LSL running (and WCR try to run) mainline 'extras' this week on behalf of Avanti West Coast

[Shotton]

Travelled on the 16:21 from Manchester as far as Crewe today. Fabulous experience, incredibly comfortable and the buffet was open and serving - unfortunately none of the available sandwiches satisfied my fussy palette. I also took a video of the train departing Crewe, but this is too large to upload.

The only negative was, the train was incredibly lightly loaded, presumably because of lack of advertising - the Avanti train departing at 16:12 from Manchester left with at least one person standing in the vestibule.

 

[route101]

Travelled on the 16:21 from Manchester as far as Crewe today. Fabulous experience, incredibly comfortable and the buffet was open and serving - unfortunately none of the available sandwiches satisfied my fussy palette. I also took a video of the train departing Crewe, but this is too large to upload.

The only negative was, the train was incredibly lightly loaded, presumably because of lack of advertising - the Avanti train departing at 16:12 from Manchester left with at least one person standing in the vestibule.

Would a Cheshire Rover be valid on this service?

 

[L401CJF]

Would a Cheshire Rover be valid on this service?

As it is advertised as an Avanti extra, I would imagine it is between Manchester and Crewe

 

[yorkie]

Would a Cheshire Rover be valid on this service?

A Cheshire Day Ranger is indeed valid

 

[Watershed]

Would a Cheshire Rover be valid on this service?

Yes, between Manchester and Crewe. It's an Avanti service for all ticketing purposes. Incidentally there were no checks being undertaken onboard when I used it today - but don't take that as a licence to do whatever you want!

 

[Bertie the bus]

Looking at RTT for the WCRC service it is all very confusing:

Fri

ECS from Carnforth – Lancaster

Lancaster – Euston

Euston – Crewe

Crewe – Euston

ECS to Acton Lane

ECS Back to Euston

Euston – Lancaster

ECS Lancaster – Carnforth arriving at Carnforth after Saturday’s ECS has departed

Sat

Lancaster – Euston

Euston – Crewe

Crewe – Euston

ECS to Acton Lane

ECS Back to Euston

Then nothing

Mon

As Friday

So are they using 2 sets of stock and if so where are they getting the additional AC electrics from? What happens to the stock after arriving at Euston on Saturday evening?

I’m not surprised Avanti aren’t promoting it. It doesn’t look like anybody knows what it is doing.

 

[43055]

Looking at RTT for the WCRC service it is all very confusing:

Fri

ECS from Carnforth – Lancaster

Lancaster – Euston

Euston – Crewe

Crewe – Euston

ECS to Acton Lane

ECS Back to Euston

Euston – Lancaster

ECS Lancaster – Carnforth arriving at Carnforth after Saturday’s ECS has departed

Sat

Lancaster – Euston

Euston – Crewe

Crewe – Euston

ECS to Acton Lane

ECS Back to Euston

Then nothing

Mon

As Friday

So are they using 2 sets of stock and if so where are they getting the additional AC electrics from? What happens to the stock after arriving at Euston on Saturday evening?

I’m not surprised Avanti aren’t promoting it. It doesn’t look like anybody knows what it is doing.

Possibly not all the data/paths are in the system yet. When I looked yesterday evening some of the LSL Manchester services was not showing.

 

[sk688]

Was utterly bemused to see one call at Milton Keynes just now , before checking this thread. Was completely announced at platforms, and had I not been going southbound, would have probably got on

 

[Bertie the bus]

Possibly not all the data/paths are in the system yet. When I looked yesterday evening some of the LSL Manchester services was not showing.

Unlike the LSL services from Manchester there is nothing showing on NRES for the service from Lancaster tomorrow or Saturday either. You would hope if they are running they would have at least confirmed tomorrow's by now.

 

[matt]

Unlike the LSL services from Manchester there is nothing showing on NRES for the service from Lancaster tomorrow or Saturday either. You would hope if they are running they would have at least confirmed tomorrow's by now.

I don't think they are running any more.

 

[hexagon789]

I don't think they are running any more.

The WCRC turn has indeed been cancelled throughout.

 

[galwhv69]

Trying to get the 1040 from Euston on Saturday to show but cant figure out why its not. What website will be able to sell me a ticket for that service please?

 

[Bertie the bus]

The WCRC turn has indeed been cancelled throughout.

The Daily Telegraph is reporting they haven't. It says Avanti failed but Network Rail have stepped in and are hopeful they will run.

Edit: Added link (behind paywall)

Old-fashioned slam-door trains to be brought back into service to ferry thousands to Queen Elizabeth’s funeral

Unprecedented intervention comes amid west coast train operator Avanti's long-running row with unions

www.telegraph.co.uk

Relevant bit:

Industry sources said that although Avanti has subsequently agreed with one specialist train company - Locomotive Services Limited (LSL) - to run one extra daily service before the funeral, talks with WCR collapsed, prompting Network Rail to step in.

WCR was unable to meet Avanti’s safety requirements in relation to the slam doors, sources added. However, the Cairnforth-based charter company was able to satisfy the requirements of Network Rail. "The rules are more than an artform than science," said one person with knowledge of discussions.

A daily WCR service is scheduled to run from Lancaster and Preston to the capital, carrying an estimated additional 500 passengers-a-day under plans being finalised on Thursday evening, sources said.

 

[hexagon789]

The Daily Telegraph is reporting they haven't. It says Avanti failed but Network Rail have stepped in and are hopeful they will run.

I see, it's all very confusing.

One source says its on, one source it's off. Then the source that said it was on says it's off, while a third source says it's on!

The source which said it was off, said it was because of Network Rail that it was cancelled. Due to stock compliance issues.

 

[Trackman]

Seen posts on FB/Twitter etc., drop lights have a laminated sign saying 'Avanti West Coast capacity train'.
How are these services announced or indeed what do they say on departure boards to stop confusion?

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder, when referring to any external source (e.g. newspapers, press releases, social media), please provide a link and quote, along with your comment. Many thanks

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I see, it's all very confusing.

One source says its on, one source it's off. Then the source that said it was on says it's off, while a third source says it's on!

The source which said it was off, said it was because of Network Rail that it was cancelled. Due to stock compliance issues.

Slam doors and drop lights are a very touchy subject these days….

 

[Watershed]

Seen posts on FB/Twitter etc., drop lights have a laminated sign saying 'Avanti West Coast capacity train'.
How are these services announced or indeed what do they say on departure boards to stop confusion?

Station CISs display the services variously as operated by Avanti or LSL. There are manual announcements at most stations informing passengers that it's a relief train to London, and there are stewards at most vestibules to help direct passengers.

 

[kingqueen]

Are the LSL or WCR coaches NTSN-PRM compliant?
Reports vary. LSL said on Twitter that they are,

Hi Ann yes the train has wheelchair spaces, accessible toilet and priority seats located near the accessible toilet

But their website says they're not:

Unfortunately, our heritage carriages don’t allow for wheelchair boarding.

Similarly a disabled person on Twitter claims to have been unable to board due to non- compliance.
My understanding is that these are First Class only Mark 3s. The only PRM compliant First Class Mark 3s I'm aware of are in use on CrossCountry HSTs; don't all the others have an apology of a wheelchair space, a 56-63cm doorway to reach it and no UAT?
If they aren't NTSN-PRM compliant, how are Avanti meeting their licensing requirements in this respect?
Similarly Network Rail and their WCR charters.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The only outcome of fighting this is withdrawal. This would be worse for ambulant disabled, e.g. the many elderly people coming to pay respects. Thus, to me this is not one to fight.

 

[Bantamzen]

This extract from an e-mail sent to me a short while ago from someone boarding today's extra at Crewe for Manchester probably won't surprise anyone who is watching Avanti at the moment:

I realise that the staff are in dispute, but blatantly misleading a passenger is beyond the pale. It only hurts the cause of the unions, because any sympathy towards their cause is undermined by stuff like this.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

I realise that the staff are in dispute, but blatantly misleading a passenger is beyond the pale. It only hurts the cause of the unions, because any sympathy towards their cause is undermined by stuff like this.

Sooner they go into OLR the better.

 

[irish_rail]

The only outcome of fighting this is withdrawal. This would be worse for ambulant disabled, e.g. the many elderly people coming to pay respects. Thus, to me this is not one to fight.

AGREED. It only takes one person to get on their high horse and they ruin it for everyone else , disabled or able bodied.

 

[Watershed]

Are the LSL or WCR coaches NTSN-PRM compliant?
Reports vary. LSL said on Twitter that they are,

But their website says they're not:

Similarly a disabled person on Twitter claims to have been unable to board due to non- compliance.
My understanding is that these are First Class only Mark 3s. The only PRM compliant First Class Mark 3s I'm aware of are in use on CrossCountry HSTs; don't all the others have an apology of a wheelchair space, a 56-63cm doorway to reach it and no UAT?
If they aren't NTSN-PRM compliant, how are Avanti meeting their licensing requirements in this respect?
Similarly Network Rail and their WCR charters.

They are not fully PRM compliant. LSL are operating these trains under their own licence; similarly with WCR. I understand that LSL have an exemption/dispensation, but that this was the sticking point for WCRC's services running.

That being said, it would be in no-one's interest for these trains to be cancelled. If they don't run, the chances of a person with a disability being physically unable to board a Pendolino are increased. This is clearly a very short term solution and I cannot see any other stock that could feasibly be brought into service at such short notice.

This has shades of PRM replacement buses all over again...

 

[TST2022]

It's ga MK3s right?

 

[hexagon789]

It's ga MK3s right?

The FOs and TSOB are yes, not sure about the DVT.

 

[357]

It's ga MK3s right?

On LSL services, yes.

 

[kingqueen]

Looking at Greater Anglia's DPPP it looks like LSL's tweet claiming accessibility of the stock may be right.

London – Norwich Cl. 90 with mk3 coaches spaces are in First Class so standard ticket holders will receive a free upgrade ... Is there a wheelchair accessible toilet? Yes

Which makes me wonder why their website says No, and why that disabled passenger was unable to travel.

 

[357]

and why that disabled passenger was unable to travel.

We do not know that "Jarley on Strike" is talking about a real incident. That poster has a habit of making up theoretical scenarios on Twitter.

 

[kingqueen]

Indeed, it turns out that it is accessible, as confirmed by Avanti on Twitter:

Hey Doug, apologies for the delayed response to this. These trains do indeed have wheelchair spaces on them, there are three and they are located in Coach F near to the accessible toilet - Lauren