Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[jb66]

W

I wonder why they didn't consider running the X19 via Old Liston Road, giving them a direct city link rather than walking, realistically would it take away that many minutes from the journey?

It takes ages citybound during busy times and this service must be quicker than the x38 to compete

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Makes sense, also noticed that word gets out quickly about these changes as the Facebook post is flooded with complaints about the N28 changes

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Makes sense, also noticed that word gets out quickly about these changes as the Facebook post is flooded with complaints about the N28 changes

Apart from that, I’m shocked it’s not been renumbered to N27 to avoid confusion.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Makes sense, also noticed that word gets out quickly about these changes as the Facebook post is flooded with complaints about the N28 changes

Complaints about giving Calderwood a service? Nothing surprises me, yes it will take longer but it’s positive in my opinion!

 

[muffy]

Makes sense, also noticed that word gets out quickly about these changes as the Facebook post is flooded with complaints about the N28 changes

More the South End East Calder residents that don't use the N28 annoyed that Calderwood has yet another bus service without realising they have also lost the last X28 to Edinburgh along with the last X27 Edinburgh to Deans service also getting withdrawn.

 

[BobbyBKinross]

Have Lothian ever publicly announced why they continue to stick with single door boarding. Double Door buses would speed up boarding & alighting (As proven by the E400XLB's), and help reduce journey times, which is handy when you consider how many routes & buses run late due to temporary traffic management & bottlenecks at Picardy Place/other bottleneck junctions.

 

[Lothiangem22]

Have Lothian ever publicly announced why they continue to stick with single door boarding. Double Door buses would speed up boarding & alighting (As proven by the E400XLB's), and help reduce journey times, which is handy when you consider how many routes & buses run late due to temporary traffic management & bottlenecks at Picardy Place/other bottleneck junctions.

I think the downside is that you effectively get less seats and with the double accessible space it may be difficult to configure downstairs into a useable space. Look at the double door London buses… the available seating downstairs is poor.

The tri axles were only equipped with a second door as there was no option for an emergency exit towards the rear of the vehicle and they require a secondary door for evacuation.

 

[Sussexscot]

I suppose, this is a risk that Lothian are willing to take, and I guesd the residents of Kirkliston will be happy to have a Lothian service direct to the city centre once again after 5 whole years, let's hope this time it actually pays off, If I was Lothian I would be getting a roadshow in Kirkliston and Winchburgh to advertise the service and it's benefits over the X38.

If things go well.. could we see them extend it via to M9 to Linlithgow?

I do not see the X19 as a direct competitor to McGill's X38, more as a new service for a large new housing development with more houses to come. By going in now, it reduces the likelihood of McGill bringing in a competing service, at least for a few months. Yes, there may be an opportunity to extend the X19 to Linlithgow Bridge via the M9 and the Springfield estate. The journey times from Linlithgow Cross would be similar but it would be the Springfield estate that would be the target.

If Lothian augmented their Livingstone services now rather than introduce the X19, the opportunity to expand into Winchburgh could be lost. Lothian must do something very soon about the Livingstone services so that they do not p*** **f their existing local passengers.

 

[stevenedin]

398 is on the 34 for some reason.

 

[jb66]

You don't see the x19, a bus that runs the exact same route as the x38 from winchburgh to edinburgh as competition?

I do not see the X19 as a direct competitor to McGill's X38, more as a new service for a large new housing development with more houses to come. By going in now, it reduces the likelihood of McGill bringing in a competing service, at least for a few months. Yes, there may be an opportunity to extend the X19 to Linlithgow Bridge via the M9 and the Springfield estate. The journey times from Linlithgow Cross would be similar but it would be the Springfield estate that would be the target.

If Lothian augmented their Livingstone services now rather than introduce the X19, the opportunity to expand into Winchburgh could be lost. Lothian must do something very soon about the Livingstone services so that they do not p*** **f their existing local passengers.

 

[stevenedin]

You don't see the x19, a bus that runs the exact same route as the x38 from winchburgh to edinburgh as competition?

It only runs the same route from Winchburgh Main Street. The X38 comes from Falkirk. That’s just like saying that the 26, 31 & 100 are competition. Some corridors have buses which run along the same routes. The X19 is clearly to serve Winchburgh. It’s better to have more bus connections than less and with all of the new houses being built, people will start to use the bus. You only have to look at Calderwood and how successful that has become for the X27 & X40 there and now the new N28.

If usage is really good, they could possibly extend the X19 to Bo’Ness in Falkirk although that is just outside Edinburgh and the Lothians area.

 

[Siemens Trains]

If usage is really good, they could possibly extend the X19 to Bo’Ness

Do you mean via Philpstoun on the B8046? This is a very rural and thinly populated route. Linking Bo'ness and Edinburgh has never been very successful anyway as there's little market these days.
They can't run via Linlithgow due to the low bridges. In fact I believe being able to run double deckers is the main reason for introducing the X19. It's more to do with basic capacity rather than competition. The idea may be to ensure those who rely on the X38 are able to find room on board. McGill's have clearly struggled to adequately resource this route for a while and they're still not up to providing a decent service.

 

[EdinRH]

It only runs the same route from Winchburgh Main Street. The X38 comes from Falkirk. That’s just like saying that the 26, 31 & 100 are competition. Some corridors have buses which run along the same routes. The X19 is clearly to serve Winchburgh. It’s better to have more bus connections than less and with all of the new houses being built, people will start to use the bus. You only have to look at Calderwood and how successful that has become for the X27 & X40 there and now the new N28.

If usage is really good, they could possibly extend the X19 to Bo’Ness in Falkirk although that is just outside Edinburgh and the Lothians area.

Bo'ness is indeed in the Falkirk council area under present day municipal boundaries. However, historically it was in West Lothian and its postcode begins with EH.

Therefore, a Lothian service to Bo'ness would not be a totally ridiculous idea.

 

[SoloSR334022]

Bo'ness is indeed in the Falkirk council area under present day municipal boundaries. However, historically it was in West Lothian and its postcode begins with EH.

Therefore, a Lothian service to Bo'ness would not be a totally ridiculous idea.

Yeah, this could work although running up St. Ninians Rd in Linlithgow would be in competition with McGill's F45 service and Prentice Westwoods F49 service (which runs via Blackness) and together they run hourly, so unless there were to be 4bph between Linlithgow and Bo'ness it would have to be a council contract. And that's if the X19 even get extended to Linlitgow via the M9 in first place...

 

[ScotRail158725]

It only runs the same route from Winchburgh Main Street. The X38 comes from Falkirk.

A whole 2 stops on an hour long route? Thats a stupid argument

That’s just like saying that the 26, 31 & 100 are competition.

An even more laughable comparison when those are also Lothian routes, you cannot compete with yourself

Some corridors have buses which run along the same routes. The X19 is clearly to serve Winchburgh. It’s better to have more bus connections than less and with all of the new houses being built, people will start to use the bus.

Like Calderwood the majority of people in these new estates have cars and wont require 4 buses an hour

 

[InOban]

But if they need to travel into Central Edinburgh they would be daft to drive.

 

[Sussexscot]

Yeah, this could work although running up St. Ninians Rd in Linlithgow would be in competition with McGill's F45 service and Prentice Westwoods F49 service (which runs via Blackness) and together they run hourly, so unless there were to be 4bph between Linlithgow and Bo'ness it would have to be a council contract. And that's if the X19 even get extended to Linlitgow via the M9 in first place...

As was said in an earlier post, running along Main Street in Winchburgh is not really the main point of the X19. The same issue would be if, and it is a big if, the X19 extended via the M9 to Linlithgow it is not really competing with the F45 and F49. The point of the X19 would be to carry people from the Springfield estate to Winchburgh and points east thereof. Linlithgow Bridge is the most suitable place around to have the terminus and provide a suitable spot for the Driver to take his/her break.

 

[stevenedin]

A whole 2 stops on an hour long route? Thats a stupid argument

An even more laughable comparison when those are also Lothian routes, you cannot compete with yourself

Like Calderwood the majority of people in these new estates have cars and wont require 4 buses an hour

The whole point is to get people out of cars and making it easier so that they can just jump on a bus and chill instead of worrying about parking.

I just noticed 365 on a 36 today.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Makes sense, also noticed that word gets out quickly about these changes as the Facebook post is flooded with complaints about the N28 changes

It’s now confirmed that the N28 will be serving both Calderwood and Langton Road on the same service change page. Not sure if this was planned or if is a late change following the overwhelmingly negative feedback.

 

[LiviCrazy]

It’s now confirmed that the N28 will be serving both Calderwood and Langton Road on the same service change page. Not sure if this was planned or if is a late change following the overwhelmingly negative feedback.

Not sure why they aren’t going down via the new junction from Kirknewton? Given First served that road regularly back a number of years ago when the Kirknewton level crossing was being replaced it is definitely able to take a bus. It could also surely have done a quicker route and compromised a little and not done the whole Calderwood route (maybe just circuit round the mobility hub and back onto A71). That route seems stupidly long.

 

[InOban]

Has the additional BZL reported on Friday on the M6 reached Seafield? And were there more than one?

 

[Vectron383]

In total I saw 3 buses Northbound on the M6, 1 was by itself and the other 2 were in convoy. Sorry for not clarifying, been a busy few days

 

[SoloSR334022]

As was said in an earlier post, running along Main Street in Winchburgh is not really the main point of the X19. The same issue would be if, and it is a big if, the X19 extended via the M9 to Linlithgow it is not really competing with the F45 and F49. The point of the X19 would be to carry people from the Springfield estate to Winchburgh and points east thereof. Linlithgow Bridge is the most suitable place around to have the terminus and provide a suitable spot for the Driver to take his/her break.

I am on about a possible extension to Bo'ness via Linlithgow not about 'competing' services between Springfield Estate and Linlithgow, more so the fact that 4bph (buses per hour) between Bo'ness and Linlithgow would be too many for the demand the routes has.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

I am on about a possible extension to Bo'ness via Linlithgow not about 'competing' services between Springfield Estate and Linlithgow, more so the fact that 4bph (buses per hour) between Bo'ness and Linlithgow would be too many for the demand the routes has.

Lothian won't go to Bo'ness wether it used to be part of the Lothian Region or not it's in Falkirk at present and likely to stay in that region for the foreseeable

 

[318266]

Lothian won't go to Bo'ness wether it used to be part of the Lothian Region or not it's in Falkirk at present and likely to stay in that region for the foreseeable

In addition, there isn't much of a need for it not already covered by Citylink's 909.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Lothian won't go to Bo'ness wether it used to be part of the Lothian Region or not it's in Falkirk at present and likely to stay in that region for the foreseeable

Yes, Bo'ness is more trouble than it's worth. The Edinburgh connection was a basket case for decades.
Other than a knee jerk response thinking this is part of a bus war, I find it hard to see why people are negative on the X19. To me, running double deckers from the city centre and terminating at Winchburgh makes good sense given the demand growth on this corridor. Generally these passengers are best kept away from the X38 and in the fullness of time maybe the X38 will bypass most of Winchburgh, Kirkliston and Ratho Station.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Generally these passengers are best kept away from the X38 and in the fullness of time maybe the X38 will bypass most of Winchburgh, Kirkliston and Ratho Station.

You’d think if it ever did come to that, they’d simply cut it back.

 

[stevenedin]

You’d think if it ever did come to that, they’d simply cut it back.

Falkirk and Linlithgow would lose their connection to Edinburgh city centre if that was the case.

 

[overthewater]

Other than a knee jerk response thinking this is part of a bus war, I find it hard to see why people are negative on the X19. To me, running double deckers from the city centre and terminating at Winchburgh makes good sense given the demand growth on this corridor. Generally these passengers are best kept away from the X38 and in the fullness of time maybe the X38 will bypass most of Winchburgh, Kirkliston and Ratho Station.

This is not a knee jerk response, this is a new bus war, for the whole of 2024 we have been told there is limited resources. Once some have been freed up, did Lothian start to fix their leaky roof? no they wanted to build a conservatory.

You’d think if it ever did come to that, they’d simply cut it back.

I think there more chance at first, the X38 will be re-routed away from Kirkliston and they would just operate into Winchburgh and then on the M9 to Newbridge.

 

[InOban]

Falkirk and Linlithgow would lose their connection to Edinburgh city centre if that was the case.

There are 4 trains an hour, which is why bus services have struggled.