Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[computerSaysNo]

936 and another of the batch could possibly replace 905 and 906 although it’s only a year newer but it would allow them to sell off the older vehicle or possibly it is away for a repaint and this batch will replace 841-850. We will find out in time.

Is there a reason the 3 Bridges Tour doesn't operate with the open-tops?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

936 and another of the batch could possibly replace 905 and 906 although it’s only a year newer but it would allow them to sell off the older vehicle or possibly it is away for a repaint and this batch will replace 841-850. We will find out in time.

935 has had its hooks removed. I think 936 is simply either shuttling drivers to bring back some of these B5LH’s or it is getting a partial respray to look the same as 935. A full respray while possible would seem totally silly in my opinion. 936 went straight from inside Seafield to Ferrymill which is not as common. Normally they head outside the night before, or sit outside for ages.

Is there a reason the 3 Bridges Tour doesn't operate with the open-tops?

It’s because it runs on the A90 I believe. If an open top is ever used on the 3 Bridges Tour the open top part is sealed off from the public.

 

[computerSaysNo]

It’s because it runs on the A90 I believe. If an open top is ever used on the 3 Bridges Tour the open top part is sealed off from the public.

Oh, okay. What does the A90 have against open-tops?

 

[Grumpyscot]

70mph speed limit perhaps - no other open top runs through that distance on a 70 limit road

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Oh, okay. What does the A90 have against open-tops?

I know 221-250 have lower limiters on them for a start, which I believe are set at 42mph. Whether that has any impact on the actual running I’m not sure as they’ll put one out anyway.

The section of the A90 it uses I think has a maximum speed limit of 50mph, it is also a dual carriageway. I would think there’s a restriction on open top usage on dual carriageways which is the problem; ie only the closed parts can used.

 

[ScotRail158725]

70mph speed limit perhaps - no other open top runs through that distance on a 70 limit road

I doubt a B5TL is capable of such speeds

 

[Siemens Trains]

The section of the A90 it uses I think has a maximum speed limit of 50mph, it is also a dual carriageway. I would think there’s a restriction on open top usage on dual carriageways which is the problem; ie only the closed parts can used.

True, but Princes Street is a dual carriageway too and carries open top buses so maybe more a matter of choice when assessing the route rather than imposed by the road clasification. I imagine it's a combination of risks associated with the rural environment such as fast-moving trees, changeable weather plus the high or gusty winds, often exacerbated by road speed. Also if a passenger alights directly (or falls) from the top deck the situation could be more serious than in an urban setting. I used to see conductors closing doors across the normally-open rear platform when a service took to higher speed country routes, presumably for passenger safety reasons rather than comfort.

 

[Darklord8899]

True, but Princes Street is a dual carriageway too and carries open top buses so maybe more a matter of choice when assessing the route rather than imposed by the road clasification. I imagine it's a combination of risks associated with the rural environment such as fast-moving trees, changeable weather plus the high or gusty winds, often exacerbated by road speed. Also if a passenger alights directly (or falls) from the top deck the situation could be more serious than in an urban setting. I used to see conductors closing doors across the normally-open rear platform when a service took to higher speed country routes, presumably for passenger safety reasons rather than comfort.

when was the last time you saw an open top (or closed top) doing 40+ mph on Princes Street ???

 

[computerSaysNo]

Princes Street is a dual carriageway

A dual-carriageway in description, maybe, but I doubt the lanes are wide enough to classify it as your "standard" dual-carriageway.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

True, but Princes Street is a dual carriageway too and carries open top buses so maybe more a matter of choice when assessing the route rather than imposed by the road clasification. I imagine it's a combination of risks associated with the rural environment such as fast-moving trees, changeable weather plus the high or gusty winds, often exacerbated by road speed. Also if a passenger alights directly (or falls) from the top deck the situation could be more serious than in an urban setting. I used to see conductors closing doors across the normally-open rear platform when a service took to higher speed country routes, presumably for passenger safety reasons rather than comfort.

As far as I know for a road to be classified as a dual carriageway in the UK it needs to have a minimum speed limit of 30mph. If that criteria is correct then Princes Street cannot be classed as a dual carriageway. In the UK you also generally need a proper Central reservation for it to qualify as one as well. Princes Street only has a kerb.

The restriction would ultimately come down to a number of factors when combined that I explained before plus a few others.

What the exact restrictions entail (if there are any) I don’t know. It’s worth remembering that the 124 has used 250 (maybe even 249 as well) in the past. There is of course a short dual carriageway section on that between Prestonpans and Longniddry.

 

[Scotrail314209]

On the subject of Princes Street, the congestion there this evening was absolutely horrific. It took me 1hr 10 to get from Waverley to Clermiston, 30 minutes of that was spent trying to navigate Princes St and Lothian Road.

There was even a service update put out earlier saying that buses are being delayed across the city.

Today must’ve been one of the worst days for delays and cancellations?

 

[stevenedin]

Furious Edinburgh residents warn they have been 'cut off' after removal of bus route

Nurses are having to depend on a unreliable bus service along Queensferry Road in order to get to their shifts after the 41 bus route was axed from their community.

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

Furious Edinburgh residents warn they have been 'cut off' after removal of bus route​

Nurses are having to depend on a unreliable bus service along Queensferry Road in order to get to their shifts after the 41 bus route was axed from their community.

They should run some journeys on the 43 Part route to Barnton to cover this section.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Furious Edinburgh residents warn they have been 'cut off' after removal of bus route

Nurses are having to depend on a unreliable bus service along Queensferry Road in order to get to their shifts after the 41 bus route was axed from their community.

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

They should run some journeys on the 43 Part route to Barnton to cover this section.

Sadly articles like this are all too common. If only the users actually understood the reasons as to why the changes were changed. They say there’s no replacement for the 41, erm the replacement is the 43 which does the exact same thing, it just doesn’t serve Davidson’s Mains - no biggie. Yes maybe it’s unreliable at the minute but a lot of these factors are uncontrollable. On one hand I do think the 43 needs to return to Regent Road but I actually think this is one of the major reasons for its continual unreliability.

Anywhere will be lucky to get an increase at the minute, and if something did you can be sure something else will be cut to make that happen. The current network is far from ideal but I’m afraid we’re all just going to have get used to it. It will be like this for many months to come, and probably beyond.

I’d love my every 12 minutes off peak bus back, but when that route can’t be reliable at every 20 minutes off peak I think that answers a lot of questions.

 

[computerSaysNo]

On the subject of Princes Street, the congestion there this evening was absolutely horrific. It took me 1hr 10 to get from Waverley to Clermiston, 30 minutes of that was spent trying to navigate Princes St and Lothian Road.

There was even a service update put out earlier saying that buses are being delayed across the city.

Today must’ve been one of the worst days for delays and cancellations?

Has there been changes to the Leith Walk traffic diversions again?
Apparently there were temporary traffic lights at King's Road today which were causing 30 minute queues in all directions.

 

[overthewater]

Furious Edinburgh residents warn they have been 'cut off' after removal of bus route

Nurses are having to depend on a unreliable bus service along Queensferry Road in order to get to their shifts after the 41 bus route was axed from their community.

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

They should run some journeys on the 43 Part route to Barnton to cover this section.

Not sure how a frequent service has left people cut off? In fact, further changes are being made next month, with the evening service going up to every 30mins until 11pm? Sunday service increasing from every 30 minutes to every 20 minutes. Surely this will solve the issues?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Has there been changes to the Leith Walk traffic diversions again?
Apparently there were temporary traffic lights at King's Road today which were causing 30 minute queues in all directions.

Yes. Elm Row southbound and the access to/from London Road in both directions are closed from Monday 24th October for about 3 weeks. I think this is to join up the new tram lines to the existing line and possibly to allow for the installation of the permanent traffic management infrastructure.

 

[scosutsut]

Yes. Elm Row southbound and the access to/from London Road in both directions are closed from Monday 24th October for about 3 weeks. I think this is to join up the new tram lines to the existing line and possibly to allow for the installation of the permanent traffic management infrastructure.

Explains why Regent Road isn't flowing quite as well now!

 

[Porty]

Has there been changes to the Leith Walk traffic diversions again?
Apparently there were temporary traffic lights at King's Road today which were causing 30 minute queues in all directions.

Temporary traffic lights were on Harry Lauder Road, somewhere out of sight from the King's Road junction (when I checked yesterday on AA Roadwatch). Queueing traffic southbound on HLR was often blocking the King's Road traffic lights so on some cycles nil traffic, or maybe only 2 or 3 vehicles actually made it from Portobello High Street towards the city. Seemed to be causing huge delays. I was waiting for a 45 or 26 to the city,west of the junction, and despite the tracker at the stop saying "due", the buses took about 10 mins to arrive.

 

[Bus9120UK]

The B5LH repaints continue to progress with 590 back, and an unexpected departure for 578 to the paint shop. 578 will probably join 579-590 in becoming Green & white. @FlybeDash8Q400 was able to confirm earlier that there will certainly be some (if not all) heading to LC after one was spotted branded for it through the open doors when 590 arrived earlier. It's unknown which one that was.

 

[eh1]

The B5LH repaints continue to progress with 590 back, and an unexpected departure for 578 to the paint shop. 578 will probably join 579-590 in becoming Green & white. @FlybeDash8Q400 was able to confirm earlier that there will certainly be some (if not all) heading to LC after one was spotted branded for it through the open doors when 590 arrived earlier. It's unknown which one that was.

I guess that means LCs 900s may have limited time left on the fleet. I wonder if 926/927 will go with them? Would be a shame.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I guess that means LCs 900s may have limited time left on the fleet. I wonder if 926/927 will go with them? Would be a shame.

The rumor is that 926/7 will go once 496 and the rest of the 15 plate hybrids have been repainted. Should this happen, it's still unknown though. Yes I think so too that the LC 900s have not got long left.
I must note that it's still unknown where 936 is. Should it be at Ferrymill, the options me and @FlybeDash8Q400 have considered are that it's either going white like 115 and 124 did before it's sold, or somehow it's going into Green & White which would probably rule out the idea of it leaving the fleet in the next few weeks. The other option is that it is back in Edinburgh and that it was only used as a driver carrier a few days ago (to get a driver across to bring 579 back), but as it's frozen, no info can be confirmed.

 

[stevenedin]

The rumor is that 926/7 will go once 496 and the rest of the 15 plate hybrids have been repainted. Should this happen, it's still unknown though. Yes I think so too that the LC 900s have not got long left.
I must note that it's still unknown where 936 is. Should it be at Ferrymill, the options me and @FlybeDash8Q400 have considered are that it's either going white like 115 and 124 did before it's sold, or somehow it's going into Green & White which would probably rule out the idea of it leaving the fleet in the next few weeks. The other option is that it is back in Edinburgh and that it was only used as a driver carrier a few days ago (to get a driver across to bring 579 back), but as it's frozen, no info can be confirmed.

One thing I’ve noticed is that there are no double decker training buses at the moment. Perhaps some of these could be used as driver trainers.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I only think they'd use 926/7 for that, they're in much better condition.

 

[Bus9120UK]

One thing I’ve noticed is that there are no double decker training buses at the moment. Perhaps some of these could be used as driver trainers.

I don't think it'll happen. Can a driver here compare the difference between driving a single decker & double, and whether double decker trainers would be of any use?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

The only difference is the length, isn't it? Even that varies as the XLB's are longer than all singles!

Maybe the suspension as well but things will vary in every single-decker.

 

[eh1]

During my time in the training school, people had the odd shot on deckers but usually engineering would ask us to take a 500 out when route learning. I can only assume this was to charge the batteries or check that the hybrid was working as it should. I can't imagine they'll have deckers in the training fleet again.

 

[Lothiangem22]

There won’t be deckers within the training fleet - ultimately the training school is an opportunity for candidates to gain a bus licence which is a standard licence which covers both single and double deck vehicles.

Training is done in the specialised single decks TB1-TB6.

Once the trainees pass their test, further training, including garage routes, is done in one of 4 hybrids which the training school have use of.

In the final stages of training the trainers will request certain service buses from the driver's allocated garage for a familiarisation which is purely to learn controls and allow for a short period of driving.

Ultimately, with double deck vehicles, they’re either too old and uneconomical or too new and expensive a purchase to provide as training vehicles.

 

[bonnyrigglad1]

623 is back at Longstone. It was parked up after I got back from my run out on one of the training school buses, so it should be back soon.

 

[Bus9120UK]

581/2/4/5 are all in convoy to Livingston. 586 may or may not be as well.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

581/2/4/5 are all in convoy to Livingston. 586 may or may not be as well.

Seems very likely that all 12 are going to end up in West Lothian.