Lumo - new Open Access operator on the East Coast Main Line

[Strat-tastic]

No, it's just wrong. The plug is the three pronged thing on the end of the flex.

Plugs are plugged into sockets. It's not rocket surgery.

What's rocket surgery?

 

[Ianno87]

The other advantage of filling their trains with cheap fares is that thousands of people will (they hope) realise that the train can be competitive on both price and journey time, and will not only travel again but tell some of their friends and relatives too how good it is.

And while looking for Lumo fares they may find some good value LNER ones too.

 

[py_megapixel]

Only on RUK does technical discussion of railway coupling systems take place on the same page as someone whinging about the name of a household electrical fixture (and the resultant debate)...

 

[357]

Totally unreliable and useless WiFi connection on LNER today between London and York. The train was rammed, which was probably why. It was impossible to work, even after bagging a table seat next to a window.

I use 4G, and find the ECML has reliable internet most of the way.

Last time I went from London to Edinburgh I was streaming YouTube for the entire journey without issue.

 

[greyman42]

The other advantage of filling their trains with cheap fares is that thousands of people will (they hope) realise that the train can be competitive on both price and journey time, and will not only travel again but tell some of their friends and relatives too how good it is.

Journey times have not changed, so unless you are saying that the passengers who buy cheap Lumo tickets did not realise what the journey times were before Lumo, then journey time is not going to attract new passengers.

 

[John R]

Journey times have not changed, so unless you are saying that the passengers who buy cheap Lumo tickets did not realise what the journey times were before Lumo, then journey time is not going to attract new passengers.

But some will have been attracted to Lumo given all the publicity and ultra cheap fares, and will be willing to give it a go despite their perception of longer journey times. And hopefully will realise that in fact there’s not much difference and their perception was wrong. And then will tell others.

 

[Ianno87]

But some will have been attracted to Lumo given all the publicity and ultra cheap fares, and will be willing to give it a go despite their perception of longer journey times. And hopefully will realise that in fact there’s not much difference and their perception was wrong. And then will tell others.

Exactly - Lumo have generated lots of publicity for themselves...which will lead to people having a look at what the fares offer is like.

My impression is that for London-Central Scotland, the natural preference for most is the train, but price (rather than journey time) is what, in the main, makes people choose air.

 

[pdeaves]

And while looking for Lumo fares they may find some good value LNER ones too.

True, and that helps the 'not primarily abstractive' thing - more passengers to the railway as a whole (everyone involved hopes...)

 

[Ianno87]

True, and that helps the 'not primarily abstractive' thing - more passengers to the railway as a whole (everyone involved hopes...)

That is certain a theory presented by John Nelson's book (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Losing-Track-Insiders-Britains-Transformation-ebook/dp/B07YYHF3Q9) - the effect of Open Access operators in the long run is growing the overall market for rail (though that's difficult to forecast beforehand).

 

[yorkie]

Only on RUK does technical discussion of railway coupling systems take place on the same page as someone whinging about the name of a household electrical fixture (and the resultant debate)...

If a discussion goes off topic, we are only likely to know about it if people report it. We ask that the first off topic post is reported (using the report link at the bottom of the post); if a list of any other following off topic post numbers can be included in the report, along with a suggested thread title, this maximises the chances of us being able to split the discussion into a new thread.

But we can avoid this if people can create a new thread when they want to go on a tangent please. Anyone doing this is very welcome to link to the new thread from an existing one, as appropriate.

 

[malc-c]

I'm sure its been discussed before, but is there a reason why only the second southbound service stops at Stevenage... Living in the town that makes booking tickets a pain as by the time you factor in the cost of a ticket for a GN service to Kings Cross it's not so cheap. Also it means booking two single tickets rather than a return as the return destination is different to the outbound...

 

[hexagon789]

I'm sure its been discussed before, but is there a reason why only the second southbound service stops at Stevenage... Living in the town that makes booking tickets a pain as by the time you factor in the cost of a ticket for a GN service to Kings Cross it's not so cheap. Also it means booking two single tickets rather than a return as the return destination is different to the outbound...

This is only their temporary timetable, another 3 trains each way commence early next year.

 

[Ianno87]

This is only their temporary timetable, another 3 trains each way commence early next year.

And it will be 2 northbound calls in the morning, and 2 southbound calls in the evening, quite well timed for Stevenage users.

 

[superalbs]

Is there any legible seating plan yet?

 

[Grumpy Git]

Lumo getting a pasting in the i newspaper today for misrepresenting the £19.90 offer, (P13).

Edit; the £19.90 fare is only available whilst more than 90% of the seats remain unsold, then it jumps to £69.00.

 

[Bald Rick]

If the easyJet flight was 93% full that might indicate quite healthy demand for the route in general

More of an indication of EasyJet’s yield mangagement systems.

If Lumo applied the same, they wouldn’t have sold out to December. Although I suspect their yield management is set to the ‘get customer base quickly’ setting.

 

[hexagon789]

Lumo getting a pasting in the i newspaper today for misrepresenting the £19.90 offer, (P13).

Why misrepresenting?

I had no trouble finding London/Edinburgh £19.90 fares in November when I looked earlier.

Is there any legible seating plan yet?

This any good:

 

[superalbs]

Why misrepresenting?

I had no trouble finding London/Edinburgh £19.90 fares in November when I looked earlier.

View attachment 104483


This any good:
View attachment 104484

You can just about see the numbers, but I'm not sure I've got it right. Really, for a company that operates a single type of train, you should be able to select your seat. Not like a 150 is going to turn up! Oh well, Trainsplit to the rescue again.

 

[XAM2175]

This any good:
View attachment 104484

Wait wait wait... are those window positions I see?

 

[hexagon789]

You can just about see the numbers, but I'm not sure I've got it right. Really, for a company that operates a single type of train, you should be able to select your seat. Not like a 150 is going to turn up! Oh well, Trainsplit to the rescue again.

56, 94, 94, 94 and 60 respectively fit seats, I presume that what's you meant?

Wait wait wait... are those window positions I see?

Yes

 

[dk1]

Lumo getting a pasting in the i newspaper today for misrepresenting the £19.90 offer, (P13).

Edit; the £19.90 fare is only available whilst more than 90% of the seats remain unsold, then it jumps to £69.00.

When anything seems too good to be true, then it usually is.

 

[Starmill]

Although I suspect their yield management is set to the ‘get customer base quickly’ setting.

They pretty much said as much themselves regarding their introductory offer.

Edit; the £19.90 fare is only available whilst more than 90% of the seats remain unsold, then it jumps to £69.00.

Worth noting that the £69 fare is actually available right up to departure.

 

[Roast Veg]

That is certain a theory presented by John Nelson's book (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Losing-Track-Insiders-Britains-Transformation-ebook/dp/B07YYHF3Q9) - the effect of Open Access operators in the long run is growing the overall market for rail (though that's difficult to forecast beforehand).

I'd like to see such forecasts applied to abstraction tests - or for abstraction tests to be adjusted only on "new branding" services.

 

[markindurham]

As an extreme example, I once took a Ryanair flight to "Oslo" which actually dumped me at an airport a vast distance from Oslo. The person next to me on the flight lived 5 miles from that airport though, so it was perfect for him

Ah yes, Sandefjord. I regularly fly to/from there (NOT with Ryanair) if joining/leaving a ship at Rafnes/Porsgrunn. But there IS a bus service to Oslo... It's about 55 miles to Oslo, as I recall. Pretty road, but the airport's not exactly <local> to Oslo!

Ryanair have "form" with that tactic though - always best to check before you book...

 

[Ianno87]

I'd like to see such forecasts applied to abstraction tests - or for abstraction tests to be adjusted only on "new branding" services.

That's the problem - doing accurately is pretty tough. "If we operate it, they will come" is hard to model in a spreadsheet.

 

[John R]

I see Doug Paulley has already complained to the ORR and is threatening legal action against them, because when he tried to book a wheelchair space from Newcastle to Morpeth on the first day and for some reason it’s been refused.

Nothing like trying to work constructively with a new provider before it’s even started to iron out any teething troubles.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You can just about see the numbers, but I'm not sure I've got it right. Really, for a company that operates a single type of train, you should be able to select your seat. Not like a 150 is going to turn up! Oh well, Trainsplit to the rescue again.

On easyJet, which operates one type of plane, you pay your fare and then select and pay for your seat on a sliding scale starting at £5.99 (for the rear seats).
That's the market Lumo claim to be aiming for.
You also pay extra for taking more than a handbag on board (ie no free overhead rack space).

 

[Ianno87]

I see Doug Paulley has already complained to the ORR and is threatening legal action against them, because when he tried to book a wheelchair space from Newcastle to Morpeth on the first day and for some reason it’s been refused.

Nothing like trying to work constructively with a new provider before it’s even started to iron out any teething troubles.

It sounds like there is (at least at present) no ability to book the wheelchair user space, with it operating on a first-come-first-served basis.

I presume, in the event of it being occupied on the day, the passenger would be entitled to either travel on the next available service of any operator (regardless of ticket held), or be provided with a taxi.

Whilst probably technically not illegal (given that loads of services operate on a first come first served basis), strikes me as poor for a long distance operator, where need for certainty of travel is high, especially with such limited space for wheelchair users on board.

 

[IslandDweller]

"On easyJet, which operates one type of plane"
Being pedantic, they operate three (very similar) types. The A319, the A320 and A321. Common certification for all models but they are different sizes. So on the odd occasion that they need to swap planes about, it needs a bit of adjustment for folk who paid extra for the mid-plane exit rows as these are in different rows, depending on the variant.
Akin to Avanti operating a fleet of Pendalinos, but those coming in 9 and 11 car versions.

 

[gallafent]

What's rocket surgery?

It's the other thing you can specialise in, apart from brain science.