughly.

It should still be £2.80 for ridacard users from Edinburgh to Haddington on the X7. You only need to pay for the zones the card isn’t valid in (C and D), even if there’s no stops in Zone B.

I suspect problem is the system can’t have a Zone B stop (as there isn’t one) and therefore it’s too daft to notice it. What should happen is you put the ridacard on at a Zone A stop, the driver should then validate it for Zone D and then you pay the excess of £2.80 for Zones C and D, certainly this is what I used to do. Usually I just buy a County DayTicket though as that’s the cheapest thing to buy if you’re going both ways.

Whenever I used to head out West with LC (this was back in 2018) sometimes the driver would wait until I got into the CountryWEST zones before I could pay the excess. Again this was because the system couldn’t sell me the CountryWEST outside of the area, although this was rectified not long after this when Tap Tap Cap was introduced across the full network.

I agree it should be like this. Not all drivers seem to understand this. I remember having to pay £5.80 for a single back from Dunbar to Edinburgh with my ridacard. Also I had the same issue with North Berwick on the way I paid £3.80 on the way back I paid £2.80. I think that they would be better just applying a % of discount on the full fare if travelling out of the city zone fare area with a ridacard, it would be simpler.

A couple of thoughts I've had during my commutes on LCB (particularly X27 X28

1. In the morning rush, the X27/28 are getting absolutely hammered by the stops between Hermiston and Longstone - many people using them as an X25 replacement and letting other services go by to get on - dwell times at these stops can mean the bus is losing up to 10 mins, (bus on time at Hermiston Walk and 10 mins late leaving Saughton Mains even with clear runs along bus lanes) - maybe time to remove a couple of the stops in this section for those buses

2. By 4pm, buses are running in pairs with no ability to turn them short due to different routes and necessity to serve all the areas - it's not unheard of for waits of up to 40mins between buses (not ideal after a long day) - maybe using Charlotte Sq as a terminus during the festival may help combat this to an extent...

Has anyone else had any musings about these things?

It would be nice if they brought back the X25 or at least ran some peak part route X27 and X28s to say Hermiston Park & Ride or the Calders terminus on Calder Road.

Absolutely agree 100% with this. When the X27/X28 first started they were limited stop all the way in from Burton’s and the same on the way back out. Now we serve every stop on this section and as you point out are getting absolutely hammered because it is the quickest way to get from Sighthill into the city, yet we get 1 minute less than the 25 to cover the same section. They either need to add extra time onto it or revert back to being limited stop.

The 25 goes through Gorgie, Dalry, Haymarket and West End at Shandwick Place so this will add extra time onto the journey. I do agree that more time needs to be added though.

I’d rather more time was added than the stops removed, or do both and make it non stop from Chesser Avenue to the University (missing out Longstone and the first part of Sighthill). You wouldn’t want to end up with a similar scenario to the X6 if they were removed so it’s trying to find a balance. You could argue the X27/X28 are perhaps too long these days and that perhaps more local links within West Lothian would be better, there’s not many routes that go over the 1hr 40 mins mark now, never mind 2hrs +.

Could you stop the X28 at Deans North and have something else do the stretch out to Bathgate? The X27 could also run to Deans from Eliburn rather than to Whitburn which already has the X18, not sure what could serve Blackburn though. Both areas could instead have a local bus picking up the area. Again just a suggestion that may not work in a practical scenario.

I know what you mean. I think that even stopping every second stop would be nice or have one bus as a 227 or 228 which stops at every stop and does the full route and the X27 and X28 starting from Livingston Centre to Edinburgh City Centre and it serves all stops up to Burtons Biscuit Factory then stops at Sighthill Fire Station, Top of Broomhouse Crescent, Saughton Mains (Longstone Roundabout) then non stop to Chesser Avenue, Westfield Sainsbury’s, Fountainpark (rear) then non stop to the Exchange bus stop and the 2 stops on Princes Street. They could interwork together.

The X27 suggestion going to Deans would duplicate the route of the X24 from Eliburn Road so I’m not sure if there will be enough demand for it to go there unless they are wanting to push First out which it may help.

LCB are doing there best with what resources they have. A major factor is driver and general staff shortages, however there is a factor that LCB have now become more reliable than First that they are often left plugging gaps that they were previously against a competitor service. Take all of that into account with the passenger numbers increasing in the city with the festival and major delays caused in and around the city and the 43 being overstretched with the re-route of the 41 and the countless diversions over this holiday period, it is clear LCB need a more focused approach to upgrading their network. Most, if not all of the services require a provision review and other areas within West Lothian are screaming out for a better service than what is currently being provided. But again with the resources they have it’s an unprecedented situation in which they are experiencing passenger numbers they have ever seen before. What I find irritating is that when there is for example a Royal Highland Show or a major event at Ingliston show ground, Lothian pull resources from across the whole organisation to cover these events. If LCB and ECB are part of the same, why on earth are Lothian, the parent company, not giving them the support they need when the need is as clear as the nose on your face. It would appear the parent are not looking at the bigger picture…

I get that and they do provide a great service given the situation recently. I have noticed the lack of care with Lothian Country especially compared to Lothian city buses and even East Coast Buses. The city buses and ECB appear immaculate inside and the constant chopping and changing of routes in West Lothian (which I know there will be a reason for this). I feel like although there is an established customer base now in West Lothian, there are still some people who are noticing that not much is different compared to First and will just use whichever bus suits them and to be fair when you only have so many options you are cutting your nose off to spite your face if you deliberately avoid buses from other companies just so that you can get Lothian Country. The provision is just not there for people to use just one company like a lot of people so in Edinburgh.

 

[Mickcloud9]

I agree.


Well at least in Europe as well as it was the same situation there when I went recently.


Possibly could have but I am not sure.

We arrived earlier to make sure that we were there on time for the last bus but still the X28 doesn’t go near where they stay so they had to walk home from St John’s Hospital on their own at that time of night which isn’t ideal as there is rarely any pavements in Livingston and walking through woods or shortcuts isn’t the nicest at that time of night. The X28 was on time roughly.


I agree it should be like this. Not all drivers seem to understand this. I remember having to pay £5.80 for a single back from Dunbar to Edinburgh with my ridacard. Also I had the same issue with North Berwick on the way I paid £3.80 on the way back I paid £2.80. I think that they would be better just applying a % of discount on the full fare if travelling out of the city zone fare area with a ridacard, it would be simpler.


It would be nice if they brought back the X25 or at least ran some peak part route X27 and X28s to say Hermiston Park & Ride or the Calders terminus on Calder Road.


The 25 goes through Gorgie, Dalry, Haymarket and West End at Shandwick Place so this will add extra time onto the journey. I do agree that more time needs to be added though.


I know what you mean. I think that even stopping every second stop would be nice or have one bus as a 227 or 228 which stops at every stop and does the full route and the X27 and X28 starting from Livingston Centre to Edinburgh City Centre and it serves all stops up to Burtons Biscuit Factory then stops at Sighthill Fire Station, Top of Broomhouse Crescent, Saughton Mains (Longstone Roundabout) then non stop to Chesser Avenue, Westfield Sainsbury’s, Fountainpark (rear) then non stop to the Exchange bus stop and the 2 stops on Princes Street. They could interwork together.

The X27 suggestion going to Deans would duplicate the route of the X24 from Eliburn Road so I’m not sure if there will be enough demand for it to go there unless they are wanting to push First out which it may help.



I get that and they do provide a great service given the situation recently. I have noticed the lack of care with Lothian Country especially compared to Lothian city buses and even East Coast Buses. The city buses and ECB appear immaculate inside and the constant chopping and changing of routes in West Lothian (which I know there will be a reason for this). I feel like although there is an established customer base now in West Lothian, there are still some people who are noticing that not much is different compared to First and will just use whichever bus suits them and to be fair when you only have so many options you are cutting your nose off to spite your face if you deliberately avoid buses from other companies just so that you can get Lothian Country. The provision is just not there for people to use just one company like a lot of people so in Edinburgh.

I agree with every word here. I think LCB are not given the care and attention they should be given especially as it is a relatively new and growing part of the business. Fair enough, the ups and down of the past few years have taken a toll on Lothian’s overall financial performance but I would be more inclined to put more backing into a part of the business that’s experiencing vast growth. They are doing well out in West Lothian but now is not the time to rest on your laurels, now should be the time to fire up and show commitment to the people within that community that the service is provided for them and that Lothian are very serious about ensuring the service is at the same standard as ECB and City.