Luggage Storage On Trains

[Townsend Hook]

Not just me that ends up putting up/taking down shed loads of bags then. And EMT really need to give there's a clean a bit more frequently - plenty of tickets, receipts, fluff and similar at the back of them sometimes.

One of the Northern wrecks I had to travel on a couple of years ago (when returning from Manchester Airport via Preston) had one redeeming feature - an absolute shed loads of storage space on it (I reckon you could have got a row of 20 suitcases in there) - the drafts, filthy seats, leaking windows and general feeling of decay were less good of course. Not sure if there were intentionally that much luggage space or just a lack of seats to fit in it?

Could referring to one of the handful of class 323s specced for airport services, but which ended up just being used in a common pool with the rest of the Manchester fleet of 323s.

 

[kevjs]

Could referring to one of the handful of class 323s specced for airport services, but which ended up just being used in a common pool with the rest of the Manchester fleet of 323s.

Can't be a 323 as the line from Preston wasn't electrified back then - think it had end gangways too (some form of Sprinter I think).

 

[SwindonBert]

As someone who has just returned from Devon using Cross Country I find the relatively small amount of luggage space is a real issue, it's a rather popular route for holiday makers & thus large bags.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can't be a 323 as the line from Preston wasn't electrified back then - think it had end gangways too (some form of Sprinter I think).

156 probably, they have a traditional van/parcels area which can fit about 6-8 bikes and a massive stack of bags.

 

[6Gman]

As someone who has just returned from Devon using Cross Country I find the relatively small amount of luggage space is a real issue, it's a rather popular route for holiday makers & thus large bags.

But Voyagers are also used, for example, between Birmingham and Manchester where many passengers have just a briefcase or a couple of shopping bags. More luggage space = fewer seats.

"I had to stand, and there were empty luggage racks everywhere"

 

[Bletchleyite]

But Voyagers are also used, for example, between Birmingham and Manchester where many passengers have just a briefcase or a couple of shopping bags. More luggage space = fewer seats.

"I had to stand, and there were empty luggage racks everywhere"

That is only partially true. The problem with luggage space on Voyagers (and Turbo/Electrostars) is that atrocious design of the overhead luggage rack means you can barely put anything more than a coat or handbag on it.

This is much less of a problem on stock with properly designed overhead racks such as Desiros, Pendolinos and older stock.

When they are refurbished, the Voyagers sorely need the rack removing and replacing with a design that will at least take an IATA 56x45x25cm carry-on, as do the 170s. The design used in ScotRail Turbostar First Class (but ridiculously not Standard) seems to do the job.

 

[Ash Bridge]

That is only partially true. The problem with luggage space on Voyagers (and Turbo/Electrostars) is that atrocious design of the overhead luggage rack means you can barely put anything more than a coat or handbag on it.

This is much less of a problem on stock with properly designed overhead racks such as Desiros, Pendolinos and older stock.

When they are refurbished, the Voyagers sorely need the rack removing and replacing with a design that will at least take an IATA 56x45x25cm carry-on, as do the 170s. The design used in ScotRail Turbostar First Class (but ridiculously not Standard) seems to do the job.

Exactly that Neil, the mk2 stock they replaced on XC services not only had properly designed overhead storage but also space behind every set of table seats for a fair sized suitcase, and that's before even mentioning the racks provided in the middle of the seating areas.

 

[Taunton]

I used PLA (Passenger Luggage in Advance) many years ago ... Would be even less impressed if, for example, I turned up for my Cornish holiday and my case didn't ...

Gerry Fiennes, in "I tried to run a railway", had a marvellous story from late 1940s LNER days about a whole bogie van of PLA which went missing one August weekend on its way to a resort. After a multitude of telegrams a REWARD of £5 (more than a week's wages then) was offered systemwide for finding it. A shunter found it in an obscure siding and got the reward. Fiennes worked out later that he had probably had it shunted there himself

 

[JamesP]

156 probably, they have a traditional van/parcels area which can fit about 6-8 bikes and a massive stack of bags.

The 150 I was on this morning had the end third of one of the coaches configured in that way.

 

[adamello]

i find it shocking that services that stop at airports - Southern for example. have frankly a pathetic facility for luggage storage

 

[route:oxford]

space behind every set of table seats for a fair sized suitcase.

A traditional flat suitcase. Modern 4-wheeled hold luggage just doesn't fit.

 

[_Morsey_]

Whenever I travel between Sheffield and Manchester these days, i'll purposely buy a first class ticket (usually bought weeks in advance so fairly cheap), because it's the only way i've managed to guarantee myself luggage space with a seat when travelling to and from university. Most times before that, i'd find myself stuck in the vestibule/entrance next to the doors.

Likewise, as another person said about planning, I used to change at Stockport to catch my ATW service down to West Wales, but now I purposely go through to Manchester and get on the ATW service there since that's where the service starts. Thus, rather than trying to shuffle onto a train quickly during a stop and have it be a luck of the draw for the carriage that I get on, getting on the service at the start station gives me time to find luggage space and a decent seat. Obviously not something most people can do, but for the extra 10-15 minutes it's worth it.

 

[BurtonM]

i find it shocking that services that stop at airports - Southern for example. have frankly a pathetic facility for luggage storage

Better example, TPE. People regularly block or partially block the doors with oversize cases.
The 185 is awful for luggage - hardly any suitcase storage, and what racks there are by the vestibules and (pathetic excuse for) cycle storage. These always spill over into the vestibule and cycle storage areas, just wasting everyone's space, and making it a real pain to get my bike on the train (assuming there's nobody sat there ).

 

[me123]

When they are refurbished, the Voyagers sorely need the rack removing and replacing with a design that will at least take an IATA 56x45x25cm carry-on, as do the 170s. The design used in ScotRail Turbostar First Class (but ridiculously not Standard) seems to do the job.

Taken my suitcase (that is bang on IATA size) onto Scotrail 170s on many occasions. They do fit into the overhead rack - only just but they fit.

I will whole-heartedly support any motion that future rolling stock orders specify overhead luggage racks that can take an IATA size case. It's pretty much standardised in the airline industry and luggage manufacturers now build carry-on suitcases to that standard, so it's logical that the same standard be applied on the railways.

 

[Hartington]

Going back to the Japanese system it is basically a parcel delivery system (I think there are two companies). I found that many Japanese people travelling in Japan would buy something and the shop would package it beautifully (almost everything is beautifully packaged, even a small item) and then package it again in more mundane paper so that it could be sent home rather than having to carry it. The ability to send a suitcase is a side effect. That said it works very well and we took to repacking our two suitcases so that we could share one and send the other ahead (full of dirty washing a lot of the time!). The service is usually overnight but there were a couple of occasions where it took two nights.

On a different subject I was in Italy last week. Used trains Pisa/Florence/Siena/ Empoli/Pisa. Pisa/Florence was a double decker and if there was any luggage space we didn't find it. The remaining trips were on various single deck trains and they had VERY substantial overhead luggage racks. Provided you are strong enough a full size suitcase will fit.

Back at Reading on bank holiday Sunday we were lucky to find space in an HST luggage stack!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Going back to the Japanese system it is basically a parcel delivery system (I think there are two companies). I found that many Japanese people travelling in Japan would buy something and the shop would package it beautifully (almost everything is beautifully packaged, even a small item) and then package it again in more mundane paper so that it could be sent home rather than having to carry it. The ability to send a suitcase is a side effect. That said it works very well and we took to repacking our two suitcases so that we could share one and send the other ahead (full of dirty washing a lot of the time!). The service is usually overnight but there were a couple of occasions where it took two nights.

Was it then Japan's equivalent of what was Red* in the UK?

 

[theageofthetra]

Was it then Japan's equivalent of what was Red* in the UK?

Not really. The Takuhaibin service was only started in the mid 70's as before that the post office had a monopoly on deliveries. The deliveries as far as I am aware are all done via scooters and small (<1ton) trucks & aircraft. I'll do some more digging to see if rail is used at all. To give an idea of the scale of the operation there is a drop off point for every 450 inhabitants!

 

[edwin_m]

Not really. The Takuhaibin service was only started in the mid 70's as before that the post office had a monopoly on deliveries. The deliveries as far as I am aware are all done via scooters and small (<1ton) trucks & aircraft. I'll do some more digging to see if rail is used at all. To give an idea of the scale of the operation there is a drop off point for every 450 inhabitants!

Perhaps one of the more reputable parcels delivery firms could look at starting a user-friendly luggage transfer service in the UK.

 

[route:oxford]

Perhaps one of the more reputable parcels delivery firms could look at starting a user-friendly luggage transfer service in the UK.

Why do something new when an essentially identical service is already available throughout the country?

Fill a suitable container with clothes up to 10Kg.

Go round to your local corner shop, pay £8.39, collect at your choice of convenient corner shop 2 days later.

 

[urbophile]

On a different subject I was in Italy last week. Used trains Pisa/Florence/Siena/ Empoli/Pisa. Pisa/Florence was a double decker and if there was any luggage space we didn't find it. The remaining trips were on various single deck trains and they had VERY substantial overhead luggage racks. Provided you are strong enough a full size suitcase will fit.

Traditional compartment stock in Italy (still very common) has humongous overhead racks for correspondently humongous luggage. But for those of us who are muscularly or vertically challenged, the effort of getting things up there, and down again, is either impossible or not worth it. Hence there is as much luggage on and between seats, or in the corridors, as on the racks.

 

[Taunton]

I was recently in a Class 170 of Scotrail. Compared to some other operators, it had nice seats in bays which lined up with the windows, on a notably short run. But what struck me was how the interior designers had seemingly gone out of their way to avoid the old luggage space behind the seats traditionally associated with this layout, particularly in Mk 2. Mid-saloon large luggage racks instead of seats, litter bins (completely unused) in the underseat space, and elements of the vehicle's mechanical aspects placed under there as well, all conspired to minimise the ability to put luggage there.

 

[trainophile]

I have gone back to backpacks, after a few years of using small trolley cases. The main reason is because it is easier to stow a backpack, either on the overhead racks or pushed under my seat.

It certainly concentrates my mind on what I actually need to take, but it does mean aching shoulders the next day. An added bonus is I can load myself up and be off the train while other people are faffing around with piles of suitcases.

 

[BestWestern]

Better example, TPE. People regularly block or partially block the doors with oversize cases.
The 185 is awful for luggage - hardly any suitcase storage, and what racks there are by the vestibules and (pathetic excuse for) cycle storage. These always spill over into the vestibule and cycle storage areas, just wasting everyone's space, and making it a real pain to get my bike on the train (assuming there's nobody sat there ).

That appears to be a standard Desiro feature. The 444s, which operate from London to the popular resorts of Bournemouth & Weymouth, also have effectively zero lugggage space, despite having an 'express' arrangement with end doors. They could, and should, easily have been specced with luggage stacks bolted instead of seats at strategic locations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That appears to be a standard Desiro feature. The 444s, which operate from London to the popular resorts of Bournemouth & Weymouth, also have effectively zero lugggage space, despite having an 'express' arrangement with end doors. They could, and should, easily have been specced with luggage stacks bolted instead of seats at strategic locations.

All Desiros have massive overhead racks which easily take my largest check-in trolley case. It just requires people to use them, and people to assist other people in using them if they can't themselves, and for those who can't to take up that assistance. And as with air travel practice, when travelling as a family to take one small case each instead of a large one for everyone, so they are easier to put up.

Crikey, even Pendolino racks fit my 75 litre rucksack, and they're nice and low too. It's only Bombardier products (all of them) that have inadequate racks.

 

[BestWestern]

All Desiros have massive overhead racks which easily take my largest check-in trolley case. It just requires people to use them, and people to assist other people in using them if they can't themselves, and for those who can't to take up that assistance. And as with air travel practice, when travelling as a family to take one small case each instead of a large one for everyone, so they are easier to put up.

Crikey, even Pendolino racks fit my 75 litre rucksack, and they're nice and low too. It's only Bombardier products (all of them) that have inadequate racks.

The issue is that people going to popular seaside resorts tend to travel with more than just a 'sensible traveller' sized suitcase each!

 

[Greenback]

Plus, those who are flying long haul or going on a cruise will almost always take big items of luggage. Some seem to think that it's compulsory, when flying, to take the largest and heaviest bag that confomrs to the airlines rules.

These are simply too heavy to lift up on to overhead racks, and I don't think it;s unreasonable for those that may be infrequent rail travellers to expect there to be storage facilities on the trains that will accommodate the bags they are going to be flying with.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Plus, those who are flying long haul or going on a cruise will almost always take big items of luggage. Some seem to think that it's compulsory, when flying, to take the largest and heaviest bag that confomrs to the airlines rules.

It doesn't I suppose help that the airlines' charging mechanisms encourage a smaller number of larger bags when a larger number of smaller ones is invariably better for everyone.

These are simply too heavy to lift up on to overhead racks, and I don't think it;s unreasonable for those that may be infrequent rail travellers to expect there to be storage facilities on the trains that will accommodate the bags they are going to be flying with.

Within reason yes. I don't think any IATA trolley bags should be on the floor level racks, though - put them up. It's not hand luggage if you can't handle it (Or ask someone to help).

 

[trainophile]

It doesn't I suppose help that the airlines' charging mechanisms encourage a smaller number of larger bags when a larger number of smaller ones is invariably better for everyone.



Within reason yes. I don't think any IATA trolley bags should be on the floor level racks, though - put them up. It's not hand luggage if you can't handle it (Or ask someone to help).

Another reason to retain the guards?

 

[HowardGWR]

Another reason to retain the guards?

Er, no, although cabin staff on planes do. They have to, as all luggage must be stowed. If every person on an Easyjet A320 were to carry a standard IATA case on board, it could not happen. When they have an overload of IATAs, like my wife and I often thriftily provide, many cases still have to go in the hold, although they do so free, so it's no big deal.

I agree with Neil_Williams that all train coaches should have enough above rack room for IATA cases. The SWT 158 /159s fail, just, at least unless you can shove with Tarzan arm-power.

By the way, welcome to the new Member Morsey (see above somewhere).

 

[trainophile]

Welcome Morsey, hope you make this forum your second home!

I hate it when someone next to me, or in the seat in front, shoves an obviously too big case on the overhead rack, half hanging over the edge. I always sit nervously expecting it to dislodge if the train is a bit bumpy and land on my head!

It amuses me sometimes to see someone vainly trying to force their luggage into a too small rack, when everyone can see it ain't going to go. That's when I will point out that there are spaces between the back-to-back seats.

Edited to bold the new member's name. Is this a railuk convention btw, or is there a particular reason for it? I've never come across it on any other site.

Sorry, back to topic...