Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[LothianBusesPh]

Its a bit pointless having them with them never being out. Do they still have the full fleet?

As of April this year, yes. AO1 is also at Newbridge.

 

[VioletEclipse]

As of April this year, yes. AO1 is also at Newbridge.

wow, I was fully sure that thing had been scrapped many years ago. Any idea why they still keep it around?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

wow, I was fully sure that thing had been scrapped many years ago. Any idea why they still keep it around?

There seems to be a trend of this company not scraping vehicles. Perhaps there’s more important things to worry about for them.

 

[ScotRail158725]

As of April this year, yes. AO1 is also at Newbridge.

As i said its a bit pointless having them all to sit idle for about 5 years now. Be aswell selling them off

 

[Baileygirl]

As of April this year, yes. AO1 is also at Newbridge.

What is AO1?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

As i said its a bit pointless having them all to sit idle for about 5 years now. Be aswell selling them off

Streetairs are on the move now. From what I’ve heard, they’re going to Ballymana.

What is AO1?

A Dennis Dart Caetano Compass which was mainly used for advertising. Most notably for Edinburgh Trams and as a general promotional bus for Lothian.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Streetairs are on the move now. From what I’ve heard, they’re going to Ballymana.

If they’re away to Ballymena then there’s obviously a plan of some kind to restore them to a roadworthy condition. Should make it absolutely clear that it may not be with Lothian. A sale could be done with Wrightbus who would then sell them to a new buyer.

See what happens, they’re in a really bad state after all.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Streetairs are on the move now. From what I’ve heard, they’re going to Ballymana.

I was on about the heritage fleet.

Suprirsed to see those moving though, hopefully scrap best place for them

 

[CSB0241]

Information collected by searching each route number on lvf.io.

CENTRAL:
Route 1: Off-peak vehicle requirement ("OPVR"): about 10. Vehicle type 7900.
Route 2: OPVR = about 8. Type = 7900.
Route 7: OPVR = about 8. Type = 2011 B9/G2.
Route 8: OPVR = about 6. Type = mostly BZL.
Route 9: OPVR = about 6. Type = mostly BZL.
Route 10: OPVR = about 7. Type = 2009 and 2011 B9/G2.
Route 11: OPVR = about 14. Type = mostly B8L/400XLB.
Route 14: OPVR = about 8. Type = mostly 2011 B9/G2.
Route 16: OPVR = about 17. Type = B8L/400XLB.
Route 23: OPVR = about 8. Type = 2011 B9/G2.
Route 24: OPVR = about 11. Type = mostly 2011 B9/G2.
Route 27: OPVR = about 10. Type = mostly 2016 B5/G3.
Route 29: OPVR = about 10. Type = 2016 B5/G3.
Route 31: OPVR = about 12. Type = mix of 2019 B8L/400XLB, 2016 B5/G3, 2021 B5/400MMC, and 2011 B9/G2.
Route 37: OPVR = about 14. Type = 2021 B5/400MMC.
Route 47: OPVR = about 10. Type = B8L/400XLB.
Route 100: OPVR = about 10. Type = B8L/400XLB.
All B8L/400XLBs are 2019.
SUM off-peak vehicles = about 169.

LONGSTONE
Route 3: OPVR = about 19. Type = 2021 B5/400MMC.
Route 20: OPVR = about 1. Type = B8RLE/Evora.
Route 22: OPVR = about 6. Type = mostly 2015 B5/G3.
Route 25: OPVR = about 14. Type = mostly 2021 B5/400MMC.
Route 30: OPVR = about 19. Type = mostly B8RLE/Evora.
Route 32: OPVR = about 1. Type = 7900.
Route 33: OPVR = about 8. Type = mostly ex-London dual-door 2011 B9/G2.
Route 34: OPVR = about 9. Type = mostly 2015 B5LH/G3.
Route 35: OPVR = about 12. Type = mostly 2015 B5LH/G3.
Route 36: OPVR = about 7. Type = 7900 and B8RLE/Evora.
Route 38: OPVR = about 6. Type = B8RLE/Evora.
Route 44: OPVR = about 19. Type = 2021 B5/400MMC.
Route 200: OPVR = about 4. Type = Skylink 2017 B5/G3.
Route 400: OPVR = about 7. Type = Skylink 2017 B5/G3.
All B8RLE/Evora vehicles are 2020. All 7900s are 2013 or 2014.
SUM off-peak vehicles = about 132.

MARINE
Route 4: OPVR = about 8. Type = ex-London 2011 B9/G2.
Route 5: OPVR = about 8. Type = ex-London 2011 B9/G2.
Route 12: OPVR = about 6. Type = 7900 and 2013 B7RLE/U2.
Route 15: OPVR = about 2. Type = 2011 B9/G2.
Route 19: OPVR = about 10. Type = 2014 B5/G3C.
Route 21: OPVR = about 12. Type = 2014 B5/G3C, ex-London 2011 B9/G2, and Zoo 2017 B5/G3.
Route 26: OPVR = about 23. Type = mostly Zoo 2017 B5/G3.
Route 45: OPVR = about 4. Type = 2011 B9/G2.
Route 46: OPVR = about 8. Type = mostly 2013 B7RLE/U2.
Route 48: OPVR = about 6. Type = B7RLE/U2 (mix of 2013, 2010, and ex-East Coast 2012).
Route 49: OPVR = about 9. Type = 2021 B5/400MMC.
All 7900s are 2013 or 2014.
SUM off-peak vehicles = about 96.

MUSSELBURGH
Route X5: OPVR = about 2. Type = 2017 B8RLE/U3.
Route X6: OPVR = about 4. Type = 2018 B5/G3, and 2010 B9/G2.
Route 106: OPVR = about 2. Type = 2017 B8RLE/U3, and 2012 B7RLE/U2.
Route X7: OPVR = about 7. Type = 2017 B8RLE/U2.
Route 113: OPVR = about 6. Type = 2018 B5/G3, and 2010 B9/G2.
Route 124: OPVR = about 7. Type = 2018 B5/G3, and 2010 B9/G2.
Route 139: OPVR = about 1. Type = 2010 B9/G2.
Routes 140 and 141: OPVR = about 5. Type = 2010 B9/G2, and 2018 B5/G3.
SUM off-peak vehicles = about 34.

LIVINGSTON
Route 43: OPVR = about 6. Type = mostly 2017 B5LH/G3.
Route 70: OPVR = about 1. Type = 2017 B5LH/G3.
Route 71: OPVR = about 1. Type = 2017 B5LH/G3.
Route 72: OPVR = about 4. Type = 2017 B5LH/G3, and ex-London 2011 B9/G2.
Route 73PVR = about 2. Type = 2009 B9/G2.
Route 74: OPVR = about 2. Type = 2009 B9/G2.
Route X18: OPVR = about 8. Type = mostly ex-London 2011 B9/G2.
Routes X27 and X28: OPVR = about 11. Type = mostly ex-Motorcoaches 2008 B9/G1.
Route X40: OPVR = about 3. Type = ex-London 2011 B9/G2.
SUM off-peak vehicles = about 38.

This is interesting. I’ve noticed quite a couple errors though, the X5 is listed as having a VR of 2, when in reality it needs 3 vehicles on the route, & the 32 says it has a VR of 1 instead of 2. Other routes with errors I noticed were: 4; 8; 15; 21; 33; 45; 46; 47; 48; X6; 113; 124; 43; & X27/8.

If they’re away to Ballymena then there’s obviously a plan of some kind to restore them to a roadworthy condition. Should make it absolutely clear that it may not be with Lothian. A sale could be done with Wrightbus who would then sell them to a new buyer.

See what happens, they’re in a really bad state after all.

I heard a proposal from the Lothian Buses Enthusiasts Facebook group about how a good idea could be a hydrogen repower, but I doubt it. I think if in the unlikely circumstance that they reenter service, they’d get a deisel repower ( building off of the GB Hawk or Streetlite) & maybe reenter service at Livingston for use on the 70/71 & maybe other routes.

Has anybody noticed since the service change some buses reliability has nosedived? multiple times this week I have seen 3 24s in a row.

I was in Blackford on Friday & saw 3 24s towards West Granton & 2 towards the Royal Infirmary in the span of 2 minutes on West Savile Terrace. I definitely think that it needs reworked in some way, maybe curtailing it at the Western General (with the 27 maybe being rerouted to Granton to replace it)?

there are 4 way lights at marchmont that are having an effect on the 24 in both directions, as well as the diversion heading to the RIE at Cameron Toll.

That’s fair, that’ll probably be doing numbers to it. I tried to look on the council’s list of roadworks & travel disruptions multiple times to see if there was any reports of it, but I can’t see anything about it oddly.

A quick comment on the doors open day at Marine. I was super surprised to see the mass return of the Streetairs though! Definitely the gotcha of the day!

I didn’t see the Streetairs at the Doors Open Day, if I’d have known they’d be there I’d have looked around a bit closer.

 

[scosutsut]

I hate to fire up the speculation bus on the Streetairs but I can think of two potential use cases for them should they be revived.

I could see Wright's interest in doing it too, to try and revive a relationship that used to bring them a lot of business that completely dried up.

Let's see what happens!

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Note that bus 224 is also there at Wrightbus.

 

[DunsBus]

I hate to fire up the speculation bus on the Streetairs but I can think of two potential use cases for them should they be revived.

I could see Wright's interest in doing it too, to try and revive a relationship that used to bring them a lot of business that completely dried up.

Let's see what happens!

The answer is rather more mundane. The StreetAirs have reached the end of their lease period and are being taken back by Wrightbus.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The answer is rather more mundane. The StreetAirs have reached the end of their lease period and are being taken back by Wrightbus.

I do wonder what on earth they can do with them now, if anything? I was always under the impression that Lothian owned them, effectively being given to them for free as part as a gift as part of that massive 200+ Wrightbus order made under Richard Hall.

 

[DunsBus]

I do wonder what on earth they can do with them now, if anything? I was always under the impression that Lothian owned them, effectively being given to them for free as part as a gift as part of that massive 200+ Wrightbus order made under Richard Hall.

Possibly refit them, then sell them on.

 

[Lothian285]

I was always under the impression that Lothian owned them

So was I, the launch article from 2017 seems to imply that they purchased them: Lothian introduce the first all-electric buses to Edinburgh

Today, 28 September 2017, we launched a fleet of six brand new fully electric vehicles.

At an investment of over £2.7million, the new Wrightbus Street Air single deck buses will operate on our Service 1 route from Monday 2 October which carries around 1.8 million customers each year.

The service runs through Edinburgh’s central air quality management area, and this investment cements our commitment to reduce emissions and improve air quality in the area.

 

[cnjb8]

Possibly refit them, then sell them on.

I reckon they may end up like the electric StreetLites at Milton Keynes, sold for trials and then scrapped

 

[Ghostbus]

There seems to be a trend of this company not scraping vehicles. Perhaps there’s more important things to worry about for them.

It was always standard practice for Lothian to sell withdrawn vehicles. They were in good condition having been well maintained, and since the fleet was routinely replaced well before the buses reached their tenth birthday, they were always in high demand on the second hand market, typically independent operators looking for small quantities.

This continued at least into the latter Volvo Wrightbus (cute LED headlights) era as far as I can tell, as I saw first hand an ex-Lothian bus happily living out its second life with an independent operator near me. Freshly painted, it looked brand new.

These days, with smaller and non standard batches, second hand purchases, more complicated buses, and the innumerable management changes and creation of sister companies that don't mind using older buses, who knows what the policy is now.

The tri-axles would make pretty decent school buses for a county operator....

 

[LKF747R]

Information from a search on Bus lists on the web (buslistsontheweb.co.uk) about next electric bus registrations reveals 5 as follows :
SF74YML, SF74YMO, SF74YMP, SF74YMR, and SF74YMS. No fleet numbers or any other details given for them as yet.

 

[cnjb8]

Information from a search on Bus lists on the web (buslistsontheweb.co.uk) about next electric bus registrations reveals 5 as follows :
SF74YML, SF74YMO, SF74YMP, SF74YMR, and SF74YMS. No fleet numbers or any other details given for them as yet.

These have a B8R chassis according to BLOTW so they won't be the next batch

 

[LKF747R]

These have a B8R chassis according to BLOTW so they won't be the next batch

I am taking the B8R indication with a pinch of salt as not aware of any such order for B8Rs

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I am taking the B8R indication with a pinch of salt as not aware of any such order for B8Rs

DVLA shows these as having 7698cc engines, so they won’t be BZL’s.

 

[LKF747R]

DVLA shows these as having 7698cc engines, so they won’t be BZL’s.

Point understood. So in which case they may not be vehicles for Lothian Buses at all as it is not stated who they belong too.

 

[nesw]

Yes, routes like the 3, 26 and 44 are among the longest City routes and are also some of the most frequent (3 and 44 are both currently every twelve minutes and the 26 is currently every ten).

I've worked out the length of that I think are the longest Lothian Buses (City) routes:
Route 3: length 18 miles, time by car 2 hours 10 minutes.
Route 15: length 16 miles, time by car 1 hour 50 minutes (using Eastfield to Penicuik centre).
Route 21 (Clovenstone branch): length 17 miles, time by car 1 hour 50 minutes.
Route 26 (Seton Sands branch): length 18 miles, time by car 2 hours 0 minutes.
Route 29: length 16 miles, time by car 1 hour 50 minutes.
Route 30: length 15 miles, time by car 1 hour 50 minutes (using route to Musselburgh).
Route 31 (Hopefield branch): length 16 miles, time by car 2 hours 10 minutes.
Route 37 (Penicuik branch): length 19 miles, time by car 2 hours 0 minutes.
Route 44: length 19 miles, time by car 2 hours 0 minutes.
Route 47: length 18 miles, time by car 2 hours 0 minutes.
Route 400: length 17 miles, time by car 1 hour 40 minutes.
Distances calculated using Google Maps but are only rough as I can't path along Princes Street and various other roads are closed or bus-only. Times were for car one-way leaving at 12 midday.


Before COVID, for the August 2018 timetable I've got written down that the 3, 31, and 44 were all every 10 minutes and the 26 was every 7.5 minutes. Interestingly I've got written down that the 30 was only every twelve minutes - I thought it would have been every 10?

The most reliable way of working out the vehicle blocks is by looking at the journey/trip numbers that are shown In the real time feed. The numbers follow the vehicle rather than the timetable and using Bustimes it should be possible to get a reasonably accurate overview.

 

[Edirim]

The most reliable way of working out the vehicle blocks is by looking at the journey/trip numbers that are shown In the real time feed. The numbers follow the vehicle rather than the timetable and using Bustimes it should be possible to get a reasonably accurate overview.

Happy to share the midweek ones I've worked out with anyone and which has more information than the list I previously shared.

Working on Saturday and Sunday blocks soon.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Point understood. So in which case they may not be vehicles for Lothian Buses at all as it is not stated who they belong too.

They’re MCV bodied B8R coaches by the looks of it so probably for a Scottish based coach operator. As you say, not Lothian.

 

[InOban]

But the SF registration suggests Edinburgh

 

[318266]

But the SF registration suggests Edinburgh

I regret to inform you there are coach companies in Edinburgh that aren't Motorcoaches.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

But the SF registration suggests Edinburgh

SF is actually a Glasgow registration, probably as that’s where Volvo’s biggest service centre at Cardonald is. Since the DVLA closed their regional offices, the manufacturer usually registers their buses now. Previously it was usually the operator. Volvo have been registering in Glasgow since the 15 plates in 2015, before that Coventry was used for a few years.

 

[DunsBus]

SF is actually a Glasgow registration, probably as that’s where Volvo’s biggest service centre at Cardonald is. Since the DVLA closed their regional offices, the manufacturer usually registers their buses now. Previously it was usually the operator. Volvo have been registering in Glasgow since the 15 plates in 2015, before that Coventry was used for a few years.

SF was an Edinburgh registration pre-2001.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

SF was an Edinburgh registration pre-2001.

Indeed it was, but since 2001 SA-SJ have all been Glasgow and the West Coast.