Manchester Metrolink master thread

[MidnightFlyer]

Indeed, however I was observing, not evaluating! I thoroughly appreciate that it will be a totally different scenario on Monday morning or Wednesday evening for example.

 

[Starmill]

Indeed, however I was observing, not evaluating! I thoroughly appreciate that it will be a totally different scenario on Monday morning or Wednesday evening for example.

You'd hope so but...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

From what I can gather both the daily and weekly (and monthly?) ticket prices for Droylsden-central Manchester are a lot more expensive on the tram than the Stagecoach bus service which shadows a lot of the route. IIRC there's not a huge time differential either. Perhaps this will stunt growth on the new line?

 

[Manchester77]

You'd hope so but...

I rode on it to Droylsden and back a few weeks ago on a Thursday. It was around 1300 and the trams were pretty much full with people having to stand it was so full! I guess it depends on everything

 

[tbtc]

From what I can gather both the daily and weekly (and monthly?) ticket prices for Droylsden-central Manchester are a lot more expensive on the tram than the Stagecoach bus service which shadows a lot of the route. IIRC there's not a huge time differential either. Perhaps this will stunt growth on the new line?

How do the bus fares on (say) Bury - Manchester or Oldham - Manchester compare to the tram fares?

In Sheffield the tram has always cost more than the bus, but enough people seem happy to pay the extra fare to give both a market share.

 

[Starmill]

How do the bus fares on (say) Bury - Manchester or Oldham - Manchester compare to the tram fares?

In Sheffield the tram has always cost more than the bus, but enough people seem happy to pay the extra fare to give both a market share.

The thing with the Bury Line is, its a clear winner against buses. You can do it in just under half an hour, but the bus takes about 55 mins? Ive never been on the Bus, how many are there to compare with the 10tph?


Looks like there are 8bph on the 135, timed for 47 mins, but rising to 61 mins at peak times. Any othe routes do Bury to Manchester?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Looks like there are 8bph on the 135, timed for 47 mins, but rising to 61 mins at peak times. Any other routes do Bury to Manchester?

Services 92, 93 and 98 run from Bury to Manchester.

 

[radamfi]

Most people using buses to travel between Oldham/Bury and Manchester would get a FirstDay at £4.50 (reducing to £4 soon). Off-peak Metrolink return fares are not much different to this, but peak fares can be substantially more.

If they need to transfer between buses and trams, though, there is no cheap option in peak and the off-peak DaySaver is £6.50, so these people might be more likely to try to stick to buses only.

For a number of years after the Metrolink opened, GM Buses and subsequently First ran a competing express bus between Bury and Manchester which did the route in about 30 minutes.

 

[gnolife]

Most people using buses to travel between Oldham/Bury and Manchester would get a FirstDay at £4.50 (reducing to £4 soon). Off-peak Metrolink return fares are not much different to this, but peak fares can be substantially more.

If they need to transfer between buses and trams, though, there is no cheap option in peak and the off-peak DaySaver is £6.50, so these people might be more likely to try to stick to buses only.

For a number of years after the Metrolink opened, GM Buses and subsequently First ran a competing express bus between Bury and Manchester which did the route in about 30 minutes.

You'll be talking about the X35 then? In my experiences of using it, it was always well loaded (I always used a child Wayfarer, and took the tram one way and the bus the other way) - I think the biggest selling point of the X35 was how comfortable the seats were compared to the rocks found on T68s (except 1007)

 

[radamfi]

You'll be talking about the X35 then? In my experiences of using it, it was always well loaded (I always used a child Wayfarer, and took the tram one way and the bus the other way) - I think the biggest selling point of the X35 was how comfortable the seats were compared to the rocks found on T68s (except 1007)

I'm thinking more of the 90/790 which went via Bury New Road instead of via Cheetham Hill. That ran throughout the day, not just peak hours.

 

[gnolife]

I'm thinking more of the 90/790 which went via Bury New Road instead of via Cheetham Hill. That ran throughout the day, not just peak hours.

The X35 did use to be throughout the day - I tended to use it around 2pm heading into Manchester.

 

[radamfi]

The X35 did use to be throughout the day - I tended to use it around 2pm heading into Manchester.

Oh yes, I remember now. It has since reverted to peak only.

 

[Manchester77]

The thing with the Bury Line is, its a clear winner against buses. You can do it in just under half an hour, but the bus takes about 55 mins? Ive never been on the Bus, how many are there to compare with the 10tph?

As is the Altrincham Line. Many people who use the line would rather use the met than queue for hours on Washway Road in a car/bus

 

[rebmcr]

Tram reported at East Didsbury at 16:30 yesterday

Was it diesel-hauled?

I pass over Burton Road station every day on my way to and from work — the line has been deserted for months now, and the OHLE is definitely not tensioned.

I imagine that the report was of a clearance run with the panto down, now that manpower has presumably been freed by the Rochdale opening. Hopefully we'll get the wires stretched ready for route learning now.

 

[Manchester77]

Considering last year 3050 + 3051 ran down overnight and did some testing I would say its highly unlikely that there is anything wrong with the OHLE.

Clearence was done last year, this was most likely a dynamic test simular to the June 2012 dynamic testing on the EML1 to Droylsden where 3030 + 3031 ran down.

The only diesel services to run on metrolink are when they are: trains of the ELR delivering track and ballast - http://www.flickr.com/photos/garstangpost/4338393538/
Or when the new lines are under construction they have a little shunter the SPV running up and down with ballast wagons.

Clearence testing is always done with the tram using the OHLE. Look at the EML2 testing a few weeks ago. The double ran from OldTrafford down the EML1 and onto the EML2 where it was stabled at different points and did the journey step by step over the week.

With the Old Trafford Control Room comes on line on April the 8th this will add the extra capacity to control SML2 trams and the implementation of TMS.

Apparently TMS installation is in progress as there have been Thales vans parked at Didsbury Village and other sites and with this and the OT depot control coming live I can see it won't be long until we see full Ghosting, Driver Training and then opening.

 

[Green Lane]

The only diesel services to run on metrolink are when they are: trains of the ELR delivering track and ballast - http://www.flickr.com/photos/garstangpost/4338393538/

What a great photo! I guess they are only allowed on certain sections of the Metrolink system? i.e. we are not likely to see a class 37 running down Mosley Street or those bends between Exchange Quay and Pomona anytime soon. They must have some way of stopping them from inadvertently going past a certain point I guess?

 

[Manchester77]

Aha it would be a surreal moment when a 37 trundles down the Deansgate Ramp:')

I don't think they're aloud on street running sections so they'd be aloud on:-
Bury - Victoria
Trafford Bar - Altrincham
Trafford Bar - St Werbugh's Road (East Didsbury)

Ad that's it but I think the only connections are at the ELR Bury, Victoria and Altrincham but I'm not too sure.

 

[Green Lane]

Aha it would be a surreal moment when a 37 trundles down the Deansgate Ramp:')

I don't think they're aloud on street running sections so they'd be aloud on:-
Bury - Victoria
Trafford Bar - Altrincham
Trafford Bar - St Werbugh's Road (East Didsbury)

Ad that's it but I think the only connections are at the ELR Bury, Victoria and Altrincham but I'm not too sure.

Thank you for the reply - that makes sense!

 

[snowball]

If I remember correctly it has been stated several times on SSC that platform edges on Metrolink are now so close to the track that very little heavy rail stock could get past them.

 

[Manchester77]

If your traveling on the Bury Line tonight..
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=101752543&postcount=21829

Prestwich Bridge hit by a double decker operated by first group. Trams are going over the bridge at 10 mph currently

 

[Greybeard33]

The only diesel services to run on metrolink are when they are: trains of the ELR delivering track and ballast - http://www.flickr.com/photos/garstangpost/4338393538/
Or when the new lines are under construction they have a little shunter the SPV running up and down with ballast wagons.

Aha it would be a surreal moment when a 37 trundles down the Deansgate Ramp:')

I don't think they're aloud on street running sections so they'd be aloud on:-
Bury - Victoria
Trafford Bar - Altrincham
Trafford Bar - St Werbugh's Road (East Didsbury)

Ad that's it but I think the only connections are at the ELR Bury, Victoria and Altrincham but I'm not too sure.

If I remember correctly it has been stated several times on SSC that platform edges on Metrolink are now so close to the track that very little heavy rail stock could get past them.

I think it depends which stock - some classes of vehicles might have a better lower sector gauge clearance than others. 37109 and its wagons must have got past the platform at Radcliffe (I guess very cautiously!), since this video shows them between there and Whitefield.

Heavy rail vehicles cannot venture on to the grooved track sections because their wheel flanges are too wide. Neither could they negotiate the tight curves and steep gradients on new sections of reserved track, such as the diveunders at Cornbrook and Trafford Bar. As Manchester77 said, Metrolink's Special Purpose Vehicle, 1027, is the only go-anywhere diesel. It can be used to rescue a failed tram as well as for engineering work. Use of the connections between Metrolink and the heavy rail network is only permitted during an engineering possession.
Edit:
I believe there is a fourth connection, to the Oldham line east of the Dean Lane refuse depot. There used to be another at Rochdale during the construction work, but I think that might now have been severed.

 

[rebmcr]

Considering last year 3050 + 3051 ran down overnight and did some testing I would say its highly unlikely that there is anything wrong with the OHLE.

It's categorically saggy! I'd say around 15-20cm in the middle of support spans. Were the runs at line speed, or slow enough to avoid a standing wave?

 

[Manchester77]

No one knows! Literally one day we had a load of pictures of signs up at East Didders and the next we had a load of a double sat in the platform:')

 

[Starmill]

I took photos of the double at E Dids myself, I saw them there, no more, no less. Although I remember there was further explanation of what happened from others, and the consensus was that they were running under their own power. I'm also not sure that 1027 can actually couple an M5000 safely? Air brakes and all that?

 

[Manchester77]

There's defiantly a picture somewhere of 1027 coupled to a banana at Queens Road when they first arrived.

 

[Starmill]

There's defiantly a picture somewhere of 1027 coupled to a banana at Queens Road when they first arrived.

Well... an M5000 can physically couple to a T68 can't it? Doesn't mean you can drive it.

 

[rebmcr]

I imagine you could put one in neutral and pull really hard with the other. What's "safety"?

 

[Starmill]

I imagine you could put one in neutral and pull really hard with the other. What's "safety"?

I have a feeling you have to top and tail dead trams? I stress that I don't know, but there were pictures of this when they moved a T68 past Dean Lane.

I remember discussion at that time that its not as easy as 'putting it in nutral' might suggest.

 

[Manchester77]

If metrolink are keeping SPV (which they almost certainly are) then it will be updated to operate with an M5000. This I suspect won't happen until al T68/A units are withdrawn as its more likely to have to rescue one of them than an M5000.

Yes unless they can be fixed there and then a triple is formed with the centre units pantograph down. Dead T68s heading to Old Trafford run like this too. Or at least 1011 did when it moved to death row.

For an M5000 to run coupled to a T68 there has to be a driver in both cabs to operate both sets of brakes.

 

[WatcherZero]

Its the T68's which need compressed air to release their brakes. Theres a portable compressor they use for releasing them if theres not another T68 available. No such legacy technology issues with the M5000.