Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Falkirk and Linlithgow would lose their connection to Edinburgh city centre if that was the case.

Not a disaster by any means. Plenty of trains cover that, which are night and day in terms of speed compared to the X38.

I’ll leave my full suggestion to another thread as to what could happen, as it’s McGill’s.

 

[scosutsut]

This is not a knee jerk response, this is a new bus war, for the whole of 2024 we have been told there is limited resources. Once some have been freed up, did Lothian start to fix their leaky roof? no they wanted to build a conservatory.

One should remember that the 72/73/74 only exist at all because Lothian stepped in when McGills stopped running those services to put all their resources into competing with Lothian on already served corridors elsewhere, so making Lothian out to be the bad guy here does require quite a bit of selective short term memory.

It's fine to feel the 72/73/74 need and deserve improvement, but it's for the operator to decide what to prioritise and they've chosen the new route here.

Commercially, I can understand why this would make sense - as the new route would be viewed as likely to be more profitable, allowing the operation to then invest more, later, into more marginal or riskier routes (if this is indeed what the 72/73/74 are considered as the X19 decision appears to suggest.)

 

[overthewater]

One should remember that the 72/73/74 only exist at all because Lothian stepped in when McGills stopped running those services to put all their resources into competing with Lothian on already served corridors elsewhere, so making Lothian out to be the bad guy here does require quite a bit of selective short term memory.

It's fine to feel the 72/73/74 need and deserve improvement, but it's for the operator to decide what to prioritise and they've chosen the new route here.

Commercially, I can understand why this would make sense - as those routes would likely be more profitable, allowing the operation to then invest more, later, into more marginal or riskier routes (if this is indeed what the 72/73/74 are considered as the X19 decision appears to suggest.)

72 was already in place before McGill left, and lets not forget the 73 is No280 which Lothian had already withdrawn. And lets not forgot who was it that enticed the drivers away with higher wages. Back in the day the routes weren't risky. People in Winchburgh might look to other parts of the network and think could it happen again?

Edit:
Lothian need to sort out one mess before starting having adventures elsewhere. If they come out today and said we making some improvements to 72 and 73 I would happily praise them to the hill.

 

[Lothiangem22]

445 is now green in Lothian country colours and 3 mcv’s just been delivered to seafield.

 

[Bus9120UK]

445 is now green in Lothian country colours and 3 mcv’s just been delivered to seafield.

445 was confirmed last week, although adding onto this, 446 is now in the paint booth at Seafield receiving the same treatment.

 

[Stan Drews]

One should remember that the 72/73/74 only exist at all because Lothian stepped in when McGills stopped running those services to put all their resources into competing with Lothian on already served corridors elsewhere, so making Lothian out to be the bad guy here does require quite a bit of selective short term memory.

It's fine to feel the 72/73/74 need and deserve improvement, but it's for the operator to decide what to prioritise and they've chosen the new route here.

Commercially, I can understand why this would make sense - as the new route would be viewed as likely to be more profitable, allowing the operation to then invest more, later, into more marginal or riskier routes (if this is indeed what the 72/73/74 are considered as the X19 decision appears to suggest.)

I think your own memory is being very selective if you’ve completely forgotten that Lothian started a bus war with First in West Lothian which effectively turned the local depot into one making quite significant losses. Lothian too were losing money, hence the many new services they withdrew. McGill’s subsequently acquired the First business and after a year of heavy losses decided enough was enough and withdrew their services. Lothian have had the area to themselves since then and services across the area are probably the worst that they’ve ever been.
Now they have chosen to compete on the corridor through West Lothian that Midland Bluebird operate along with the well established X38.
I’m not sure anyone needs to be classed as the bad guy, although people obviously have there favourites.

 

[Resuwen]

Interesting that Warrington have gone for glazed staircases on their BZLs

 

[VioletEclipse]

Interesting that Warrington have gone for glazed staircases on their BZLs

It seems to be one of a number of things that were introduced during the Richard Hall era and have since stopped being specced in new buses, along with interior spot lighting, depot codes and exit doors.

 

[LothianLover88]

Interesting that Warrington have gone for glazed staircases on their BZLs

Good. I like that. I don't know why Lothian dumped them despite 997 (700e) having it.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Good. I like that. I don't know why Lothian dumped them despite 997 (700e) having it.

Could be an requirement with global regarding a certain amount if buses having T-Adverts?

 

[LKF747R]

Since Lothian Buses has issued its Q4 stock pdf with Eve Coaches in the listing I wish to share my researches. I have pulled together from various sources, including Bus lists on the web and flicker text descriptions, information under the following headings for the Eve Department:

F/no. Reg. No Dep. Chassis type Chassis no. Layout Seating Liv. R/B F/no. Notes

9004 SN18 CVW EVE Volvo B11R(T) YV3T2U822JA189638 Plaxton 'Panther' HP49/04 C61FLt LMC 9004 EC, LMC
9005 SN18 CVX EVE Volvo B11R(T) YV3T2U824JA189639 Plaxton 'Panther' HP49/05 C61FLt LMC 9005 EC, LMC
9102 SC68 LMC EVE Mercedes-Benz Sprinter 514CDi WDB9066572P559742 Mercedes-Benz 'Sprinter' C16F LMC 9102 EC, LMC

9208 803 DYE EVE Volvo B8R YV3T7U527KA195152 Plaxton 'Leopard' JL38/08 C49DL LMC 9208 EC,LCB,LMC x SB19 GKO.

E19 EV10 EVE EVE Mercedes-Benz Sprinter 514CDi WDB9066572S740479 Mercedes-Benz 'Sprinter' C22F EC EVE19 EC xRX13CJV

E20 BT15 KLF EVE Mercedes-Benz Sprinter City 45 WDB9066572S998887 Mercedes-Benz 'Sprinter' C17F EC EVE20 EC was with Houston, Lockerbie

E21 BF67 WFU EVE Mercedes-Benz Sprinter City 45 WDB9066572S995728 Mercedes-Benz 'Sprinter' C19F EC EVE21 EC was with Parks of Hamilton

E22 BV66 GYH EVE Mercedes-Benz Sprinter City 45 WDB9066572S998892 Mercedes-Benz 'Sprinter' C19F EC EVE22 EC

E23 YX70 OHG EVE AD "Enviro" E20D SFDAL1ELRALGY17899 Alexander 'Enviro 200' K258/1 B34F EC EVE23 EC
E24 YX70 OHH EVE AD "Enviro" E20D SFDAL1ELRALGY17914 Alexander 'Enviro 200' K258/2 B34F EC EVE24 EC
E25 T3 EVE EVE Oe M810SL SABTN3AF0BL193779 Optare Solo Oe 193779 B24F EC EVE25 EC xYJ11OHV
E26 YX70 OHF EVE AD "Enviro" E20D SFD9L1ELRALGY17894 Alexander 'Enviro 200' K257/1 B34F EC EVE26 EC
E27 YD63 VEP EVE Oe M970SL SABTN3AF0ES290813 Optare Solo Oe 290813 B34F EC EVE27 EC
E29 SN22 AZZ EVE Io 70C18 ZCFC670D40D608980 Iveco Rosero B29F EC EVE29 EC
E32 BX17 XBR EVE Io 70C18 ZCFC270D40D574130 Iveco FER C33F EC EVE32 EC formerly Whitegate Travel, Anderton

E33 BF70 MBO EVE Io 70C18 ZCFC670D40D5268870 Iveco FER C33F EC EVE33 EC
E35 YJ16 EPC NB Temsa MD9 NLTAPLJ6R01000002 Optare Temsa OP00116 C34Ft LMC EVE35 EC
E38 YN17 CEV EVE Otokar Navigo T NLRTMF10HA020462 Otokar C37F EC EVE38 EC
E39 V5 EVE EVE DAF/Irizar i6s VS916AD00J1016148 Irizar 111280 C39Ft EC EVE39 EC xG1WSA Formerly Whites of St Albans

E41 Y10 EVE EVE Volvo B7R YV3R6R626EA164245 Sunsundegui Sideral B-6044 C41F EC EVE41 EC xBN14VZY Formerly PJ Ellis of Acton

E42 K10 EVE EVE Volvo B8R YV3T7U526FA171592 Sunsundegui Sideral B-6034 C39Ft EC EVE42 EC x SD15UWM Formerly McNeil of Ratho

E51 BC15 RUW EVE Mercedes-Benz 'Tourismo' WEB63241523000528 Mercedes-Benz 'Tourismo' C51Ft EC EVE51 EC Formerly Evobus of Coventry

E52 BU18 YTB EVE Mercedes-Benz 'Tourismo' WEB41055523001302 Mercedes-Benz 'Tourismo' C48Ft EC EVE52 EC Formerly Shearings Group

E53 YX66 WOM EVE Volvo B8R YV3T7U520HA182526 Plaxton 'Panther' GP16/01 C53Ft EC EVE53 EC Formerly Stevenson of Evenwold

E58 BD18 TNE EVE Mercedes-Benz 'Tourismo' WEB41055523001348 Mercedes-Benz 'Tourismo' C51Ft EC EVE58 EC Formerly Evobus of Coventry

E59 BL16 FZH EVE Mercedes-Benz 'Tourismo' WEB63247523000751 Mercedes-Benz 'Tourismo' C59Ft EC EVE59 EC
E60 EV08 EVE EVE Volvo B9R YV3S5P724EA168740 Plaxton 'Panther' EL10/01 C59F EC EVE60 EC xSG64UKY Formerly Gibson Direct of Renfrew

E72 OO06EVE EVE Setra S416GT-HD WKK63213423114281 Kassborher C53F EC EVE72 EC xBD62LPY DJ Coaches of Grvesend

E74 CA11 EVE EVE Volvo B9R YV3S5P721BA149381 Plaxton 'Panther' Pn1112.8SAZ8905 C61F EC EVE74 EC
E75 WE60 EVE EVE Volvo B9R YV3S5P72XBA149380 Plaxton 'Panther' Pn1112.8SAZ8904 C61F EC EVE75 EC

E100 OO56EVE EVE Volvo B9TL YV3S4J9259A133482 Optare Olympus Oe C71601 CH61/39F EC EVE100 EC xSC09ALL, xY10EVE & xSO09FJY

NB Eve fleet numbers are in both old style Exx and later in as on pdf as EVExx. Also the little x stands for former before any previous registration carried which is shown in Caps.

 

[stevenedin]

I thought that the tracker system was upgraded recently and completed? There are buses that are showing timetable times on the app and the only way you know it’s still coming is if you look on bus times. It shows but with no route number. Does anyone know what’s going on? I’ve seen it with various routes and buses.

 

[DunsBus]

Lothian won't go to Bo'ness wether it used to be part of the Lothian Region or not it's in Falkirk at present and likely to stay in that region for the foreseeable

Bo'ness was never in Lothian Region in any case. It was historically in West Lothian, being transferred to the Falkirk council area in 1975, the same year that Lothian Region came into being.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I thought that the tracker system was upgraded recently and completed? There are buses that are showing timetable times on the app and the only way you know it’s still coming is if you look on bus times. It shows but with no route number. Does anyone know what’s going on? I’ve seen it with various routes and buses.

Control still needs to manually sign buses into the tracking system. If its not tracking correctly it means its been missed for whatever reason.

 

[stevenedin]

Control still needs to manually sign buses into the tracking system. If it’s not tracking correctly it means it’s been missed for whatever reason.

Thanks. Is this permanent or is it just until the new system is operational?

 

[Busman757]

I believe 18 vehicles have been attacked tonight.

 

[LothianLover88]

I believe 18 vehicles have been attacked tonight.

Any of them damaged?

 

[Busman757]

Any of them damaged?

Usual windows etc

 

[ScotRail158725]

Any of them damaged?

Yes 18 off the road with damage, 499 and 84? were at the Fort with smashed windows. Niddrie was shut off by the police due to the usual antics from the young team there with fireworks and rocks/bricks etc…

 

[Busman757]

Yes 18 off the road with damage, 499 and 84? were at the Fort with smashed windows. Niddrie was shut off by the police due to the usual antics from the young team there with fireworks and rocks/bricks etc…

Started off in the Gilmerton/Mordun area then Niddrie then the 21’s were diverted away from Broomhouse.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

First of the next lot of BZL’s are tracking. Looks possible that 712-719 are all delivered. Unsure if this will go further yet. Hopefully this should see the 24 switched to full electric operation once they enter service.

 

[Lx008]

Started off in the Gilmerton/Mordun area then Niddrie then the 21’s were diverted away from Broomhouse.

Was quite shocked at how brazen they where, was waiting at the kings building stop for the 9 with around 20 other when 4 youths ran up and smashed 3 windows on a BZL before running off in the direction of Cameron toll.

Why are people like this? And why aren’t the penalties harsher, if something like this was done where I’m from in Austria, you would find yourself In prison for a few months, yet here it’s only a fine

 

[percycranky]

First of the next lot of BZL’s are tracking. Looks possible that 712-719 are all delivered. Unsure if this will go further yet. Hopefully this should see the 24 switched to full electric operation once they enter service.

Yeah, this is likely. Bustimes shows 713e, 718e and 719e as tracking, so assuming that the buses are sequentially numbered, 712e and 714e-717e should enter service soon.

Was quite shocked at how brazen they where, was waiting at the kings building stop for the 9 with around 20 other when 4 youths ran up and smashed 3 windows on a BZL before running off in the direction of Cameron toll.

Why are people like this? And why aren’t the penalties harsher, if something like this was done where I’m from in Austria, you would find yourself In prison for a few months, yet here it’s only a fine

I think the BZL affected was 704e, which stopped operating around 8:40 p.m., but 702e was taken off at a similar time (8:30 p.m.), and I don't have any evidence either way.

I believe 18 vehicles have been attacked tonight.

Does anyone know specifically which ones have been affected?

 

[stevenedin]

That’s the tracker down again on the app. This tracker is awful compared to the new one.

 

[Bus9120UK]

That’s the tracker down again on the app. This tracker is awful compared to the new one.

This is an issue also related to the system in place with manual input from control. It seems to fail once every few weeks.
The bus stop screens should work as normal with the data from the AVLs.

 

[Numpt33]

Was quite shocked at how brazen they where, was waiting at the kings building stop for the 9 with around 20 other when 4 youths ran up and smashed 3 windows on a BZL before running off in the direction of Cameron toll.

Why are people like this? And why aren’t the penalties harsher, if something like this was done where I’m from in Austria, you would find yourself In prison for a few months, yet here it’s only a fine

Does Australia not have luvvies?

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Does Australia not have luvvies?

or Austria?

 

[LothianLover88]

700e in operation once again. Glad to see the "better" BZL back.

First of the next lot of BZL’s are tracking. Looks possible that 712-719 are all delivered. Unsure if this will go further yet. Hopefully this should see the 24 switched to full electric operation once they enter service.

Bustimes shows 713e, 718e and 719e at Marine.

 

[ScotRail158725]

700e in operation once again. Glad to see the "better" BZL back.

Better, how?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Bustimes shows 713e, 718e and 719e at Marine.

Seafield, actually.