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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

Lothiangem22

Member
Joined
30 Jan 2019
Messages
160
I just saw the Airlink with changing screen saying Express 24/7 looks like the start of them ramping up the bus war.
This screen has been available for a while, although the code isn’t well known. This would generally be used for photoshoot purposes, just like the “Lothian” screen which is often used.

There are many screens which are available which aren’t ever used - it just depends if the driver knows it’s there.

Ultimately though, unless it’s screened for service it should display “not in service” outwith.
 
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stevenedin

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26 Jul 2021
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Edinburgh
Yesterday evening a saw 716 on the 47B bound for Cammo and 846 on X19 at Shandwick Place still soldiering on.
841-850 don't seem to feel 18 years old. They appear very reliable. I've noticed 443 I think it was not sounding too healthy on the X27 or X28 the other day. I doubt that 441-465 will last as long as 841-850.
 

VioletEclipse

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10 Nov 2018
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897
Location
Dùn Èideann
841-850 don't seem to feel 18 years old. They appear very reliable. I've noticed 443 I think it was not sounding too healthy on the X27 or X28 the other day. I doubt that 441-465 will last as long as 841-850.
They were heavily refurbished in 2018, which helps quite a lot. I don't think they'd feel that young if they still had their harlequin interiors.
 

scosutsut

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1 Jan 2019
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scosutsut
The ex airline B9s at East Coast have been similarly reliable over a much more extended period of time of getting battered on long distance routes with elements of fast running they wouldn't have really seen on city work.

They've been a very adaptable and successful part of the Volvo double decker lineage, probably viewed by many as superior to both their predecessor and successor, but their time is slowly coming to an end, like all good things!
 

Humberscot

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Joined
11 Mar 2021
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46
Location
Winchburgh
841-850 don't seem to feel 18 years old. They appear very reliable. I've noticed 443 I think it was not sounding too healthy on the X27 or X28 the other day. I doubt that 441-465 will last as long as 841-850.
Have had a few of the 841-850 series on 72's and X19's recently and they are still perfectly up for the job imo. The main problem with the B5TL's is the ride quality: the rattles and shakes are something else - areas like the grey panelling directly at the top of the stairs on the upper deck and the roof panelling. Was surprised 444 was still in service last month, it was rattling so badly (since seems a bit better), and 441 is another bone-shaker.
 
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stevenedin

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Have had a few of the 841-850 series on it's and X19's recently and they are still perfectly up for the job imo. The main problem with the B5TL's is the ride quality: the rattles and shakes are something else - areas like the grey panelling directly at the top of the stairs on the upper deck and the roof panelling. Was surprised 444 was still in service last month, it was rattling so badly (since seems a bit better), and 441 is another bone-shaker.
They would be silly to get rid of them before their time if they are still reliable. They will do well as school vehicles as well move sold on.

I've just had a scary thought. All of the ex Lothian Tridents are now at least 20-21 years old. Where did the time go :!:
 

route101

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16 May 2010
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11,343
The Lothian B9TLs are more comfortable than other buses in the fleet such as the Wright deckers.
 

buslad1988

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2018
Messages
473
Wouldn't expect anything less at this point, haven't been a good service change in years, with a few exceptions.
They don’t currently have the spare vehicles or staff to make any substantial changes. Recruitment is currently frozen except the bare minimum requirements as driver levels are at their full quotas.

The upcoming national insurance hikes to businesses will also cost a substantial sum. So they’ll be being cautious… as will many operators who are warning of cuts/fare increases due to the cost expected.
 
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overthewater

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16 Apr 2012
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8,437
So that mean West Lothian passengers are once again been left to rot. Lets be fair there not being THAT cautious when there started a new bus... instead of using those resource to provide a better service to current passengers.
 

JKP

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Joined
3 Jan 2023
Messages
418
Location
SE Scotland
So that mean West Lothian passengers are once again been left to rot. Lets be fair there not being THAT cautious when there started a new bus... instead of using those resource to provide a better service to current passengers.
Not sure I totally follow.

I would suggest that West Lothian services are not generating enough fares and concessions money to cover their costs and West Lothian Council have no additional money to provide further subsidies for routes in their area.
 

Bus9120UK

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5 Oct 2019
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Edinburgh
Not sure I totally follow.

I would suggest that West Lothian services are not generating enough fares and concessions money to cover their costs and West Lothian Council have no additional money to provide further subsidies for routes in their area.
@overthewater is meaning that it seems odd that Lothian are unwilling to take a risk in providing a better network for West Lothian, (as reality is, the current one is pathetic whether it makes money or not) but they were happy to launch a new service to compete against an existing one especially considering a previous attempt failed.
 

Baileygirl

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31 Oct 2019
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256
Location
livingston
Not sure I totally follow.

I would suggest that West Lothian services are not generating enough fares and concessions money to cover their costs and West Lothian Council have no additional money to provide further subsidies for routes in their area.
West Lothian used to have a great service before Lothian pushed their way in to take over the services. Where once it was a 15/30 minute frequency with busy buses. it is now an hourly frequency with a lot of places not covered and connections between towns and villages lost. Only good service is the X27/X28. They may have won the battle for West Lothian, but the public has lost. Traffic is now horrendous especially around Livingston. You also hear of full buses and leaving passengers behind to wait another hour for the next bus.
 
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TheEastCoaster

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26 Jun 2018
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1,393
I have noticed more people using it recently but barely enough to even fill a small single decker. Hopefully it picks up more in time. If they extended the £2 fare there then I think it may pick up more.

It seems to be that they are trying to cater more to Kirkliston residents rather than Winchburgh, as 95% of the service is within the city boundaries, the moneymaker is winning Kirkliston over with Ridacards and Daytickets offers.

Doubt they would do it, but if they changed it so that the single fare for two zones is £2 as long as one of the zones included the City West zone, they could at least charge £2 between Maybury and Winchburgh, but that is a stretch all for an extra £1.

West Lothian used to have a great service before Lothian pushed their way in to take over the services. Where once it was a 15/30 minute frequency with busy buses. it is now an hourly frequency with a lot of places not covered and connections between towns and villages lost. Only good service is the X27/X28. They may have won the battle for West Lothian, but the public has lost. Traffic is now horrendous especially around Livingston. You also hear of full buses and leaving passengers behind to wait another hour for the next bus.

I'm surprised to hear about the local services being full, but they've had at least 14 months of Lothian Country, which is a joke to think that they have not improved in over a year, I suppose as long as the services are still being used and are reliable for what they are, but an improvement would definitely be beneficial to say the least.
 

overthewater

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I did see the X19 today, a mid morning journey, There was 9 people on it coming into the city but its impossible to tell where these people get on. X38 is still carrying decent loads. Maybe the public are wary to jump ship after what happened in the rest of West Lothian Ie once bitten twice shy.
 

DunsBus

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Duns
I did see the X19 today, a mid morning journey, There was 9 people on it coming into the city but its impossible to tell where these people get on. X38 is still carrying decent loads. Maybe the public are wary to jump ship after what happened in the rest of West Lothian Ie once bitten twice shy.
West Lothian is a classic case of "be careful what you wish for." The passengers wanted First and then McGills out - or so the media would have had you believe - and got their wish. However, what's now on offer from Lothian Country is nowhere near as extensive as previously and it's obvious that they've learned nothing from the EX1, EX2 and X38 debacles with the X19.
 

stevenedin

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West Lothian is a classic case of "be careful what you wish for." The passengers wanted First and then McGills out - or so the media would have had you believe - and got their wish. However, what's now on offer from Lothian Country is nowhere near as extensive as previously and it's obvious that they've learned nothing from the EX1, EX2 and X38 debacles with the X19.
Exactly, the service with First was much better than what there is now. Too many people jump to conclusions with First and sometimes it's warranted but they generally operated a decent service overall.

Even when they had Dalkieth depot they operated well and the 18 service in Edinburgh was ran very well under First with drivers always friendly.
 

stevenedin

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Well deserved! Sure the staff would be honoured to win this award!

In other news, this next-stop announcement pixel-screen featuring on 701e-711e have appeared on 401 today: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/4arKjSojdbjQjRHq/?mibextid=K35 - If you don't have Facebook, a photo is attached.

Why is the placement so awkward? If they were going to do this, maybe put it in similar placing of the BZLs. Thoughts?
I saw this today and it seems very smart. The announcements are good too but only thing I'll say is that it doesn't announce the stops until the bus is just about at the stop so it's not very good for those who don't know the area well.
 

TheEastCoaster

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26 Jun 2018
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Exactly, the service with First was much better than what there is now. Too many people jump to conclusions with First and sometimes it's warranted but they generally operated a decent service overall.

Even when they had Dalkieth depot they operated well and the 18 service in Edinburgh was ran very well under First with drivers always friendly.

I would argue that the X19 is a combination of playing it safe, unlike last time when the X38 was an exact duplicate to Linlithgow, however it shouldn't of been on their list of priorities in the West Lothian network, worse case scenario is they withdraw the X19 and Winchburgh is left with an hourly 72, however if they scrap the X19, what will become of the N43?

If Lothian offered a better local network then maybe we would be more forgiving of another express service.
 
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if they scrap the X19, what will become of the N43?
Immediately prior to Covid when Lothian Country were promoting their X38, the plan was to run N43 journeys back into the city centre via Kirkliston and the A8. However if few people in Kirkliston and Winchburgh are now using the daytime X19 there's little point in running the N43 beyond Queensferry. I imagine it would revert to terminating at Borrowman Square at weekends and run light back to the depot like any other 43.
N43 loadings on its conventional section (mirroring the daytime service) aren't vast in my experience, but I feel still worth running.
 

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