Manchester Metrolink master thread

[martin2345uk]

No no I think this is all just a "what if they had" scenario...

 

[northwichcat]

Did it not tip you off that the rest of the sentence says that people are directed to wait on the platform when a tram turns short? Buses are not provided.

I got the impression from reading your post that you were implying there was a bus but passengers are directed to use the next tram.

With the tram supposed to be every 6 minutes for most of the day and if one tram is delayed it probably means the next one will be along in less than 6 minutes I'm not sure there would be any advantage of looking for a bus if it was just one tram that terminated short.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

With the tram supposed to be every 6 minutes for most of the day and if one tram is delayed it probably means the next one will be along in less than 6 minutes I'm not sure there would be any advantage of looking for a bus if it was just one tram that terminated short.

Would it ever be the case that the number of passengers disembarking from an Altrincham-bound tram tram that was terminated short at Timperley could make the next Altrincham-bound tram somewhat overcrowded ?

 

[edwin_m]

The T68s had an upgrade programme to tackle the major reliability issues and install stuff like on-board displays. They were intended also to have a repaint and interior refurbishment (one unit was repainted in the yellow livery) but TfGM decided instead to get rid and order more M5000s. I'm not aware that running the two types in multiple with each other was ever seriously suggested - for a start T68s have air brakes and M5000s have no pneumatic equipment.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Would it ever be the case that the number of passengers disembarking from an Altrincham-bound tram tram that was terminated short at Timperley could make the next Altrincham-bound tram somewhat overcrowded ?

Possibly so, though if it was crush-loaded on leaving Manchester (as they often are) it would have emptied out somewhat by Timperley. People have mentioned that it is normally the single units from Piccadilly that are turned back at Timperley, so the following service would usually be a double.

 

[gnolife]

Would it ever be the case that the number of passengers disembarking from an Altrincham-bound tram tram that was terminated short at Timperley could make the next Altrincham-bound tram somewhat overcrowded ?

Not to the point that people would be left behind, bearing in mind that a lot of people would have got off at places like Old Trafford, Stretfprd and Sale. I've been on plenty of crush loaded trams leaving Cornbrook, but never failed to have a seat on a M5000 by Timperley.

 

[Starmill]

Would it ever be the case that the number of passengers disembarking from an Altrincham-bound tram tram that was terminated short at Timperley could make the next Altrincham-bound tram somewhat overcrowded ?

Probably not at Timperley, as others have said, but note that this happens anyway due to poor headways and the fact its almost impossible to regulate the service through the city centre. It is very common, for example, for two bury trams to be loading/unloading at Market Street at the same time (or waiting for platform space to do so if either is a double unit).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Probably not at Timperley, as others have said, but note that this happens anyway due to poor headways and the fact its almost impossible to regulate the service through the city centre. It is very common, for example, for two bury trams to be loading/unloading at Market Street at the same time (or waiting for platform space to do so if either is a double unit).

Noting what you say here and from what has been said in the past on SSC, how will Cornbrook function just as a 2-platform station once the Manchester Airport line (and hopefully the Port Salford line) see fully operational services.

Noting that being on a viaduct should not be beyond the ken of infrastructural engineers in the 21st century to construct a double island 4-platform stop in the present location.

 

[edwin_m]

The service through Cornbrook will be around 40 trams per hour in each direction or one every 90s. However the dwell time should be no more than 30s and with line of sight operation two single trams will be able to occupy the same platform or if one arrives when the platform is full it can wait close behind ready to move up as soon as it is clear. Hence when a tram leaves the platform another can replace it very quickly.

Off-street operation with a grade separated junction to the Eccles line means there is no reason for trams to be held up in the platform by signals, except points failure or if a tram is due into the turnback but the previous one is still there (and I should imagine the timetable and the control centre do all they can to ensure that doesn't happen!).

 

[Starmill]

Aye, once line of sight is in two trams can occupy Cornbrook at the same time (unless one is a double of course!) and the headway can be nice and short across the rest of the viaduct so I suspect 40+tph will be fine.

I have no idea of the facts or anything though, this is all conjecture, but would I be right in thinking that there are not yet any platforms in the country that handle 40 departures an hour? Depending on just how busy an interchange this becomes, that might cause some dwell time issues at Cornbrook?

Of course, only 35tph are really 100% to go ahead - if the airport line gets stuck at 12 minute service and Port Salford doesn't get off the ground that's what we will have.

 

[transmanche]

However the dwell time should be no more than 30s and with line of sight operation

Are they planning to extend the 'line of sight' (or street running) rules from beyond the city centre street running section? Are they going to do this across the whole system - as Tramlink in London does?

 

[Manchester77]

Yes the line of site is TMS the new signalling

 

[507 001]

3071 was being delivered to queens road at 12:45 today

 

[familyguy99]

Tram testing to Rochdale Town Centre took place early this Morning (3am) for first time where line still expect to open next year.

 

[Manchester77]

Testing at Cornbrook seems to have gone well. Facebook group have a picture of PIDs working and multiple trams in the platform.

Also they reported one hour ago that a tram went through Audenshaw under police escort!!


Exciting times

PS Martin, been through all my USBs and disks not found the PDF yet, nor any metrolink stuff which worries me :/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
TMS is now operational through Cornbrook, PIDs are active a Cornbrook

 

[Darren R]

Also they reported one hour ago that a tram went through Audenshaw under police escort!!

Blimey - is Audenshaw really so bad that even the trams need police protection!

But seriously - why under police escort?

 

[Manchester77]

Traffic lights weren't operational so legally needs a police escort

Tram used was 3042

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How much disruption was caused to the operation of the Manchester Metrolink system by the thunderstorms that hit the Manchester area in the early hours of this morning ?

 

[Manchester77]

I think there was a full network suspension until the solid state interlocking system had been fixed (that's what was said on SCC) it was at Queens Road so it delayed the start of service and getting trams out in the morning
There's currently delays because of a failed tram on the Bury line however hopefully now TMS is at Cornbrook the service should be able to be rectified quicker

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was Queens Road depot subject to any lighting strikes in the early hours of this morning ?

 

[Manchester77]

I don't know, on the news they said on in the Queens Road area of north manchester effects metrolink services this morning so I assume it was, or if not very close!

 

[YorkshireBear]

So how is TMS doing now? I don't follow this project as closely as i should.

 

[Manchester77]

Very good, trams are moving through the Cornbrook section much quicker and PIDs are very helpful when changing. Also there's no stopping after Trafford Bar which is good. Once the next section is complete we can bring out some of the stored TMS only vehicles for Eccles line usage (won't happen though)

 

[Darren R]

Traffic lights weren't operational so legally needs a police escort

Well I never knew that! So what happens if operational traffic lights fail? (Innevitably it happens from time to time - mercifully I've never witnessed it in Manchester city centre though!)

 

[Manchester77]

The road will have to be closed to allow trams to cross safely

 

[Starmill]

TMS working like a dream across the viaduct and around Cornbrook Junction... No wait climbing the ramp towards Deansgate, immediate departure and progress towards Cornbrook platforms is uninterrupted. What's infuriating is that the speed limit has been reduced on the viaduct down to 30mph! Trams used to be able to travel at 50 then I think it was a reduction to 40 round the bend. Very annoying! Anyway its great to see more than one tram loading/unloading at Cornbrook platforms at the same time, which was never possible without passing at danger before. Also often as not a tram is arriving at one of the platforms only seconds after the previous has departed, which seems strange to me for having spent so long on that platform!

Inbound the story is the same from both the Eccles line and from Trafford Bar. No stops whatsoever until the signal just before the merge at the bottom of the hill. No more waiting for 5 minutes in the cutting between Trafford Bar and Cornbrook or sitting atop the viaduct between Pomona and Cornbrook waiting for the tram in front to clear Cornbrook platform. Waits have been dramatically reduced - I just wish more of the commuters could appreciate this newfound seamlessness! Line of Sight for the win!

 

[WatcherZero]

Presumably speed reduction is because of sight line obstruction of the bird cage?

 

[Manchester77]

I don't get why they've reduced speeds because onSCC when someone asked TfGM about capacity on the viaduct and that he same number of trams will be heading into the city and there's additional tracks being put in there they said that because of the faster speeds on the viaduct there wasn't really the need because there's extra capacity?

 

[Class377/5]

I don't get why they've reduced speeds because onSCC when someone asked TfGM about capacity on the viaduct and that he same number of trams will be heading into the city and there's additional tracks being put in there they said that because of the faster speeds on the viaduct there wasn't really the need because there's extra capacity?

There is faster passage through the area due to removing the block sections. Rather than one at a time with the block section multiple trams can travel at the same time meaning there is less time queuing which is where the time saving occurs.

 

[Shrimper]

The road will have to be closed to allow trams to cross safely

Fortunately, this is not the case - when lights at Portland Street have failed the tram proceeds at caution, with hazard lights on after calling control for permission.

The reason for the speed reduction on the Cornbrook viaduct is because it is now line-of-sight; the lower speed means that a vehicle can safely stop if there is one ahead; whereas the previous block signalling worked on the assumption that there wasn't a tram in the section.

 

[rebmcr]

I don't get why they've reduced speeds because onSCC when someone asked TfGM about capacity on the viaduct and that he same number of trams will be heading into the city and there's additional tracks being put in there they said that because of the faster speeds on the viaduct there wasn't really the need because there's extra capacity?

Faster average speed from one end of the viaduct to the other — apparently even with the lower speed restriction.

Blitzing through the birdcage at 50 in a T68 always felt scarily wobbly anyway (even when you know it's safe).