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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

ScotRail158725

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27 Nov 2018
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2,179
Yes, but if you reduce the amount of buses stopping there, that would also reduce the times though? So it is both.
Theres no need though as neither stop is overly congested its only the dwell times if there happens to be 2 or 3 Lothian Country buses at a time

I know that this really doesn't affect me anymore because I no longer living the city but remove bordered flag is really really bad and creates so much trouble for passengers like myself who can't see or for wheelchair users or those with other challenges, particularly discriminating to blind passengers who don't know that their buses stacked up three behind the one currently at the stop and if it drives off into the wide blueyonda we could be waiting for a very long time for potentially the same thing to happen again. Anyone who supports this needs to really walk a mile in my shoes, you'd get about five yards I can assure you
Edinburgh might be the only place that uses board at flag in the UK and theres really no need for it. Everywhere else works perfectly fine so i dont see how removing it here would be an issue
 
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stevenedin

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Theres no need though as neither stop is overly congested its only the dwell times if there happens to be 2 or 3 Lothian Country buses at a time


Edinburgh might be the only place that uses board at flag in the UK and theres really no need for it. Everywhere else works perfectly fine so i dont see how removing it here would be an issue
I do feel like if it was removed then bus stops close together need to be merged into one (i.e. the ones at Waverley Market) to allow people to board along the pavement without the bus shelter in the way. The 3 bus stops at Scott Monument would be the same they should be make into one or two.
 

VioletEclipse

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10 Nov 2018
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Dùn Èideann
I feel like this is a situation where there isn't really a simple solution that's easy to implement. Waverley steps is a very significant bus hub, but without anywhere near the space that would be required as to not delay any buses (ie a bus station layout). Honestly the way it works now is definitely imperfect, but probably the best compromise bar an extensive redesign of the street and wider city centre. As established, board at the flag policy is important, and shouldn't be removed.
 

Lothianbus703

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2 Apr 2020
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229
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Edinburgh
I feel like this is a situation where there isn't really a simple solution that's easy to implement. Waverley steps is a very significant bus hub, but without anywhere near the space that would be required as to not delay any buses (ie a bus station layout). Honestly the way it works now is definitely imperfect, but probably the best compromise bar an extensive redesign of the street and wider city centre. As established, board at the flag policy is important, and shouldn't be removed.
A bus station for local bus services would be a great addition to Edinburgh, I do not know if the council has ever considered this/put a plan forward, once this is decided it would be the question of where to locate this, potentially built into another building or underground.
 

bobdoe

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8 Sep 2023
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75
Location
Kirkcaldy
A bus station for local bus services would be a great addition to Edinburgh, I do not know if the council has ever considered this/put a plan forward, once this is decided it would be the question of where to locate this, potentially built into another building or underground.
Princes Street Gardens? :E
 

oldman

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26 Nov 2013
Messages
1,028
I was looking at the bus stop information screens again this morning. Turns out there are two Mayfields displaying - one in Midlothian for the 3; one in Edinburgh for the 9 (aka King's Buildings). Buses to Queen Margaret are shown as Musselburgh, Ocean Terminal is North Leith, the 26 to Clermiston not Clerwood and so on. It's entertaining.
 

Baileygirl

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31 Oct 2019
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221
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livingston
A bus station for local bus services would be a great addition to Edinburgh, I do not know if the council has ever considered this/put a plan forward, once this is decided it would be the question of where to locate this, potentially built into another building or underground.
It was mooted years ago that a bus station would be built on Haymarket Yards. Now a hotel and offices.
 

TheEastCoaster

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26 Jun 2018
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1,225
I was looking at the bus stop information screens again this morning. Turns out there are two Mayfields displaying - one in Midlothian for the 3; one in Edinburgh for the 9 (aka King's Buildings). Buses to Queen Margaret are shown as Musselburgh, Ocean Terminal is North Leith, the 26 to Clermiston not Clerwood and so on. It's entertaining.

It is very entertaining, 47 has Drumbrae? 20 (McGills) has Edinburgh.. towards Chesser for some reason which is hilariously vague, I know it's all in the testing phase but it's still interesting, a few specific ones which are technically right like 11 for Gilmerton and 5 for Swanston are nice.

Speaking of which, why aren't the 5/27 destinations Swanston anyway? Hunters Tryst is just the pub at the top of the hill but the bus terminates in the housing bit past Morrisons!
 

bobdoe

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8 Sep 2023
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Kirkcaldy
It is very entertaining, 47 has Drumbrae? 20 (McGills) has Edinburgh.. towards Chesser for some reason which is hilariously vague, I know it's all in the testing phase but it's still interesting, a few specific ones which are technically right like 11 for Gilmerton and 5 for Swanston are nice.

Speaking of which, why aren't the 5/27 destinations Swanston anyway? Hunters Tryst is just the pub at the top of the hill but the bus terminates in the housing bit past Morrisons!
Wikipedia "Hunter's Tryst is the name of a long-established inn in Edinburgh, Scotland; it has lent its name to the surrounding area, near Fairmilehead"

On Ember Inns, the pub also exaggerates its location "Located near to Livingston (??) and Loanhead, and close to the A720 Edinburgh bypass, this local pub near you..."
 

stevenedin

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26 Jul 2021
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Edinburgh
It is very entertaining, 47 has Drumbrae? 20 (McGills) has Edinburgh.. towards Chesser for some reason which is hilariously vague, I know it's all in the testing phase but it's still interesting, a few specific ones which are technically right like 11 for Gilmerton and 5 for Swanston are nice.

Speaking of which, why aren't the 5/27 destinations Swanston anyway? Hunters Tryst is just the pub at the top of the hill but the bus terminates in the housing bit past Morrisons!
It’s the same with the 25. It actually stops in Craigentinny not Restalrig. They have taken the street name of Restalrig Avenue rather than actual Restalrig.
 

R Scandle

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Joined
23 Jul 2019
Messages
18
A bus station for local bus services would be a great addition to Edinburgh, I do not know if the council has ever considered this/put a plan forward, once this is decided it would be the question of where to locate this, potentially built into another building or underground.
But the Council couldn't force bus operators to use it.
 

oldman

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26 Nov 2013
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1,028
Speaking of which, why aren't the 5/27 destinations Swanston anyway? Hunters Tryst is just the pub at the top of the hill but the bus terminates in the housing bit past Morrisons!
The road to the terminus is New Swanston, but to me Swanston is further east, with the 4 the closest route. There's also the original village over the bypass.
 

A330Alex

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Joined
13 Feb 2019
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223
While we’re on the subject of the West Lothian routes. Does anyone think it will be long before something is done about Stop PQ on Princes Street? The Lothian Country routes that stop there take ages to load up.

Yesterday I got an X18 from there and while waiting on it the X28 arrived first. The X18 was directly behind it. By the time we left we were 7 minutes late, the bus having arrived at the stop on time. There was no congestion and this was around 13:30.

I personally don’t think it’s a good idea having all West Lothian bound buses and also the Queensferry Street services use the same stop. It’s too much now.

Ideally they need to make the Queensferry Street services stop at PP then anything currently stopping at PP would have to omit that stop and just stop at their respective stops at PR/PS/PT. They do the exact same with in the other direction with each bus only stopping up to 2 times. It’s about time this was simplified in the other direction as well.
It’s unfortunate that Lothian haven’t adopted tap-off readers for LCB/ECB. Obviously not a solution for all, but it eliminates the destination and physical ticket faff for your standard adult contactless journey.
 

Nawm8

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5 Jun 2019
Messages
35
Board at flag works and removing it is asking for a massive culture change from the travelling public in Edinburgh, and not to mention it leaves disabled passengers at a disadvantage as mentioned before.

The stops and stopping patterns need reassessed and adjusted.

I would put delays in boarding onto contactless payments made by mobiles and the Wayfarer machines that Lothian use being slow at processing Young Scot concession cards, this is my own anecdotal experience as a driver however.
 

Bus9120UK

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5 Oct 2019
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Edinburgh
New Lothian official fleet list confirms 932-936 will transfer to Livingston. Buses 591/4 are the two B5LH Gemini 2 hybrids still with Lothian. 1002 has just moved back to Longstone.
 
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davp

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5 Jun 2015
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13
Board at flag works and removing it is asking for a massive culture change from the travelling public in Edinburgh, and not to mention it leaves disabled passengers at a disadvantage as mentioned before.

The stops and stopping patterns need reassessed and adjusted.

I would put delays in boarding onto contactless payments made by mobiles and the Wayfarer machines that Lothian use being slow at processing Young Scot concession cards, this is my own anecdotal experience as a driver however.
Board at flag magnifies problems caused by slow payments. Flat fare contactless / Ridacard only must be worth a go. It works in London, and if the £2 flat fare is getting people out of their cars in England it might do the same in West Lothian.
 

Bus9120UK

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Do we know who purchased 592/3?
The following advert was put out from Birmingham Busworks with two B5LH Gemini 2 vehicles being marked as 'coming soon' - the image being the same one used by Lothian when they were selling them. It would be safe to assume it is them who have them / will soon have them.

image0.png
 

GusB

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Elginshire
Just a quick reminder: when referring to an external sites, social media posts, etc., make sure that you provide a direct link to that source. If it's a news story, please also ensure that a relevant quote is included and the copied text is enclosed within quote tags.

Thanks :)
 
Joined
29 Nov 2018
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626
I think if one was made Lothian would decide to use it themselves anyway.
It's true that passengers dislike mid-journey driver changeovers and CEC (City of Edinburgh Council) are discouraging operators from running cross-town routes. But Lothian have few services terminating in the city centre at the moment and there was little enthusiasm from them to operate from either the old or new bus stations in St Andrew Square. They already have a depot on Annandale Street so I'm not convinced it's a given that they'd fork out departure fees for use of another bus station.
 

CN04NRJ

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New Lothian official fleet list confirms 932-936 will transfer to Livingston. Buses 591/4 are the two B5LH Gemini 2 hybrids still with Lothian. 1002 has just moved back to Longstone.

1000 is at Central, whether this is temporary I don't know as it's moved around alot in the last few months - it was out on an 11 today.
 

Bus9120UK

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1000 is at Central, whether this is temporary I don't know as it's moved around alot in the last few months - it was out on an 11 today.
It was intentionally taken off a 5 earlier and moved to Central - then back to Marine, then back to Central again.. Does look intentional but as you say it isn't known if it's temporary or not.
 

R Scandle

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Joined
23 Jul 2019
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18
I think if one was made Lothian would decide to use it themselves anyway.
They charge operators to use the current bus station. Why would LB choose to do so at a new facility. They already have facilities for drivers at Shandwick Place and Waverley Bridge.
 

LiviCrazy

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6 Oct 2018
Messages
325
I’ve said this previously, but I’ve thought for a long time that they should build some simple drive through bus stances on top of the Waverley Centre.

The other thought would be could they not create an additional stop between the pedestrian crossing and where the trams come down or right at the end of Waverley Bridge if that is a permanent closure?
 
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Darklord8899

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6 Jul 2018
Messages
680
In many German cities (and in Austria as well) in city centres and busy locations or transfer points, they have what are called "Doppelhaltesstelle" (double stops) which are identified by 'HH' signs rather than the usual 'H' sign. These stops allow two loading points at one stop.

Something like that might be a possible answer
 

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