Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[ScotRail158725]

This wouldn’t completely replace 841-850, 929-931 & 933-950.

The posts above said East Coast going completely to B5TLs and these would completely cover 937-950

I don't suppose anyone knows and is able to say what the rough milage of the (2010) East Coast B9s and 2011 City B9s is? Might be interesting to compare to the milage the 2009 B9s had before resale.

The 10 plates are around 700-800k and the 11 plate B9s mostly in the 500k range some are still only on 400k

 

[stevenedin]

The posts above said East Coast going completely to B5TLs and these would completely cover 937-950


The 10 plates are around 700-800k and the 11 plate B9s mostly in the 500k range some are still only on 400k

It will be nice for Lothian Country to receive 937-950 and to withdraw 929-931 & 933-935 keeping 936 due to it being in the correct livery but if it also means that 926-928 are withdrawn from Central, I can see 936 being withdrawn too.

I’m not sure if they will keep 841-850 for longer as they seem to have lower mileage and have been refurbished. Plus, they seem to cope well on long distance routes.

 

[ScotRail158725]

It will be nice for Lothian Country to receive 937-950 and to withdraw 929-931 & 933-935 keeping 936 due to it being in the correct livery but if it also means that 926-928 are withdrawn from Central, I can see 936 being withdrawn too.

I’m not sure if they will keep 841-850 for longer as they seem to have lower mileage and have been refurbished. Plus, they seem to cope well on long distance routes.

The priority would be 937-950 they’re highest mileage with a worn out the most, replacing 841-850 when they were heavily refurbished and spent 2 years on part time work is pointless when they still have a few years in them. Its at the point where once the pre 11 plate B9s are replaced they’ll be withdrawn and sold instead of moving them about

 

[CN04NRJ]

The posts above said East Coast going completely to B5TLs and these would completely cover 937-950


The 10 plates are around 700-800k and the 11 plate B9s mostly in the 500k range some are still only on 400k

There's a few of the 300s that are an anomaly, 378 for example is on over 700k

Some of the Airlink XLBs are just approaching 300k now, I hope a replacement for them is due in the next year or two as they're a bit tired for the workload they have.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Some of the Airlink XLBs are just approaching 300k now, I hope a replacement for them is due in the next year or two as they're a bit tired for the workload they have.

Some of them really look like they need a paint now. Strangely some of them look absolutely fine though. The simple livery when new looked superb but over time it’s become rather messy with adverts at the back missing etc. The interiors have held up well though, but again the adverts on the seats I couldn’t say the same for.

 

[Lothiangem22]

I believe the Airlink fleet are due a new allocation in 2025, though likely to be around a year from now.

Still unclear as to what their replacement will be, however, last I heard it would be an electric product next year

 

[LothianLover88]

If the 600s go to LCB, what would replace them? They are very well used already when it comes to the city fleet with most of the busiest city routes such as the 3, 19, 25 and 44?

 

[ScotRail158725]

If the 600s go to LCB, what would replace them? They are very well used already when it comes to the city fleet with most of the busiest city routes such as the 3, 19, 25 and 44?

The new BZLs? Not hard to figure out

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I’m not sure if they will keep 841-850 for longer as they seem to have lower mileage and have been refurbished. Plus, they seem to cope well on long distance routes.

841-850 are leaving before 937-950 - very soon. I believe 937-950 are second in line.

 

[LothianLover88]

The new BZLs? Not hard to figure out

Really? I doubt the already used 300s are gonna do operations on the busy routes for mileage reasons and the 700s are too small for those routes.

Also there's only 50 in delivery. 100 of the MMCs. It is quite hard to make every route work with losing 50 buses which in the grand scale of things is a lot.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Really? I doubt the already used 300s are gonna do operations on the busy routes for mileage reasons and the 700s are too small for those routes.

Also there's only 50 in delivery. 100 of the MMCs. It is quite hard to make every route work with losing 50 buses which in the grand scale of things is a lot.

Not all 98 600s would be cascaded, and the BZLs would be put onto routes like the 24 while the larger vehicles on these routes are moved to the 3, 44, etc..

 

[Nawm8]

Not entirely Lothian related but when did the 141, when under First operations, cease going to Fort Kinnaird?

Also any resources to historical First Dalkeith depot information online would be handy!

 

[stevenedin]

Not entirely Lothian related but when did the 141, when under First operations, cease going to Fort Kinnaird?

Also any resources to historical First Dalkeith depot information online would be handy!

There is some information on this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/first-scotland-east-historic-routes.273190/

 

[Nawm8]

There is some information on this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/first-scotland-east-historic-routes.273190/

Missed that one, should've posted in there.

Thanks!

 

[stevenedin]

Missed that one, should've posted in there.

Thanks!

No worries

 

[ScotRail158725]

Really? I doubt the already used 300s are gonna do operations on the busy routes for mileage reasons and the 700s are too small for those routes.

Also there's only 50 in delivery. 100 of the MMCs. It is quite hard to make every route work with losing 50 buses which in the grand scale of things is a lot.

Its not hard to figure out than all 98 aren’t going to be displaced, if they are it will only be 30-40 most. And i dont mean direct replacements things can move as a result of the BZL to allow for those to be cascaded

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Its not hard to figure out than all 98 aren’t going to be displaced, if they are it will only be 30-40 most. And i dont mean direct replacements things can move as a result of the BZL to allow for those to be cascaded

I’d be surprised if more than 20 went to be honest. Enough to wipe out 841-850 then the rest for enhancements.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I believe the Airlink fleet are due a new allocation in 2025, though likely to be around a year from now.

Still unclear as to what their replacement will be, however, last I heard it would be an electric product next year

MCV BZLs on a 7/8 minute frequency would work, seating capacity would be extremely poor with luggage racks though. Shame an exception can't be made for 12-15 MCV B8Ls just for the Airlink as a final diesel order.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I’d be surprised if more than 20 went to be honest. Enough to wipe out 841-850 then the rest for enhancements.

Aye i reckon so hence why i said 681-698, replaced at central by BZLs and enough to wipe out the older geminis

MCV BZLs on a 7/8 minute frequency would work, seating capacity would be extremely poor with luggage racks though. Shame an exception can't be made for 12-15 MCV B8Ls just for the Airlink as a final diesel order.

Why not?

 

[Lx008]

MCV BZLs on a 7/8 minute frequency would work, seating capacity would be extremely poor with luggage racks though. Shame an exception can't be made for 12-15 MCV B8Ls just for the Airlink as a final diesel order.

Is there any further word on a 3 axle BZL in the works, last time I heard it was a weight issue?

 

[Lothiangem22]

MCV BZLs on a 7/8 minute frequency would work, seating capacity would be extremely poor with luggage racks though. Shame an exception can't be made for 12-15 MCV B8Ls just for the Airlink as a final diesel order.

I think the issue is going to a lower capacity bus at a higher frequency is cost. Although larger vehicles have marginally higher operating costs, a major expense per vehicle is driver, depot space and maintenance.

Hopefully we see something suitable, I’m sure Lothian will be pushing Volvo for the correct criteria

 

[Vectron383]

The other issue with a higher frequency is that it would add more buses onto the very bus-dense city streets in the centre of town.

 

[Scotrail88]

Now up to 711 - are there any more in prep for service?

 

[Lothiangem22]

Now up to 711 - are there any more in prep for service?

None currently at Seafield, though several expected soon. Possibly as early as next week for prep

 

[Resuwen]

Must be a way to get some Sandy Enviro 500 EVs for Airlink, surely?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Must be a way to get some Sandy Enviro 500 EVs for Airlink, surely?

If it’s a non Volvo product, it has little to no chance of happening.

 

[edinbusnerd]

If it's a non Volvo product, it has little to no chance of happening.

Is there a particular reason for this? Is Lothian avoiding Dennis/Wright intentionally?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Is there a particular reason for this? Is Lothian avoiding Dennis/Wright intentionally?

Almost all of the fleet is Volvo’s. The exceptions being 284-289 which are highly unlikely to ever return, because it’s not economical and there were separate issues from when Wrightbus went bust. 291-294 are the others and these were part of a funding package from Scottish Power.

So if you’ve got close to 1,000 Volvo vehicles, why move away from them?

 

[scosutsut]

Is there a particular reason for this? Is Lothian avoiding Dennis/Wright intentionally?

They have a long standing, successful relationship with Volvo that started at the Leyland takeover with batches of Volvo Olympians and Volvo became the defacto chassis choice consistently since the 2005 B7TL/Wright order.

The relationship with Wrights soured in approximately 2017/8 and whilst I don't have insider insight the most commonly cited factors are the issues with the Streetair EVs and lack of warranty support. The build quality on the 2017/8 intakes of Wright bodied B5TLs and B8Rs is also referenced too as it was shocking.

Wrights has essentially changed hands since then but the Wright Electroliner demonstrator had a torrid time when it was at Lothian and that would on the face of it appeared to only further fuelled the pessimism within Lothian that Wrights cannot be trusted again.

With the exception of 291-4 which as mentioned before were at least part funded by Scottish Power they haven't bought an ADL integral since the last of the 2004 Trident/Presidents - I don't know why, they just fell out of favour.

They appeared to throw ADL a bone with the B8L/XLB and B5TL/MMC batches but both were one offs. ADL have a growing reputation for not wanting to body other companies chassis' - so it's hard to know if it's Lothian not ordering them or ADL not being prepared to make them?

Volvo has set up the relationship with MCV so that problem has to a degree gone away as Lothian has gone with that for two big orders now (B8Rs and the BZLs)

Lothians preference appears to be "Volvo unless it can't be" and that's presumably based on having a good overall ownership experience with a massive fleet of them.

 

[DunsBus]

Much the same reason as the relationship with Dennis/Transbus soured in 2004 when Transbus went to the wall. A batch of Tridents was in process of delivery at the time and thus came without warranties. Lothian attempted to negotiate a reduced price for the batch - the then MD Neil Renilson quite rightly saying that you wouldn't pay full price for an ex-list washing machine if it had no warranty - but, to the best of my knowledge, was unsuccessful in doing so.

Hence, when Alexander Dennis (ADL) arose from the ashes of Transbus, Lothian steered well clear.