Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Sussexscot]

For quite a while, I have been using tfeapp.com/live to track what is happening in and around Edinburgh but since all the issues about vehicles not tracking Does anyone know if the TfE App is going to return once the tracking problems are completely resolved?

 

[Bus9120UK]

For quite a while, I have been using tfeapp.com/live to track what is happening in and around Edinburgh but since all the issues about vehicles not tracking Does anyone know if the TfE App is going to return once the tracking problems are completely resolved?

I believe the website was removed as its main purpose was to advertise the now former app. The main page redirects to the Lothian site now. Tracking is still available on their main website, via bustimes.org, or on any of the apps.

 

[Lothiangem22]

Apparently several of the central 400’s heading west once more of the electrics arrive.

 

[LothianLover88]

Does anyone have a source where I can see each vehicle's depot? Would help a lot!

 

[Lothiangem22]

Does anyone have a source where I can see each vehicle's depot? Would help a lot!

Not entirely up to date, but this is the latest on LB website.

A few differences but 90% still as per below

https://www.lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Fleet-List-Q1-2024.pdf

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Apparently several of the central 400’s heading west once more of the electrics arrive.

Underwhelming if the case.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Underwhelming if the case.

I’ve heard this as well, if it helps. I don’t know for sure. 600s would be nice for Lothian Country.

Replacements will be moving to Seafield very soon.

 

[stevenedin]

They have trialled them in 2020 on Lothian Country and East Coast Buses routes and they seemed to perform well so I’m sure that they will be fine. I take it when you say 400s you mean 441-467 or are any of 426-437 left at Central?

 

[Bus9120UK]

In my opinion its certainly not impossible and I've always viewed them as candidates but the repaints they've had within the last year just seem like a waste of resources if they were to go through yet another part body refurbishment (as Lothian call it) and coating of paint.
I agree that the 600s are the best options here. They are still quite young so they'll have a long time ahead of them if they were to move.

I will note, a lot of 441-465 have been at Seafield recently but I'm not 100% as to what they are doing with them. Any clues? Could this be related?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I will note, a lot of 441-465 have been at Seafield recently but I'm not 100% as to what they are doing with them. Any clues? Could this be related?

841-850 don’t have long left, it will be a matter of weeks now. I don’t know what’s going on with 441-465 as they are having slight changes done. They should get repainted into Green and White.

 

[percycranky]

Does anyone have a source where I can see each vehicle's depot? Would help a lot!

Not entirely up to date, but this is the latest on LB website.

A few differences but 90% still as per below

https://www.lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Fleet-List-Q1-2024.pdf

There's another list (ukbuses.com) which is accurate as of June 2024. The aforementioned list was updated in January 2024. There's also this list which is also accurate as of June 2024.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Does anyone have a source where I can see each vehicle's depot? Would help a lot!

1-13 Central, 14-28 Longstone, 29-45 Central, 46-50 Marine
51-65 Musselburgh
66-95 Longstone
172-198 Marine, 199 Musselburgh
221-250 Marine
291-294 Central
351-400 Central
401-425 Marine
426-437 Longstone
441-465 Central
466-468 Central, 469-495 Marine
496-510 Longstone
511-518 Musselburgh
551-570 Longstone
571-590 Livingston
601-640 Longstone, 641-650 Marine, 651-669 Longstone, 670/1 Central, 672-680 Marine, 681-698 Central
700-711 Central
841-850 Livingston
905/6 Marine
926-928 Central, 929-936 Livingston
937-950 Musselburgh
951-960 Marine
1000/1 Longstone, 1002/3 Central,1004-1032 Marine, 1033-1050 Livingston
1051-1062 Musselburgh
1063-1140 Central
1141-1153 Longstone

 

[LothianLover88]

1-13 Central, 14-28 Longstone, 29-45 Central, 46-50 Marine
51-65 Musselburgh
66-95 Longstone
172-198 Marine, 199 Musselburgh
221-250 Marine
291-294 Central
351-400 Central
401-425 Marine
426-437 Longstone
441-465 Central
466-468 Central, 469-495 Marine
496-510 Longstone
511-518 Musselburgh
551-570 Longstone
571-590 Livingston
601-640 Longstone, 641-650 Marine, 651-669 Longstone, 670/1 Central, 672-680 Marine, 681-698 Central
701-711 Central
841-850 Livingston
905/6 Marine
926-928 Central, 929-936 Livingston
937-950 Musselburgh
951-960 Marine
1000/1 Longstone, 1002/3 Central,1004-1032 Marine, 1033-1050 Livingston
1051-1062 Musselburgh
1063-1140 Central
1141-1153 Longstone

There's another list (ukbuses.com) which is accurate as of June 2024. The aforementioned list was updated in January 2024. There's also this list which is also accurate as of June 2024.

Not entirely up to date, but this is the latest on LB website.

A few differences but 90% still as per below

https://www.lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Fleet-List-Q1-2024.pdf

Helps a lot, means I can keep track of what's in/out and since there's a lot of buses, it gets confusing at times!

 

[DGP]

Can I just add my thanks to those who have posted about fleet and allocation lists.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Apparently someone stabbed last night one the 400. 498 or 499 involved

 

[percycranky]

Apparently someone stabbed last night one the 400. 498 or 499 involved

Do you have a source to back this up? I can't find any recent news article that covers this story.

 

[Lothiangem22]

There’s regular incidents big and small - it’s bound to happen when covering such a big population. I don’t understand why this is relevant to this thread however?

 

[LothianLover88]

There’s regular incidents big and small - it’s bound to happen when covering such a big population. I don’t understand why this is relevant to this thread however?

I think he means on the Skylink 400 - and the buses 498 or 499 were involved, I might be wrong. I suppose it happened on a bus but I do fail to understand how a stabbing on a bus has to relate to this thread.

 

[Siemens Trains]

I think he means on the Skylink 400 - and the buses 498 or 499 were involved, I might be wrong. I suppose it happened on a bus but I do fail to understand how a stabbing on a bus has to relate to this thread.

Putting aside concerns for anyone directly affected by the alleged incident, a couple of factors relevant to the Lothian group are imaginable.
There could have been disruption to the service pending investigation or perhaps damage sustained to the bus interior that needed repair (although I believe both 498 and 499 were running today). Plus the possibility that witnesses might be discouraged from travelling on the 400 route or driving buses in the longer term.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Do drivers have a favourite or least-favourite type of bus to drive? I was thinking about the fact that the ex-Motorcoach B9s at Lothian Country are soon going to be gone, and wondering if drivers like or dislike them compared to the B5LH hybrids and the ex-London B9s?

The B5LH hybrids seem to be faster pulling away from a stop but I think are limited to 43mph? Which sounds like it would be frustrating if trying to make up time.
The ex-London B9s are shorter so are they easier to get round the tight streets in West Lothian?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Do drivers have a favourite or least-favourite type of bus to drive? I was thinking about the fact that the ex-Motorcoach B9s at Lothian Country are soon going to be gone, and wondering if drivers like or dislike them compared to the B5LH hybrids and the ex-London B9s?

The B5LH hybrids seem to be faster pulling away from a stop but I think are limited to 43mph? Which sounds like it would be frustrating if trying to make up time.
The ex-London B9s are shorter so are they easier to get round the tight streets in West Lothian?

Depends on whos driving a lot wont care how a vehicle drives its just work to them and others it will depend on how they drive

 

[computerSaysNo]

Depends on whos driving a lot wont care how a vehicle drives its just work to them and others it will depend on how they drive

Fair enough.


For future reference I have recorded the types of vehicles operating on each route (assuming that "today" reflects the average day for allocations).

Vehicle types clarification below (shown here in order of appearance in the list).
Chassis and integrals: "7900" = Volvo 7900H. "B9" = Volvo B9TL. "BZL" = Volvo BZL. "400EV" = ADL Enviro400MMC body on the BYD electric chassis. "B8L" = Volvo B8L. "B5" = Volvo B5TL. "B8RLE" = Volvo B8RLE. "B5LH" = Volvo B5LH (hybrid). "B8RLE" = Volvo B8RLE. "B7RLE" = Volvo B7RLE.

Bodies: "G2" = Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 (double deck). "400XLB" = ADL Enviro400 MMC XLB (double deck). "400MMC" = ADL Enviro400MMC (double deck). "G3" = Wright Eclipse Gemini 3 (with Stealth front; double deck). "Evora" = MCV Evora (single deck). "U2" = Wright Eclipse Urban 2 (single deck). "G3C" = Wright Eclipse Gemini 3 (with Classic front; double deck). "U3" = Wright Eclipse Urban 3 (single deck). "G1" = Wright Eclipse Gemini (1) (double deck).

Information collected by searching each route number on lvf.io.

CENTRAL:
Route 1: Off-peak vehicle requirement ("OPVR"): about 10. Vehicle type 7900.
Route 2: OPVR = about 8. Type = 7900.
Route 7: OPVR = about 8. Type = 2011 B9/G2.
Route 8: OPVR = about 6. Type = mostly BZL.
Route 9: OPVR = about 6. Type = mostly BZL.
Route 10: OPVR = about 7. Type = 2009 and 2011 B9/G2.
Route 11: OPVR = about 14. Type = mostly B8L/400XLB.
Route 14: OPVR = about 8. Type = mostly 2011 B9/G2.
Route 16: OPVR = about 17. Type = B8L/400XLB.
Route 23: OPVR = about 8. Type = 2011 B9/G2.
Route 24: OPVR = about 11. Type = mostly 2011 B9/G2.
Route 27: OPVR = about 10. Type = mostly 2016 B5/G3.
Route 29: OPVR = about 10. Type = 2016 B5/G3.
Route 31: OPVR = about 12. Type = mix of 2019 B8L/400XLB, 2016 B5/G3, 2021 B5/400MMC, and 2011 B9/G2.
Route 37: OPVR = about 14. Type = 2021 B5/400MMC.
Route 47: OPVR = about 10. Type = B8L/400XLB.
Route 100: OPVR = about 10. Type = B8L/400XLB.
All B8L/400XLBs are 2019.
SUM off-peak vehicles = about 169.

LONGSTONE
Route 3: OPVR = about 19. Type = 2021 B5/400MMC.
Route 20: OPVR = about 1. Type = B8RLE/Evora.
Route 22: OPVR = about 6. Type = mostly 2015 B5/G3.
Route 25: OPVR = about 14. Type = mostly 2021 B5/400MMC.
Route 30: OPVR = about 19. Type = mostly B8RLE/Evora.
Route 32: OPVR = about 1. Type = 7900.
Route 33: OPVR = about 8. Type = mostly ex-London dual-door 2011 B9/G2.
Route 34: OPVR = about 9. Type = mostly 2015 B5LH/G3.
Route 35: OPVR = about 12. Type = mostly 2015 B5LH/G3.
Route 36: OPVR = about 7. Type = 7900 and B8RLE/Evora.
Route 38: OPVR = about 6. Type = B8RLE/Evora.
Route 44: OPVR = about 19. Type = 2021 B5/400MMC.
Route 200: OPVR = about 4. Type = Skylink 2017 B5/G3.
Route 400: OPVR = about 7. Type = Skylink 2017 B5/G3.
All B8RLE/Evora vehicles are 2020. All 7900s are 2013 or 2014.
SUM off-peak vehicles = about 132.

MARINE
Route 4: OPVR = about 8. Type = ex-London 2011 B9/G2.
Route 5: OPVR = about 8. Type = ex-London 2011 B9/G2.
Route 12: OPVR = about 6. Type = 7900 and 2013 B7RLE/U2.
Route 15: OPVR = about 2. Type = 2011 B9/G2.
Route 19: OPVR = about 10. Type = 2014 B5/G3C.
Route 21: OPVR = about 12. Type = 2014 B5/G3C, ex-London 2011 B9/G2, and Zoo 2017 B5/G3.
Route 26: OPVR = about 23. Type = mostly Zoo 2017 B5/G3.
Route 45: OPVR = about 4. Type = 2011 B9/G2.
Route 46: OPVR = about 8. Type = mostly 2013 B7RLE/U2.
Route 48: OPVR = about 6. Type = B7RLE/U2 (mix of 2013, 2010, and ex-East Coast 2012).
Route 49: OPVR = about 9. Type = 2021 B5/400MMC.
All 7900s are 2013 or 2014.
SUM off-peak vehicles = about 96.

MUSSELBURGH
Route X5: OPVR = about 2. Type = 2017 B8RLE/U3.
Route X6: OPVR = about 4. Type = 2018 B5/G3, and 2010 B9/G2.
Route 106: OPVR = about 2. Type = 2017 B8RLE/U3, and 2012 B7RLE/U2.
Route X7: OPVR = about 7. Type = 2017 B8RLE/U2.
Route 113: OPVR = about 6. Type = 2018 B5/G3, and 2010 B9/G2.
Route 124: OPVR = about 7. Type = 2018 B5/G3, and 2010 B9/G2.
Route 139: OPVR = about 1. Type = 2010 B9/G2.
Routes 140 and 141: OPVR = about 5. Type = 2010 B9/G2, and 2018 B5/G3.
SUM off-peak vehicles = about 34.

LIVINGSTON
Route 43: OPVR = about 6. Type = mostly 2017 B5LH/G3.
Route 70: OPVR = about 1. Type = 2017 B5LH/G3.
Route 71: OPVR = about 1. Type = 2017 B5LH/G3.
Route 72: OPVR = about 4. Type = 2017 B5LH/G3, and ex-London 2011 B9/G2.
Route 73PVR = about 2. Type = 2009 B9/G2.
Route 74: OPVR = about 2. Type = 2009 B9/G2.
Route X18: OPVR = about 8. Type = mostly ex-London 2011 B9/G2.
Routes X27 and X28: OPVR = about 11. Type = mostly ex-Motorcoaches 2008 B9/G1.
Route X40: OPVR = about 3. Type = ex-London 2011 B9/G2.
SUM off-peak vehicles = about 38.

 

[atfd26]

Has anybody noticed since the service change some buses reliability has nosedived multiple times this week I have seen 3 24s in a row. 29 is all over the place as well but has been for a while.

 

[Auld reekie]

Has anybody noticed since the service change some buses reliability has nosedived multiple times this week I have seen 3 24s in a row. 29 is all over the place as well but has been for a while.

The 44 is still running consistently 2 together as before.

 

[SilentWatcher]

Has anybody noticed since the service change some buses reliability has nosedived multiple times this week I have seen 3 24s in a row. 29 is all over the place as well but has been for a while.

The on off closure of the western approach road has been having a considerable impact on some services going through the Haymarket junction as well.

 

[percycranky]

Fair enough.


For future reference I have recorded the types of vehicles operating on each route (assuming that "today" reflects the average day for allocations).

[list removed for space concerns, can be seen by referring to post #13,132 above]

Thank you very much for this list! It will certainly come into use. What surprised me is the off-peak vehicle requirements for some routes, especially the 44, which doesn't seem like there are 19 buses all travelling at once! Might it be due to the route being longer than others, since it does go from Balerno to Wallyford...

 

[computerSaysNo]

Thank you very much for this list! It will certainly come into use. What surprised me is the off-peak vehicle requirements for some routes, especially the 44, which doesn't seem like there are 19 buses all travelling at once! Might it be due to the route being longer than others, since it does go from Balerno to Wallyford...

Yes, routes like the 3, 26 and 44 are among the longest City routes and are also some of the most frequent (3 and 44 are both currently every twelve minutes and the 26 is currently every ten).

I've worked out the length of that I think are the longest Lothian Buses (City) routes:
Route 3: length 18 miles, time by car 2 hours 10 minutes.
Route 15: length 16 miles, time by car 1 hour 50 minutes (using Eastfield to Penicuik centre).
Route 21 (Clovenstone branch): length 17 miles, time by car 1 hour 50 minutes.
Route 26 (Seton Sands branch): length 18 miles, time by car 2 hours 0 minutes.
Route 29: length 16 miles, time by car 1 hour 50 minutes.
Route 30: length 15 miles, time by car 1 hour 50 minutes (using route to Musselburgh).
Route 31 (Hopefield branch): length 16 miles, time by car 2 hours 10 minutes.
Route 37 (Penicuik branch): length 19 miles, time by car 2 hours 0 minutes.
Route 44: length 19 miles, time by car 2 hours 0 minutes.
Route 47: length 18 miles, time by car 2 hours 0 minutes.
Route 400: length 17 miles, time by car 1 hour 40 minutes.
Distances calculated using Google Maps but are only rough as I can't path along Princes Street and various other roads are closed or bus-only. Times were for car one-way leaving at 12 midday.


Before COVID, for the August 2018 timetable I've got written down that the 3, 31, and 44 were all every 10 minutes and the 26 was every 7.5 minutes. Interestingly I've got written down that the 30 was only every twelve minutes - I thought it would have been every 10?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Has anybody noticed since the service change some buses reliability has nosedived multiple times this week I have seen 3 24s in a row. 29 is all over the place as well but has been for a while.

24 has been awful since the change.

The 8 seems to be hammered often aswell

Yes, routes like the 3, 26 and 44 are among the longest City routes and are also some of the most frequent (3 and 44 are both currently every twelve minutes and the 26 is currently every ten).

I've worked out the length of that I think are the longest Lothian Buses (City) routes:
Route 3: length 18 miles, time by car 2 hours 10 minutes.
Route 15: length 16 miles, time by car 1 hour 50 minutes (using Eastfield to Penicuik centre).
Route 21 (Clovenstone branch): length 17 miles, time by car 1 hour 50 minutes.
Route 26 (Seton Sands branch): length 18 miles, time by car 2 hours 0 minutes.
Route 29: length 16 miles, time by car 1 hour 50 minutes.
Route 30: length 15 miles, time by car 1 hour 50 minutes (using route to Musselburgh).
Route 31 (Hopefield branch): length 16 miles, time by car 2 hours 10 minutes.
Route 37 (Penicuik branch): length 19 miles, time by car 2 hours 0 minutes.
Route 44: length 19 miles, time by car 2 hours 0 minutes.
Route 47: length 18 miles, time by car 2 hours 0 minutes.
Route 400: length 17 miles, time by car 1 hour 40 minutes.
Distances calculated using Google Maps but are only rough as I can't path along Princes Street and various other roads are closed or bus-only. Times were for car one-way leaving at 12 midday.

The car would certainly not take that long, it would take at most half the time of the bus

Before COVID, for the August 2018 timetable I've got written down that the 3, 31, and 44 were all every 10 minutes and the 26 was every 7.5 minutes. Interestingly I've got written down that the 30 was only every twelve minutes - I thought it would have been every 10?

There was more than that that were that frequent

 

[bonnyrigglad1]

Has anybody noticed since the service change some buses reliability has nosedived multiple times this week I have seen 3 24s in a row. 29 is all over the place as well but has been for a while.

there are 4 way lights at marchmont that are having an effect on the 24 in both directions, as well as the diversion heading to the RIE at Cameron Toll

 

[ScotRail158725]

LIVINGSTON
Route 43: OPVR = about 6. Type = mostly 2017 B5LH/G3.
Route 70: OPVR = about 1. Type = 2017 B5LH/G3.
Route 71: OPVR = about 1. Type = 2017 B5LH/G3.
Route 72: OPVR = about 4. Type = 2017 B5LH/G3, and ex-London 2011 B9/G2.
Route 73PVR = about 2. Type = 2009 B9/G2.
Route 74: OPVR = about 2. Type = 2009 B9/G2.
Route X18: OPVR = about 8. Type = mostly ex-London 2011 B9/G2.
Routes X27 and X28: OPVR = about 11. Type = mostly ex-Motorcoaches 2008 B9/G1.
Route X40: OPVR = about 3. Type = ex-London 2011 B9/G2.
SUM off-peak vehicles = about 38.

Other than the 43, 70 and 71 the allocation is just Geminis with the mostly B5s on the 72 it varies from day to day which batch