Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Bus9120UK]

Indeed it is. Happens constantly.

44 was genuinely on the 124. It replaced 58 which replaced 946.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

44 was genuinely on the 124. It replaced 58 which replaced 946.

I was just going off the reason quoted. Right enough it did do the last one.

 

[Bus9120UK]

715 has returned to Central from Ferrymill and 725 has moved to Central from Seafield.

 

[Porty]

There have been various comments about hilly routes and electric buses not being suitable. I wonder if these commentators actually have any knowledge of EV operation, as it’s my understanding (and experience) that coming down hills is actually very useful on EVs as it puts power back into the batteries. It is actually lengthy flat sections of continual running that has the greatest negative impact on battery charge, hence they aren’t ideal on lots of motorway work.

Ember run entirely electric coaches. Edinburgh to Dundee and Aberdeen. Also Glasgow. Lots of fast running on motorways. Different battery capacities to city buses?

 

[LothianLover88]

722 out today on the 24. I believe it was also out yesterday on the 9? No real 'structure' to the orders now I suppose as the first two batches came in tens and I believe some of the 730s & 740s (maybe 2/3) have arrived.

 

[R Scandle]

496-510 are a wreck internally and mechanically aswell, the amount of times ive seen or been on one thats chucked it is incredible

How many times?

 

[ScotRail158725]

How many times?

more than enough to count anyway

 

[Graeme Duncan]

According to the Lothian Buses tracker 715 is out on service 9.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

According to the Lothian Buses tracker 715 is out on service 9.

It is. 716 and 725 also at Central and likely to head out in the next few days.

 

[FP transport v]

Looks like 510 made it out into service with East Coast today for the first time on the 124 although it didn't even last one full rounder

 

[Blindtraveler]

If this is a foretaste of things to come, East coast are going to be absolutely delighted

 

[Bus9120UK]

My personal interpretation is that it was not meant to go out yet but East Coast buses needed a bus out so 510 was brought from Marine and put on the road. 940 became available and is now out instead.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

If this is a foretaste of things to come, East coast are going to be absolutely delighted

Considering about 95% of East Coast Buses drivers like the B5s better, makes no sense.

I am aware opinions may differ. I’m talking about the vast array of drivers I know.

 

[Lothianbus703]

Considering about 95% of East Coast Buses drivers like the B5s better, makes no sense.

I am aware opinions may differ. I’m talking about the vast array of drivers I know.

Where is the 95% statistic from?

 

[Lx008]

Why are you all such pedants, when someone says 95% it doesn’t mean they asked every single driver and publishes a study on it, mostly it means I talked to 10-20 people and almost all said they preferred the B5

 

[alexf380]

Looks like 510 made it out into service with East Coast today for the first time on the 124 although it didn't even last one full rounder

My personal interpretation is that it was not meant to go out yet but East Coast buses needed a bus out so 510 was brought from Marine and put on the road. 940 became available and is now out instead.

Yes I think we may have been struggling a bit this morning. Next week is also a schools off week so there are generally less spare buses at Musselburgh. The board it was put on finishes at North Berwick and Marine wanted it back for a check so had to be swapped early rather than finish the duty.

 

[Lothianbus703]

Why are you all such pedants, when someone says 95% it doesn’t mean they asked every single driver and publishes a study on it, mostly it means I talked to 10-20 people and almost all said they preferred the B5

Thanks for the enlightenment, I was actually under the impression he asked every driver at East Coast about this and published the study.

 

[cam22]

Anyone think the 43 will move to being with Lothian city at some point instead of country? With the £2 fare now it’s a bit of an anomaly.

 

[stevenedin]

Anyone think the 43 will move to being with Lothian city at some point instead of country? With the £2 fare now it’s a bit of an anomaly.

It makes sense to move the 43, 70 and 71 to Lothian as they all don't leave Edinburgh at all but whether or not they have the availability or buses or staff at Central/Longstone is another story andthey can pay Lothian Country drivers less than Lothian Buses drivers so I can't see the incentive to change this.

 

[cam22]

It makes sense to move the 43, 70 and 71 to Lothian as they all don't leave Edinburgh at all but whether or not they have the availability or buses or staff at Central/Longstone is another story andthey can pay Lothian Country drivers less than Lothian Buses drivers so I can't see the incentive to change this.

Where does the 43 operate from just now? I realise the drivers are paid different too so might be a hassle to change. As you say tho it doesn’t leave Edinburgh and has £2 fare so should really be a city bus.

 

[stevenedin]

Where does the 43 operate from just now? I realise the drivers are paid different too so might be a hassle to change. As you say tho it doesn’t leave Edinburgh and has £2 fare so should really be a city bus.

The 43 operates from Livingston depot.

 

[buslad1988]

It makes sense to move the 43, 70 and 71 to Lothian as they all don't leave Edinburgh at all but whether or not they have the availability or buses or staff at Central/Longstone is another story andthey can pay Lothian Country drivers less than Lothian Buses drivers so I can't see the incentive to change this.

Where does the 43 operate from just now? I realise the drivers are paid different too so might be a hassle to change. As you say tho it doesn’t leave Edinburgh and has £2 fare so should really be a city bus.

It’s not so much Lothian having an incentive or hassle to change the 43 etc to Central from Country because of the difference in driver wages - it’s more the fact the difference in driver wages factors in to the cost of running the route and can make the difference between it breaking even or running at a loss.

I’m sure people living on the 43 would much rather keep the £2 fare and it cost less for Lothian to run than have it run by Central, thus making it unprofitable and unsustainable in its current form.

At the end of the day the only difference is madder or green.

 

[EdinRH]

Anyone think the 43 will move to being with Lothian city at some point instead of country? With the £2 fare now it’s a bit of an anomaly.

Wasn't there a time a few years back when the 43 was operated by green buses but showing Lothian Buses as the registered owner rather than Lothian Country and was registered with the authorities as a main Lothian Buses service? During this time a madder bus was occasionally used on the 43 without showing "On hire to Lothian Country" on the windscreen.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Considering about 95% of East Coast Buses drivers like the B5s better, makes no sense.

I am aware opinions may differ. I’m talking about the vast array of drivers I know.

It doesn’t matter if they like B5s better they’ll like a bus that that worke over one that doesnt work (as stated this isnt the case here but it inevitably will be unless they get some proper work done)

 

[computerSaysNo]

Considering about 95% of East Coast Buses drivers like the B5s better, makes no sense.

I am aware opinions may differ. I’m talking about the vast array of drivers I know.

Out of interest, do you know why they prefer the B5s?
I had assumed that opinions would be fairly evenly split as in some prefer the B5/Gemini 3s as they're a bit newer, and some prefer the B9/Gemini 2s as they're a bit more powerful.

Yes I think we may have been struggling a bit this morning. Next week is also a schools off week so there are generally less spare buses at Musselburgh. The board it was put on finishes at North Berwick and Marine wanted it back for a check so had to be swapped early rather than finish the duty.

Schools off as in school buses are not operating? Wouldn't this mean more buses available in the garage?

It doesn’t matter if they like B5s better they’ll like a bus that that worke over one that doesnt work (as stated this isnt the case here but it inevitably will be unless they get some proper work done)

Sorry, I realize this is going to be automerged but I've just had a thought. I've noticed that at least one of the 426-437 batch used on the 22 sounds significant different to the usual B5/Gemini 3 sound. It sounds much smoother in the mid pitch range and there is a gentle high pitch note which increases in pitch as road speed or engine speed increases. I was wondering if something has been changed on these engines as a trial to see if performance (presumably mechanical availability) can be improved?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Sorry, I realize this is going to be automerged but I've just had a thought. I've noticed that at least one of the 426-437 batch used on the 22 sounds significant different to the usual B5/Gemini 3 sound. It sounds much smoother in the mid pitch range and there is a gentle high pitch note which increases in pitch as road speed or engine speed increases. I was wondering if something has been changed on these engines as a trial to see if performance (presumably mechanical availability) can be improved?

They’re just knackered, that batch do not sound healthy at all and haven’t for years

 

[mb88]

It makes sense to move the 43, 70 and 71 to Lothian as they all don't leave Edinburgh at all but whether or not they have the availability or buses or staff at Central/Longstone is another story andthey can pay Lothian Country drivers less than Lothian Buses drivers so I can't see the incentive to change this.

Yes Lothian country drivers are on a lower hourly rate but you have to also factor in that running it from Livingston means lengthy 30 minute drives in a shuttle van each way for every changeover at Queensferry. This means that, apart from very early mornings and late at night, the timings mean that drivers can’t do more than one complete run from Queensferry into town and back. If it was run from central garage drivers could easily do 2 full runs in one part.

 

[alexf380]

Schools off as in school buses are not operating? Wouldn't this mean more buses available in the garage?

Correct, it's February half term so the schools are closed. Usually the chance will be taken to catch up on maintenance a bit so less buses are ready for service.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

On a somewhat related point, with more BZL’s entering service, I would imagine we’ll start seeing transfers to Longstone to replace the remaining 13 buses there. 496, 498-509 currently remain. 497 is now at Seafield.

716 and 725 are likely to enter service imminently at Central and I would be very surprised if 717 doesn’t return from Ferrymill in the coming week either. At least 6 further examples are known to be at Seafield - 730, 731, 735, 739, 741 and 746. It is likely more are also there already.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Yes Lothian country drivers are on a lower hourly rate but you have to also factor in that running it from Livingston means lengthy 30 minute drives in a shuttle van each way for every changeover at Queensferry. This means that, apart from very early mornings and late at night, the timings mean that drivers can’t do more than one complete run from Queensferry into town and back. If it was run from central garage drivers could easily do 2 full runs in one part.

As you say, there are many factors here for speculation.

Prior to setting up the Livingston depot, Lothian ran their 43 from Central using green buses and premium fares while the 63 (predecessor to 71) ran from Longstone with red buses and standard 'city' fares. Although the latter has always been a council contract so Lothian don't have a free choice with the fares.

Lots of different ways of cutting the cloth but nothing is ideal. Using Livingston as a base for the 43 might better reflect passenger flows. But of course running light from/to Livingston won't be much cheaper than empty in-service journeys from/to Central. Changing drivers at Regent Road may not be great for Central staff either. Suppose they could move the terminus to Elm Row or Waverley Bridge instead however I can't see there's a great deal to gain.