Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[LNW-GW Joint]

As far as I know Mk4 was never put up anywhere.
ECML is Mark 3 in its entirity.

In the list of OHLE types, that used for HS1 is conspicuously missing.
This was French LGV design I imagine, but is it recognised by NR as a UK type?
No doubt HS2 will use some derivative of this.

 

[L+Y]

Passed Roby today, and noticed the first mast bases have gone in. These are located between the Fast and Slow lines, which surprised me a little: I'd presumed it'd be "arch" designs all through the four track section.

As catenary is being discussed at the moment, may I ask as an interested layman: what are the technical terms for the kinds of catenary? I'd roughly describe what exists at the moment as L-shaped gantries, "arches", and "basic" catenary masts, but of course this is useless: can anybody clarify? Illustrations would be much appreciated.

 

[Bald Rick]

Passed Roby today, and noticed the first mast bases have gone in. These are located between the Fast and Slow lines, which surprised me a little: I'd presumed it'd be "arch" designs all through the four track section.

As catenary is being discussed at the moment, may I ask as an interested layman: what are the technical terms for the kinds of catenary? I'd roughly describe what exists at the moment as L-shaped gantries, "arches", and "basic" catenary masts, but of course this is useless: can anybody clarify? Illustrations would be much appreciated.

|>
|
|
Mast or stanchion


|===
|
|
cantilever (can be twin track)

|===|
| . . . |
| . . . | Portal (can cover any number of tracks, full stops to help with formatting!)

 

[HSTEd]

And then we have the much maligned but very cheap and cheerful 'headspan'

|\______/|
|............|
|............|

 

[LDECRexile]

I took a tour from Lime St to Manchecter Victoria and back today.

Structures visible from trains
Mast= upright steelwork. An arch counts as two
Base= concrete ground structure on which a mast will be placed
Scrape= preliminary groundwork where a base will be built
mbs= collective term for masts, bases and scrapes

A further 28 masts have been erected between Edge Hill and Earlestown since 9th June.

Many masts and bases are in place between Ordsall Lane Junction and Man Vic, with some scrapes in Man Vic itself (I've stuck with "scrapes" but they are whopping holes.)

There are no wires up between Ordsall Lane Jct and Deal Street Jn.

Huyton and Roby are hives of industry, please see the updated summary below, new things (to me) are in italics.

Notes: Electrification
Edge Hill to Wavertree only new mbs shown, older masts also exist
Bryn to Wigan NW only new mbs shown, older masts also exist
Ince Moss branch bases visible, but no masts yet
mbs in stations not shown, eg Prescot has two large "arch" masts
The rock 'canyon' N of Eccleston Pk will have side fixings, not mbs
Bases & scrapes east of Sankey viaduct, both sides of tracks
Lineside equipment installed (signalling?) Edge Hill-Broad Green
Extensive work on northbound platform at Bryn
Lineside equipment installed (signalling?) Bryn-Wigan
Lineside equipment installed (signalling?) Huyton-Whiston
Substantial electrical gear in place at Tuebrook Sidings
Substantial electrical gear in place at Huyton Quarry
Substantial lengths of "Return Wire" hanging nr Garswood and Bryn
Substantial lengths of "Power Wires" hanging nr Garswood and Bryn
Length of wires hanging in Olive Mount cutting, Liverpool
Length of "Return Wire" hanging between Eccleston Pk & Prescot
New signals lying near WTechPk, Collins Green, Whiston & Rainhill
Greaser at Earlestown definitely on back of flange against checkrail
Trackwork and signalling at Earlestown appears complete.
Huyton, Rainhill and Earlestown stations have no masts, bases or scrapes.
All other stations from Wavertree Tech Pk to St Helen Jct have at least one.

Notes: Re-quadrupling Roby Jct-to-be to Huyton Jct
Third line in position from near Roby Jct-to-be to Huyton Stn
Extensive platform edging changes at Roby and Huyton
3rd & 4th platform edges largely in place at both Roby & Huyton
Platform 4 lift shaft at Roby, tower up, "ready to instal lift"
Platform 2/3 lift shaft at Roby, tower up, shuttering removed inside
Platform 1 lift shaft at Roby, base installed, lining to be done
Construction staff at Roby confident of progress and prospects
Lift shaft progress at Huyton, all 3 towers up, being faced with brick
Subway immediately north east of Huyton Stn now capped
Sleepers stacked between Huyton Stn & Jct, cwr in the 4 ft
Lots of ballast tipped on 3rd trackbed between Huyton Stn & Jct
New building erected immediately west of Roby Stn bridge
Orange Army working en masse at Huyton Station
Awning roof at Roby removed, reason unknown
New signal erected East of Roby between tracks 2 and 3
High speed points assembled in readiness nr Roby Jct-to-be
One base in place between tracks 2 and 3 West of Roby
New signal lying between tracks 2 and 3 just West of Huyton
Lots of pointwork lying on third track just West of Huyton
Public subway closed at Huyton whilst it is rerouted and covered
Public redirected over temp footbridge and through railway subway

 

[Bald Rick]

And then we have the much maligned but very cheap and cheerful 'headspan'

|\______/|
|............|
|............|

The drawing is not quite right - the head span is still up

 

[DJH1971]

Many masts and bases are in place between Ordsall Lane Junction and Man Vic, with some scrapes in Man Vic itself (I've stuck with "scrapes" but they are whopping holes.)

There are no wires up between Ordsall Lane Jct and Deal Street Jn.[/I]

And yet the stretch between Ordsall Lane and Deal Street junctions is apparently going live in 2 weeks time.

 

[driver_m]

And yet the stretch between Ordsall Lane and Deal Street junctions is apparently going live in 2 weeks time.

That's what is showing in the weekly ops notice. Haven't been any posters put up in notice cases which is usually the surefire sign of something happening but in fairness we dont sign anything at vic anymore. The notices were right about the chat moss and it was unfinished then as well.

 

[L+Y]

|>
|
|
Mast or stanchion


|===
|
|
cantilever (can be twin track)

|===|
| . . . |
| . . . | Portal (can cover any number of tracks, full stops to help with formatting!)

And then we have the much maligned but very cheap and cheerful 'headspan'

|\______/|
|............|
|............|

Many thanks for this: helpful stuff!

Anyway, it seems to be the case that for at least part of the four track section we'll be seeing what I presume will be paired cantilevers: one based on the north side of the slow lines and covering them, one based between the fast and slow lines to cover the fast. Which, as I say, surprises me: I'd have thought portal structures would be the order of the day throughout the section given the willingness to erect them elsewhere.

Is the Bootle Branch to be wired, by the way? I'm presuming not, but wasn't entirely sure.

 

[snowball]

Is the Bootle Branch to be wired, by the way? I'm presuming not, but wasn't entirely sure.

It's not in the current plans, unless there's been a recent under-publicised change.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

And then we have the much maligned but very cheap and cheerful 'headspan'

|\______/|
|............|
|............|

You missed a few:

Single Track Cantilever (STC)

 |>
 |
 |
 |
___

Back to Back Cantilever ( no longer in fashion)

   <|>
    |
    |
    |
__________

Portal on Stub Masts

    |=================|
    |                 |
  ___                 ____
     \              /    
      \            /

Bridge Arm

+++++++++++++++++++
    |
    |>




______________________

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Anyway, it seems to be the case that for at least part of the four track section we'll be seeing what I presume will be paired cantilevers: one based on the north side of the slow lines and covering them, one based between the fast and slow lines to cover the fast. Which, as I say, surprises me: I'd have thought portal structures would be the order of the day throughout the section given the willingness to erect them elsewhere.

You can never quite tell until they put the masts and wires up.
There are places on the route where mast bases have been put in only a yard apart - a mistake you might think.
But it turns out one base is for a normal cantilever mast, and the other is for a smaller mast which terminates a separate wire run.
Some of the bases are also for new signals, although these are of a different design.
No doubt all will become clear soon...

 

[Wavertreelad]

It's not in the current plans, unless there's been a recent under-publicised change.

There was no sign of masts being installed past Olive Mount Junction up to last weekend and I am not aware of any current plans to electrify the branch.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

There was no sign of masts being installed past Olive Mount Junction up to last weekend and I am not aware of any current plans to electrify the branch.

It isn't shown on any of the major feeding diagrams I've seen, which were "current" :roll: up to and including Phase 5 (Vic - Stalybridge).

I think you can be pretty sure it's currently a no.

 

[AidanCroft]

Joseph_Locke, is there any way I can message you?

Kind regards,

Aidan.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

?

Have you tried "Send Joseph_Locke a private message", available by clicking my username at the left of this message? Is this one of those 5-posts-before-messaging-works-places?

If however thou meanst "can I have the magic incantation to invoke the god of E'Mayle" then forsooth not on your nelly.

 

[AidanCroft]

?

Have you tried "Send Joseph_Locke a private message", available by clicking my username at the left of this message? Is this one of those 5-posts-before-messaging-works-places?

If however thou meanst "can I have the magic incantation to invoke the god of E'Mayle" then forsooth not on your nelly.

It's quite possible that is the case. I understand you not sharing your E-mail address though.

Kind regards,

Aidan.

 

[Class377/5]

The drawing is not quite right - the head span is still up

Brillant!

Atleast Northern now have an EMU to play with.

 

[L+Y]

The first bits of wiring are up through Wavertree station. Again, my lack of knowledge of proper terminology lets me down here- these are not the wires that convey current to the train but the ones carried at the "side" of the masts- would I be correct in calling this Return Wiring? So, badly explained, but a nice bit of very visible progress!

 

[Class 170101]

Brillant!

Atleast Northern now have an EMU to play with.

Has it arrived yet? I thought it was still on loan to FCC.

 

[swt_passenger]

Has it arrived yet? I thought it was still on loan to FCC.

There are photos of the move in the thread in the traction section.

 

[Harryn9000]

photos of it at warrington and various other places so it defo moved her youtube vid of it at edge hill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctJBi6pSrSA

 

[geoffk]

I don't think the plans include a Liverpool - Warrington BQ service after electrification. Loadings between Earlestown & Warrington are fairly light - partly because the Warrington - Liverpool services mostly leave Bank Quay only 3 minutes after the (North Wales) - Warrington - Earlestown - Manchester services.

Is this still correct? If so does that mean the west curve at Earlestown is not being electrified? Surely it will be needed as a Euston - Liverpool diversionary route.

The Liverpool - Warrington service is busy as far as Earlestown and it provides a link between Warrington and St. Helens. Do we need another train to Manchester?

 

[TheGrew]

I would expect that the west curve at Earlestown would be electrified. Simply because it is often used for stock movements. I agree that the service is relatively lightly used though as for end to end it isn't the quickest route between the two places and as has been mentioned the ATW service leaves relatively closely before.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is this still correct? If so does that mean the west curve at Earlestown is not being electrified? Surely it will be needed as a Euston - Liverpool diversionary route.
The Liverpool - Warrington service is busy as far as Earlestown and it provides a link between Warrington and St. Helens. Do we need another train to Manchester?

It is certainly being electrified, all 20 chains of it!
Rerouting the Warrington BQ service to Manchester has been aired on this forum but I don't know what credence this has.
I doubt there will be changes before a more general service revision for the 2016 franchise.
The recent NT timetable change has destroyed the former connections at Warrington.
There used to be good connections to/from the London Pendolino, but since they now run on the opposite half hour that no longer applies.

 

[DJH1971]

Is this still correct? If so does that mean the west curve at Earlestown is not being electrified? Surely it will be needed as a Euston - Liverpool diversionary route.

The Liverpool - Warrington service is busy as far as Earlestown and it provides a link between Warrington and St. Helens. Do we need another train to Manchester?

While public transport between Warrington to St Helens is already so non-existent and why roads into Warrington from St Helens are already busy.

 

[Wavertreelad]

A few quick shots of the progress in a week in Olive Mount Cutting which is now beginning to look a bit more complete.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

A few quick shots of the progress in a week in Olive Mount Cutting which is now beginning to look a bit more complete.

Excellent and thanks for posting

 

[po8crg]

While public transport between Warrington to St Helens is already so non-existent and why roads into Warrington from St Helens are already busy.

I've wondered about a Warrington BQ-St Helens Central via Wigan NW service, but it would need to be quick enough not to disrupt the WCML and I doubt that the 319's 90mph would be fast enough. Bear in mind that LM uprated the 350/1s from 100mph to 110mph to fit into WCML paths better.

Warrington-Earlestown is a short enough stretch on WCML that even a 142 isn't a problem, but Warrington-Wigan is a good deal further.

 

[DJH1971]

A few quick shots of the progress in a week in Olive Mount Cutting which is now beginning to look a bit more complete.

Any more wiring up?