Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[stevenedin]

As you say, there are many factors here for speculation.

Prior to setting up the Livingston depot, Lothian ran their 43 from Central using green buses and premium fares while the 63 (predecessor to 71) ran from Longstone with red buses and standard 'city' fares. Although the latter has always been a council contract so Lothian don't have a free choice with the fares.

Lots of different ways of cutting the cloth but nothing is ideal. Using Livingston as a base for the 43 might better reflect passenger flows. But of course running light from/to Livingston won't be much cheaper than empty in-service journeys from/to Central. Changing drivers at Regent Road may not be great for Central staff either. Suppose they could move the terminus to Elm Row or Waverley Bridge instead however I can't see there's a great deal to gain.

Central tend to change drivers at odd places at the moment like Princes Street, Queensferry Street, Lothian Road and Shandwick Place so I can't see Waterloo Place being a problem.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Central tend to change drivers at odd places at the moment like Princes Street, Queensferry Street, Lothian Road and Shandwick Place so I can't see Waterloo Place being a problem.

Central drivers change there because of the ColleagueHub that is in use above the TravelHub on Shandwick Place. The vast majority of Central drivers have their breaks there.

If the 43 were ever to return to Central, it likely would change drivers at Drumsheugh, just like the 37.

 

[FP transport v]

Central drivers change there because of the ColleagueHub that is in use above the TravelHub on Shandwick Place. The vast majority of Central drivers have their breaks there.

I knew the ColleagueHub existed but I've always wondered if drivers are able to sign on there at the very start of their shift or if it's just like a rest/break area for mid points on shifts before going onto their second half?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I knew the ColleagueHub existed but I've always wondered if drivers are able to sign on there at the very start of their shift or if it's just like a rest/break area for mid points on shifts before going onto their second half?

A bit of both. Some shifts start or end at the depot, some at the ColleagueHub.

 

[90019]

Wasn't there a time a few years back when the 43 was operated by green buses but showing Lothian Buses as the registered owner rather than Lothian Country and was registered with the authorities as a main Lothian Buses service? During this time a madder bus was occasionally used on the 43 without showing "On hire to Lothian Country" on the windscreen.

When the 43 first started up in 2017 it ran from Central using 928-936 and was driven by single deck drivers.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Have 951-960 moved to Central?

 

[FP transport v]

Have 951-960 moved to Central?

If you're referring to the ones on the 7 then no, marine now have a few boards on the 7 on Sundays

 

[ScotRail158725]

Have 951-960 moved to Central?

no the 7 has 3 marine boards on a sunday

 

[VioletEclipse]

no the 7 has 3 marine boards on a sunday

thanks for saying!

 

[Siemens Trains]

If the 43 were ever to return to Central, it likely would change drivers at Drumsheugh, just like the 37.

Given that it's a few minutes from the terminus this sounds like a good enough reason to avoid moving the resources to Central!

At the other end of the route driver changeover used to occur at Ferrymuir, which wasn't quite so daft. However changes were sensibly moved to Borrowman Square a few years back.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Given that it's a few minutes from the terminus this sounds like a good enough reason to avoid moving the resources to Central!

At the other end of the route driver changeover used to occur at Ferrymuir, which wasn't quite so daft. However changes were sensibly moved to Borrowman Square a few years back.

It must be easier having driver changeovers in Queensferry for that regard as I assume they do the same for the 71, unless the driver changeover is somewhere else on route due to the split between services.

While I get the arguement for the 43,70/71 going to Lothian, the fact is, they are established Lothian Country routes and they work for what they are, and having a strong West Edinburgh network should be a priority, plus eliminating these routes would eliminate the City west Zone which in turn would eliminate cheaper tickets to/from West Lothian for those in that part of the city.

As long as Lothian keep up the standards, it shouldn't matter, however it does beg the question if the services are well used.

I hear the 71 does well, but what about the new X19?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Given that it's a few minutes from the terminus this sounds like a good enough reason to avoid moving the resources to Central!

Both the 15 and 22 used to have something similar when they terminated at Regent Road. There are plenty of routes that changeover just before the terminus.

Going on that logic, most Longstone routes shouldn’t be run from there as they’re close to their termini. The 3, 25, 30, 33, 34 and 35 all having the same problem. The 19 at Marine being close to Eastfield would be much the same.

 

[cam22]

I’ve only used the 43 a couple since the £2 fare was introduced. Anyone know if you still have to state your destination to the driver or can you just tap and walk on? When first introduced I seemed to think they still wanted you to say where you were going but recently I’ve said it and felt that the driver wasn’t really bothered anymore? I’ll need to ask one next time I board a 43!

 

[FP transport v]

As far as I'm aware you no longer need to state your destination on the 43.

 

[VioletEclipse]

As far as I'm aware you no longer need to state your destination on the 43.

Folk from elsewhere are often surprised that you don't need to state your destination within the city. However there are occasions where having that custom here would still be useful, as there are a number of occasions where I've witnessed someone on a service 21, 35, 38 or similar expect it to go to Princes Street because most routes do.

 

[stevenedin]

I notice an awful lot of people getting on the X27 and X28 and putting their ridacard on the machine and not saying anything. It's great that people are using these within Edinburgh as it adds to the argument to keep them running but I can see some drivers getting angry at times even if you get on within Edinburgh heading to a destination within Edinburgh.

The trouble is that people use them as Lothian don't provide express services for journeys that take ages on normal routes.

 

[Siemens Trains]

As far as I'm aware you no longer need to state your destination on the 43.

Correct if buying a daytime single ticket, but of course passengers must still state destinations on the N43 service.

There's no law against silently presenting a card or phone on the reader, similar to alighting from the front door without any acknowledgement to the driver. But it seems a bit more polite and can be helpful in cases when a route is diverted or the display shows an incorrect number/destination.

 

[mb88]

I notice an awful lot of people getting on the X27 and X28 and putting their ridacard on the machine and not saying anything. It's great that people are using these within Edinburgh as it adds to the argument to keep them running but I can see some drivers getting angry at times even if you get on within Edinburgh heading to a destination within Edinburgh.

Yes and then they look at the driver with complete bewilderment at being asked where they’re going as if it’s some sort of trick question and/or none of the driver’s business. I really think more needs to be done to publicise the validity of ridacards on Country and East Coast services.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I notice an awful lot of people getting on the X27 and X28 and putting their ridacard on the machine and not saying anything. It's great that people are using these within Edinburgh as it adds to the argument to keep them running but I can see some drivers getting angry at times even if you get on within Edinburgh heading to a destination within Edinburgh.

The trouble is that people use them as Lothian don't provide express services for journeys that take ages on normal routes.

I do get puzzled at the admittedly rare occasion where if you’re Edinburgh bound within an area that the ridacard is valid and they ask you your destination. I guess it’s just a habit if anything. In these cases I never say my destination as it shouldn’t matter. It’s valid for the remainder of the journey no matter how far.

For clarification on the 43, 70 and 71 the driver does not need to manually approve a ridacard. Instead it’s done automatically as again, it’s valid everywhere.

 

[Siemens Trains]

they ask you your destination. I guess it’s just a habit if anything. In these cases I never say my destination as it shouldn’t matter.

Passengers like this should be thrown off instantly in my opinion, on the grounds that nobody likes a clever dick.

Sometimes there may be a reason to ask that isn't obvious to the passenger at the time. For example ensuring people are aware that a limited stop service won't observe the stop they want.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Passengers like this should be thrown off instantly in my opinion, on the grounds that nobody likes a clever dick.

Sometimes there may be a reason to ask that isn't obvious to the passenger at the time. For example ensuring people are aware that a limited stop service won't observe the stop they want.

To be fair almost nobody states their destination in that direction if it’s reached the city. It’s common sense not to in my opinion. Just slows down boarding for no real reason.

For the rare occasion where the driver for some reason still asks, I just politely say ‘it’s in the city now’ or words of that effect and they usually just respond with a ‘ah yeah you’re right sorry’ or something to that effect. When the rare occasion like above does occur, they’ve simply forgot and it’s just a very easy mistake when you’re used to a constant routine. Ultimately it’s in everyone’s interest to reach the destination quicker and in my view any time back in the drivers schedule is a win for everyone. My friend who drives for Country said certainly he would prefer people just got on. He’s not bothered in the slightest where they’re going as he knows it’s valid regardless.

The one part I can’t understand is why on ECB in any zone, manual approval isn’t needed, while on LC it’s needed in all zones. Surely both should be manual approval except where citybound in a ridacard zone?

 

[stevenedin]

I always say where I'm going jisy to speed up boarding and to avoid any conflict. The system does need to be improved though and it should change to just accepting a ridacard if the rest of the journey is within Edinburgh.

Heading west it will still need to be asked understandably.

 

[GusB]

Passengers like this should be thrown off instantly in my opinion, on the grounds that nobody likes a clever dick.

This is a silly statement. You're proposing that someone should be thrown off a bus for simply being unfamiliar with how things work?

 

[R Scandle]

Why are you all such pedants, when someone says 95% it doesn’t mean they asked every single driver and publishes a study on it, mostly it means I talked to 10-20 people and almost all said they preferred the B5

You can't just go bandying figures about without evidence to back it up. No more than pointless, end of the platform, wibble in that case.

 

[Siemens Trains]

This is a silly statement. You're proposing that someone should be thrown off a bus for simply being unfamiliar with how things work?

It's an exaggeration, but the case in question refers to passengers being a bit too familiar with how things work. As @stevenedin suggests above, if passengers know where they're going, perhaps they should just say when asked rather than disputing the question's relevance.

Anyway, having experienced tap-on tap-off in a couple of cities recently I'm glad we don't have such an arrangement around Edinburgh. It's nearly as tedious as alighting passengers staying seated until the vehicle has stopped.

 

[stevenedin]

I just saw the Airlink with changing screen saying Express 24/7 looks like the start of them ramping up the bus war.

 

[InOban]

I just saw the Airlink with changing screen saying Express 24/7 looks like the start of them ramping up the bus war.

Are they planning to operate 24/7? I thought they didn't ATM

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Are they planning to operate 24/7? I thought they didn't ATM

Airlink is a 24/7 service.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

It's an exaggeration, but the case in question refers to passengers being a bit too familiar with how things work. As @stevenedin suggests above, if passengers know where they're going, perhaps they should just say when asked rather than disputing the question's relevance.

The question of destination is absolutely irrelevant though. There is absolutely no reason to ask other than as I say, an obvious mistake/habit.

 

[InOban]

Airlink is a 24/7 service.

my bad. I thought that the OP was referring to Brightbus services.