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Luton-Dunstable

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E&W Lucas

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The line goes along the side of my next door neighbour's house. I realise that it would never be reinstated but it would nevertheless make an excellent narrow gauge tourist line between the edge of Harpenden and Luton Airport Parkway - plenty of nice scenery with Luton Hoo on the opposite side of the valley and the River Lea which has beren dammed to form artificial lakes in the grounds of Luton Hoo, and the "real" railway on the opposite side of the trackbed, and also visible from the B653. If I ever won Euro Millions,thats what I'd try to spend part of the money on particularly as there is a lack of reailway preservation sites in the area, apart from at Leighton Buzzard 20 odd miles away.

It goes right past a particularly smelly sewage works where you're describing!

I'd agree with the others suggesting that re -opening the railway would have made a lot more sense than the busway. The road between Dunstable & Luton gets very congested, and i suspect a good deal of that traffic is people driving to the station.
 
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jon0844

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What's wrong with a tram? Looks more like a train, runs more frequently and fits in around people nicely. It was a great way to get around in Dublin (and was being heavily used, like a tube train) and I can't see why you'd go through all the hassle of doing much the same work (bar the overhead wires) for a bus.
 

asylumxl

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What's wrong with a tram? Looks more like a train, runs more frequently and fits in around people nicely. It was a great way to get around in Dublin (and was being heavily used, like a tube train) and I can't see why you'd go through all the hassle of doing much the same work (bar the overhead wires) for a bus.

Cos the councils are stupid and cheap, and want to use the current bus depots rather than having to pay for a new depot.
 

Bedpan

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It goes right past a particularly smelly sewage works where you're describing!

What Asylumxl says is correct. In times gone by it was VERY smelly, but since they carried out improvement works a few years ago the smell has disappeared.
 

TukayAway

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It kills me that this scheme is going ahead. The people of Luton don't want it. The people of Dunstable don't want it. Almost every parliamentary candidate at the last election was against it and vowed to stop it.

If I had won a big jackpot on the Euromillions, I'd have re-opened as heavy rail with a station and passing loop at Chaul End Lane, simple platform at Bute Street and a park and ride next to the Dukeminster estate in Dunstable. With a half-hourly frequency and a couple of dmus, it would have cost the same as re-opening as the bus scheme. Plus if you ran a heritage service on Sundays and Bank Holidays, it would bring a bit of tourism to the area. Something that is severely lacking around here.

I do feel that the guided bus scheme will fall flat on it's arse after a few years, and a tram service could be installed instead.
 

A0wen

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It kills me that this scheme is going ahead. The people of Luton don't want it. The people of Dunstable don't want it. Almost every parliamentary candidate at the last election was against it and vowed to stop it.

If I had won a big jackpot on the Euromillions, I'd have re-opened as heavy rail with a station and passing loop at Chaul End Lane, simple platform at Bute Street and a park and ride next to the Dukeminster estate in Dunstable. With a half-hourly frequency and a couple of dmus, it would have cost the same as re-opening as the bus scheme. Plus if you ran a heritage service on Sundays and Bank Holidays, it would bring a bit of tourism to the area. Something that is severely lacking around here.

I do feel that the guided bus scheme will fall flat on it's arse after a few years, and a tram service could be installed instead.

Whilst Cambridge's busway has been fraught with problems, nobody has mentioned that Ipswich has had a length of guided busway for over 10 years which seems to have worked fairly well.

The Cambridge problems are probably down to the design and spec, but Ipswich did prove the concept can work.
 

asylumxl

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AOwen, I think you'll find alot of the objection is not down to the concept of busway, but more this particular implementation and the politics behind it.

The whole reason for the removal of the rail line was that as a busway, buses could avoid the congested roads towards Dunstable (e.g. Hatters Way). Unfortunately, the design the councils settled on doesn't avoid them, as buses will come off the busway onto the very roads it was supposed to avoid.

As far as the politics are concerned, the majority of people in Luton object to the idea and would prefer trains. Yet the council disregarded its constituents opinions entirely and pushed on with their Idiotic scheme. This isn't the first time LBC has done so either. This has left people with a very bad taste in their mouths.
 
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I thing I can answer the above concerns fairly easily.

The guided bus way remains extremely controversial. A Luton Lib Dems annual poll of 25,000 houses found 96% of hundreds of respondants were opposed to it.

http://www.lutonlibdems.org.uk/index.php/2010/09/96-say-no-to-busway/

In an article in the Dunstable Gazette the local Tory M.P. Andrew Selous revealed that he had been inundated with e-mails and letters opposing the guided bus way and only one person had written to him in favour of it.

http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/lut-news/Luton-Dunstable-Busway-contract-to.6461875.jp

Central Bedfordshire Unitary Council has only expressed corporate support for the guided bus way (despite Beds County Council withdrawing in 2004) because Luton Borough Council would have been allowed to go ahead regardless if they had opposed it, and they would have had zero control over implementation of it.

http://www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/modgov/mgAi.aspx?ID=15569
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Dual use solution to the Luton Dunstable disused railway corridor

http://south_bedfordshire_railway.webs.com/retainlutondunstable.htm

The basic concept is that the guided bus way would be curtailed along narrow stretches of the disused railway corridor (beside A5065 Hatters Way relief road) to allow the disused railway line to be retained.

The disused railway line would be deviated to run along additional areas of land acquired beside the old railway formation (used by the guided bus way), beside stretches of guided bus way (along the disused railway corridor) which provide bus - only links not provided by existing roads.

Buses from Houghton Regis and Dunstable to and from the guided bus way would feed passengers to and from the trains along the railway line.

This is also discussed at a Facebook group called 'South Bedfordshire Railway' which is at: -

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=101535814486
 
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tbtc

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Whilst Cambridge's busway has been fraught with problems, nobody has mentioned that Ipswich has had a length of guided busway for over 10 years which seems to have worked fairly well.

The Cambridge problems are probably down to the design and spec, but Ipswich did prove the concept can work.

They have worked well for a number of years in Leeds (Scot Hall Road and York Road) and Bradford (Manchester Road).

Edinburgh had one for a few years on part of the tram tracks (was always intended to be converted to tram at a later date).

The Edinburgh example shows that a concrete "busway" can be converted to a tram (or other rail-based scheme) once it has been up and running and proved to be a success.

Guided busways are still at a very early stage in development - I think once the Cambridge one has settled down we'll be able to assess them properly.

And, for anyone who says "the Cambridge scheme was late and hopelessly over budget" - I agree, but the same could be said of the WCML upgrade or any large-scale rail project too - it doesn't mean all railway investment should get a bad name.
 

LE Greys

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I'm sure I've said this before, but the one advantage of a guided busway is that it would be easier to electrify. Trolleybuses probably wouldn't be very popular in Cambridge, because the wires would not look good in the historic city. No offence to Luton, but I don't think they need to worry so much about that. What is more, I am sure that it is possible to share wires with trams. The biggest problem with trolleybuses is that they cannot overtake each other. On the plateway, there is no need to worry about that, or the possibility of the wires/supports affecting road traffic. Luton and Dunstable could be a pilot scheme, which might lead to expansion to other areas.
 

Waddon

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While on the subject of Luton, can anyone tell me anything about that new building that's been recently constructed next to the station, looks like a car park or something... because it appears to have been constructed with clearance underneath for rail lines, are they planning to rebuild the station and put one of the platforms underneath, or is this just to future-proof it in case they ever want more tracks, or what?

p.s. on a personal level, can I nominate Luton station as one of the grimmest railway stations on the whole network - what a dump!
 

jon0844

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I'm in Stockholm and since my last visit, they've built a new tram line in the city centre and the overhead wires are very thin and discreet. I doubt many people complained, especially given that public transport is so good (and running as normal, despite the heavy snow and -10C temperature).

I can't recall the wires looking that bad in Dublin either, so I am really not sure Cambridge could have used that as an excuse.
 

lancastrian

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Every time I read about the daft idea of ripping up a railway line and building a long distance busway, I always get the feeling that it will be a disaster. Yes I know there have been successful busways in anumber of towns, Leeds & ipswich to name a couple of them, but these have nearly always been for a short distance, often less than a mile and are split by road junctions.

The best form of long distance commutting is rail, either heavy rail, like the the line that was in place between Cambridge & St Ives (before the Cambrifgeshire guided busway fiasco) and the planned fiasco between Luton & Dunstable. Both of these two lines could have been electrified and intergrated with their local commuter lines.

The Luton to Dunstable line with the new Thameslink developments, giving much better oppotunities for travel, and the Cambridge to St Ives line, if exteneded to Huntindon, would not only have given a good relief route to the ECML, but again intigrated witht he West Anglia services.

If not the heavey rail concept then at least do it has a light rail system, which if set up correctly will beat a guided busway hands down. All that the pilliock politiacns needed to do was to see how well such systems work in Manchester, Sheffield, Nottingham & Croyden. All of which use prioritised street running.

Sad to say based on how well the Council has done in Cambridgeshire, where they also ignore what the public wanted, I mush assume that the Luton to Dunstable guided busway will be another total fiasco. It is about time we fetched in binding referendums into this country, as they have in Switzerland, then the option the public choose, is the one they get and the one they have to pay for. Descision as inportant as a decent transport system are FAR TO IMPORTANT to be left to short term looking politicans, who usually can only see as far as the next election, of what ever party.

Lets hope there is an outbreak of common sense in South Bedfordshire, but don't hold your breath.
 

Mojo

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Whilst Cambridge's busway has been fraught with problems, nobody has mentioned that Ipswich has had a length of guided busway for over 10 years which seems to have worked fairly well.

The Cambridge problems are probably down to the design and spec, but Ipswich did prove the concept can work.
I disagree, see here (you need to scroll upwards slightly). It seems to have been installed for the purpose of attempting to prove a concept rather than anything else. It seems to be suffering with reliability problems - with dissatisfied customers owing to the number of cancellations and infrequent service.
 
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