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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

scotrail158713

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Sorry to read of an increase in antisocial behaviour on the buses. It’s something I’ve never really come across on any bus I’ve been on, but I have no doubt it happens.
I take my hat off to the drivers who have to deal with it though - I’m sure they deal with it in a far more professional way than I would. :)
 
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CN04NRJ

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Yeah, it doesn't seem like this would be a big problem in Edinburgh but a few times I've been on a bus in West Lothian and stones have been thrown at the bus, emergency doors getting messed about and failed attempts to assult a bus driver.

It must be a horrible job being a bus driver having to deal with that so consistently.

Luckily I haven't had any serious incidents here (other than fireworks thrown at the bus that missed in Niddrie) other than stones thrown at the bus last week.

Shortly before I left Cardiff this happened, was pelted with stones while helping a wheelchair user off followed by this brick just as I got back in. Scary experience and pure luck nobody was injured!. Was also assaulted once after a man who wanted to board at a set of traffic lights chased me for almost a mile and attempted to drag me out of the cab window, as well as an irate passenger trying to smash through the assault screen for being refused with an open bottle of vodka. You'd think those experiences would be enough to put me off but for some reason I still enjoy the job :lol:

received_180544230523395.jpegreceived_1614227995440829.jpeg
 

cnjb8

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Luckily I haven't had any serious incidents here (other than fireworks thrown at the bus that missed in Niddrie) other than stones thrown at the bus last week.

Shortly before I left Cardiff this happened, was pelted with stones while helping a wheelchair user off followed by this brick just as I got back in. Scary experience and pure luck nobody was injured!. Was also assaulted once after a man who wanted to board at a set of traffic lights chased me for almost a mile and attempted to drag me out of the cab window, as well as an irate passenger trying to smash through the assault screen for being refused with an open bottle of vodka. You'd think those experiences would be enough to put me off but for some reason I still enjoy the job :lol:

View attachment 90146View attachment 90147
Wow, I definitely wouldn't be able to keep driving after that? Were you offered any support after the incidents?
 

GusB

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We are getting somewhat off-topic here. Feel free to start a new thread if anyone wishes to carry on the discussion regarding anti-social behaviour.
 

90019

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Was there an incident around 4:50pm on a Lothian or in any of the Lothian subsidiaries, I heard something on the intercom couldn't make out what it was completely but when I was getting off a bus (276) I heard some sort of incident happened.

All I could make out was...

" On the lower Deck 184"

If anyone can make anything out of this, is this in connection to the Wester Hails incident or something different.
Thanks :).
Specifying lower deck sounds like it was probably just a lost property call.
 

Tartan shorts

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We are getting somewhat off-topic here. Feel free to start a new thread if anyone wishes to carry on the discussion regarding anti-social behaviour.
Apologies it was me that raised it last night. However I would have thought the vandalism and attacking of Lothian buses and potentially injuring their drivers and passengers was very much on topic.

Certainly to my mind more relevant that what bus may or may not be in service or withdrawn in six months time.
 

TheEastCoaster

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sorry this might be taking this subject back about 7 years, but when Lothian introduced the 104 back in 2014 about 2 years before First pulled out of East Lothian in 2016, I was just wondering if anyone with any sort of rough knowledge especially if you stay in Haddington would know if despite the new found competition, were First still holding up passengers or did they lose them to Lothian?

obviously Lothian took over all of East Lothian’s major operations eventually but just that two year gap has been tinkering in my mind, and I hope someone can help my stranger curiosity!

also off topic but ECB turn 5 years old this August!
 

OmniCity999

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sorry this might be taking this subject back about 7 years, but when Lothian introduced the 104 back in 2014 about 2 years before First pulled out of East Lothian in 2016, I was just wondering if anyone with any sort of rough knowledge especially if you stay in Haddington would know if despite the new found competition, were First still holding up passengers or did they lose them to Lothian?

obviously Lothian took over all of East Lothian’s major operations eventually but just that two year gap has been tinkering in my mind, and I hope someone can help my stranger curiosity!

also off topic but ECB turn 5 years old this August!
This is all entirely on topic surely?

Lothian launched the 104 as competition to Firsts routes. First changed the timings of the X8 and 108's or the various variations of these regularly to be ahead of the 104 timetables, even by as little as a minute.

Both First and Lothian services were equally as busy throughout this time.

It was only after Lothian took over the First services fully, with roadshows, advertising and large social presence that numbers on board services started to rise.

Eventually it came to a head and Lothian bought first out - but dont get confused, it wasn't because of the 104. I'm led to believe it was a long time coming.
 

scotrail158713

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when Lothian introduced the 104 back in 2014 about 2 years before First pulled out of East Lothian in 2016, I was just wondering if anyone with any sort of rough knowledge especially if you stay in Haddington would know if despite the new found competition, were First still holding up passengers or did they lose them to Lothian?
From what I remember the 104 wasn’t hugely successful initially.
First had the X6 that was direct along the A1 from Haddington into Edinburgh, as well as the X8 which went through Macmerry and Tranent but didn’t go via Wallyford. And the 104 was also all stops in Edinburgh vs First services which were limited stop. This seemed more popular for any passengers I remembered speaking to.
The thing the 104 had going for it though was that Ridacards were available out to Haddington, so onward ticketing in Edinburgh was an option.

ECB turn 5 years old this August!
Wow! Where does time go?
As well as that, this June will be 9 years since the original East Lothian Buses - now East Coast Buses - launched the 113.
 

TheEastCoaster

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From what I remember the 104 wasn’t hugely successful initially.
First had the X6 that was direct along the A1 from Haddington into Edinburgh, as well as the X8 which went through Macmerry and Tranent but didn’t go via Wallyford. And the 104 was also all stops in Edinburgh vs First services which were limited stop. This seemed more popular for any passengers I remembered speaking to.
The thing the 104 had going for it though was that Ridacards were available out to Haddington, so onward ticketing in Edinburgh was an option.


Wow! Where does time go?
As well as that, this June will be 9 years since the original East Lothian Buses - now East Coast Buses - launched the 113.

That makes sense, but I gathered the ridacard was a deal breaker for most folk, must of helped it was the same year the trams launched also, probably also helped ECB when they took over the 124 with the Ridacard along those ways.

Wow can’t believe it’s been almost a decade since the 113, it’s come so far.

In June New LothianCountry will be 4 years old and the West Lothian Services will be 3 this year too.

Thats right the 43 will be 4 years old
soon, strange to imagine these services still here after all this time, I know folk are split between Lothians ambitious expansion towards West but it is funny to look back and think what could come next! Here’s to LCB/ECB Lothians “greener” services ;)
 
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That makes sense, but I gathered the ridacard was a deal breaker for most folk, must of helped it was the same year the trams launched also, probably also helped ECB when they took over the 124 with the Ridacard along those ways.

Wow can’t believe it’s been almost a decade since the 113, it’s come so far.



Thats right the 43 will be 4 years old
soon, strange to imagine these services still here after all this time, I know folk are split between Lothians ambitious expansion towards West but it is funny to look back and think what could come next! Here’s to LCB/ECB Lothians “greener” services ;)
That true, it's usually like "every route is failing apart from ×××, or I think that Lothian should wrap up and stay in Edinburgh".

In my opinion it is a mixed bag, their services X18, X27, X28 and 280 (and 275 but this is more inconsistent) is probably where they get most of their revenue from.

Any time I see the X18 going to or from Edinburgh (not on peak) it seems to be quite busy, similarly with the X27 and X28.

The 280 was often packed when ever i seen it, the 275 is no where near their least preforming route but it is inconsistent I would say 6/10 times the 275 had a good few people travelling on it but sometimes there is hardly anyone in it.

The X17 (or respectively 276) wasn't as busy as would have been anticipated, it was a useful service but it didn't generate many users.

I would say their leas performing routes are/were: 281 (OLD) X38 and both GreenArrow express services (EX1 and EX2) this is based on how many times I've seen them and at what times.

I would say the pros outweigh the cons, I think personally that Lothian Country buses operate a fantastic service with well maintained buses and with great comfort.

Lastly I think some people are mixing up low performance with bad sevice.

(Obviously I'm comparing pre lockdown services because it isn't fair to base them on current times)
 

ScotRail158725

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I would say the pros outweigh the cons, I think personally that Lothian Country buses operate a fantastic service with well maintained buses and with great comfort.
Id have to disagree with the pros outweighing the cons statement. In fact id disagree with well maintened aswell. most of their Ex London B9s are a state inside and externaly, eventhough they were repainted 2 years ago, look really faded and worn especially with the replacement panels which are noticeably cheaply done
 
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Id have to disagree with the pros outweighing the cons statement. In fact id disagree with well maintened aswell. most of their Ex London B9s are a state inside and externaly, eventhough they were repainted 2 years ago, look really faded and worn especially with the replacement panels which are noticeably cheaply done
I don't know what you mean, I have been on many of the ex London B9TL's and they seem to look fine but I may not pick up on these things, I wouldn't say that cons outweigh the pros though.

I'm not having a dig at First Bus West Lothian here but, LothianCountry has a more up to date fleet with the oldest vehicles being from early 2009 and the youngest being from late 2017, whereas First Bus oldest vehicles being from late 2002 and the youngest being from late 2016 but the majority of their fleet is between 2004-2015 where LothianCountry's is between 2010-2017, the majority of LothianCountry's buses the least eco-friendly buses are Euro 5, whereas First Bus's least eco-friendly bus is Euro 2, I have used First Bus as an example because they are Lothian Country's biggest competitor.

Apparently Lothian Buses 779 (SN56 ADZ) is in the Broxburn storage site now (the one that helped rebuild SN10 DKO (20)942's roof).
 
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Edirim

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Err you might want to revise that statement about fleet ages
First bus are a bit more upto date than your trying to suggest
 

CN04NRJ

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Id have to disagree with the pros outweighing the cons statement. In fact id disagree with well maintened aswell. most of their Ex London B9s are a state inside and externaly, eventhough they were repainted 2 years ago, look really faded and worn especially with the replacement panels which are noticeably cheaply done

None of their vehicles I've seen and travel on (regularly for work and I live in Bathgate so...) match your description. Is it based on reality or just the usual biased gibberish?

As for other companies, most of the vehicles I see around West Lothian are old B7RLEs doing their bit for the environment (;)) . Though they do look externally smart for the most part, just as LCBs vehicles do too.
 
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Err you might want to revise that statement about fleet ages
First bus are a bit more upto date than your trying to suggest
The Majority of First Bus West Lothian's Fleet are either Volvo B7RLE's Wright Eclipse Urban's (2004-2009) or Wright Streetlite DF's/ Wright Streetlite Max DF's (2013-2015), the rest of the fleet are 2002 52 plated Caetano Nimbus Dart's and 2016 66 plated Enviro400MMC's, also bear in mind that their Bright Bus Tours buses range from 1999-2006.

Like I'm not having a dig at First I was simply comparing them to LothianCountry for argument sake :).

None of their vehicles I've seen and travel on (regularly for work and I live in Bathgate so...) match your description. Is it based on reality or just the usual biased gibberish?

As for other companies, most of the vehicles I see around West Lothian are old B7RLEs doing their bit for the environment (;)). Though they do look externally smart for the most part, just as LCBs vehicles do too.
Yeah, I was thinking that because the Ex London B9TL's aren't really in bad shape externally or Internally at all.
 
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route101

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I don't live in the area of West Lothian, but last few times I took bus from Livingston to Edinburgh I chose Lothian. One for onward ticket acceptance and two, decker vs streetlite.
 

Bus9120UK

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None of their vehicles I've seen and travel on (regularly for work and I live in Bathgate so...) match your description. Is it based on reality or just the usual biased gibberish?

As for other companies, most of the vehicles I see around West Lothian are old B7RLEs doing their bit for the environment ;))) . Though they do look externally smart for the most part, just as LCBs vehicles do too.
Got to agree with this, only once I have noticed some of the new paint coming off showing the old purple - but that is it. The buses are very smart and well presented.
 

OmniCity999

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So where did 779 go?

Because I'm pretty sure I seen it turning into east mains.
Volvo probably, maybe en route to be scrapped.

If it had a tacho fitted, it'll need to be removed from a tacho workshop. We can't do that in house. I don't know if it had a tacho or not though.
 

CN04NRJ

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Got to agree with this, only once I have noticed some of the new paint coming off showing the old purple - but that is it. The buses are very smart and well presented.

I think the same can be said for both rival operators in West Lothian. Both have a similar average fleet age profile (obviously First have a handful of older vehicles) but presentation of vehicles is about equal. As for maintenance, I'm not sure how @ScotRail158725 would be in a position to know anything about the maintenance of any companies vehicles?

I'm sure both LCB and First maintain their vehicles to a very high standard and breakdowns will happen regardless. It's just something that happens across the industry.
 

cnjb8

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I don't know what you mean, I have been on many of the ex London B9TL's and they seem to look fine but I may not pick up on these things, I wouldn't say that cons outweigh the pros though.

I'm not having a dig at First Bus West Lothian here but, LothianCountry has a more up to date fleet with the oldest vehicles being from early 2009 and the youngest being from late 2017, whereas First Bus oldest vehicles being from late 2002 and the youngest being from late 2016 but the majority of their fleet is between 2004-2015 where LothianCountry's is between 2010-2017, the majority of LothianCountry's buses the least eco-friendly buses are Euro 5, whereas First Bus's least eco-friendly bus is Euro 2, I have used First Bus as an example because they are Lothian Country's biggest competitor.

Apparently Lothian Buses 779 (SN56 ADZ) is in the Broxburn storage site now (the one that helped rebuild SN10 DKO (20)942's roof).
But its unfair to compare Euro emissions together in this case, nationwide First has at least 5100 buses in frontline work, of which a significant proportion still needs emissions upgrading. I believe First Scotland East has converted circa.30 buses to Euro 6, combined with the younger StreetLites and E400MMCs, that is still better than what you are making it out to be. Also, First has received funding to upgrade 200 more buses to Euro 6 across Scotland, so its not bad.
Lothian has a significantly smaller fleet to deal with, so they can introduce emissions upgrades at a faster pace.
 
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But its unfair to compare Euro emissions together in this case, nationwide First has at least 5100 buses in frontline work, of which a significant proportion still needs emissions upgrading. I believe First Scotland East has converted circa.30 buses to Euro 6, combined with the younger StreetLites and E400MMCs, that is still better than what you are making it out to be. Also, First has received funding to upgrade 200 more buses to Euro 6 across Scotland, so its not bad.
Lothian has a significantly smaller fleet to deal with, so they can introduce emissions upgrades at a faster pace.
I wasn't meaning First Bus as a whole, only West Lothian operations i was referring to, I think First bus have a great fleet no doubt about that, like I said I was referring to West Lothian operations :).
 

ScotRail158725

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I'm not sure how @ScotRail158725 would be in a position to know anything about the maintenance of any companies vehicles?
Im talking about general upkeep of the interiors. The Ex London stock is the only ones that seem to have this issue but they often have dirty interiors (stains on the floor, dusty seats etc..). this is from a general passenger perspective and im not on Lothian Country often but as i say thats often noticable on only the Ex London stock and not the B5s or native B9s

None of their vehicles I've seen and travel on (regularly for work and I live in Bathgate so...) match your description. Is it based on reality or just the usual biased gibberish?
I’m not being biased? Just stating what i’ve seen from my (not often) Lothian Country journeys
 

GusB

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Could I remind everyone that this thread is for discussion of matters pertaining to Lothian, and not First. While appreciate it may be appropriate when comparisons are being made between the two fleets, this is a delicate subject around these parts and this should be borne in mind :)
 

CN04NRJ

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Im talking about general upkeep of the interiors. The Ex London stock is the only ones that seem to have this issue but they often have dirty interiors (stains on the floor, dusty seats etc..). this is from a general passenger perspective and im not on Lothian Country often but as i say thats often noticable on only the Ex London stock and not the B5s or native B9s


I’m not being biased? Just stating what i’ve seen from my (not often) Lothian Country journeys

Well as a regular (well semi regular due to the lockdown, mainly use the 275 to Bathgate station or the X28 if the train from Edinburgh Park isn't an option) user of LCB services i'd strongly disagree with you. Prior posts of yours suggest a bias, but I won't get into that as per GusB's post above.
 

Edirim

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Sorry just have to put some facts out there from the back of my cigarette packet...

LCB currently use ~48 buses a day from a fleet of ~57
24 - 60 plates
09 - 09 plates
03 - 57 plates
04 - 11 plates
08 -67 plates
10 - 13 plates

This works out an average age of 9.7 years for the fleet

First currently use ~65 buses a day from a fleet of ~73
10 66 plates
01 52 plate
12 63 plates
09 14 plate
17 64 plates
04 65 plates
02 54 plates
04 55 plates
02 56 plates
02 07 plates
03 57 plates
07 09 plates
This works out an average age of 8.9 years for the fleet.

Although first have a much larger spread of vehicle age, their bulk orders in the 2013-2015 period really brought their vehicle age up.
Lothian have a much smaller vehicle age range but the majority of their vehicles are over 10 years old.
 

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