Manchester - Sheffield on Sundays.

[Mugby]

The overcrowding on this line on Sunday mornings has been a problem for years now, it's becoming impossible and yet never seems to be addressed.
This morning was no exception and on the 09.14 TPE service to Sheffield, the cl.170 was so full it was virtually impossible to get aboard 10 minutes before departure.
The next option was the 09.22 Northern Hope Valley stopper but again the Pacer was full and it was standing room only.
The next fast service, the 11.18 is never any better, it's always severely overcrowded.

It seems to me there are two options:
First, strengthen the 09.14 Man - Shf service to 2xcl.170's or a 185, both are available on Sunday mornings.
Second, after the 09.14 TPE, there is a 2 hour gap till the next fast service at 11.18. Why can't another one be inserted at 10.15? Is it because it would not generate a balancing return?

Whatever the reasons for failing to address this problem may be, it's not a pleasant experience travelling between Manchester and Sheffield on Sunday mornings!

 

[Bevan Price]

The overcrowding on this line on Sunday mornings has been a problem for years now, it's becoming impossible and yet never seems to be addressed.
This morning was no exception and on the 09.14 TPE service to Sheffield, the cl.170 was so full it was virtually impossible to get aboard 10 minutes before departure.
The next option was the 09.22 Northern Hope Valley stopper but again the Pacer was full and it was standing room only.
The next fast service, the 11.18 is never any better, it's always severely overcrowded.

It seems to me there are two options:
First, strengthen the 09.14 Man - Shf service to 2xcl.170's or a 185, both are available on Sunday mornings.
Second, after the 09.14 TPE, there is a 2 hour gap till the next fast service at 11.18. Why can't another one be inserted at 10.15? Is it because it would not generate a balancing return?

Whatever the reasons for failing to address this problem may be, it's not a pleasant experience travelling between Manchester and Sheffield on Sunday mornings!

I think it has escaped the attention of DfT, NR & TOCs that people want to travel on Sundays - that shops are open, and that people want to take leisure trips, etc.

 

[elarchibaldo]

If it's getting that bad, try taking the slower Northern service. They aren't as busy across the Hope Valley, as a frequent traveller.

 

[mancnq]

I wouldn't recommend the Hope Valley line as a way to get from Manchester to Sheffield on a Sunday morning. Manchester's ramblers head out into the Peak District at that time and there's only so many people that can fit onto a Pacer. We wanted to get the 1145 Hope Valley from Piccadilly on Sunday, but changed our mind when the train was delayed and the crowd on the platform wouldn't stop growing - no way did we want to be cooped up in a Pacer like sardines all the way to Edale.

Northern's no-growth franchise is an absolute joke.

 

[tbtc]

Not helped by the fact that EMT have no stock stabled west of the Pennines overnight (so not a lot of early eastbound departures on a Sunday from Manchester) and the problems getting staff to work on Sundays (meaning TOCs are reluctant to schedule more services)

 

[tom1649]

I wouldn't recommend the Hope Valley line as a way to get from Manchester to Sheffield on a Sunday morning. Manchester's ramblers head out into the Peak District at that time and there's only so many people that can fit onto a Pacer. We wanted to get the 1145 Hope Valley from Piccadilly on Sunday, but changed our mind when the train was delayed and the crowd on the platform wouldn't stop growing - no way did we want to be cooped up in a Pacer like sardines all the way to Edale.

Northern's no-growth franchise is an absolute joke.

Surely there's something spare on a Sunday to form a 4 car train? Of course that would mean you'd have to use Platform 7 at Sheffield instead of 2c.

 

[telstarbox]

The ramblers etc passenger traffic is weather-dependent to an extent, with people more likely to head out in good weather than bad. In the Pennines you often get both in one day!

 

[eastwestdivide]

The sun came out during the morning on Bank Holiday Monday, and I was on the 1214 Hope Valley train from Sheffield. Unusually it was up on the boards as platform 8, and there was quite a crowd waiting for it, even with the TP express departing at 1210 from the adjacent platform 6, carefully advertised as Manchester Airport via Manchester Piccadilly, to help Manchester travellers get the faster service.
The reason for platform 8 turned out to be a 150+142 combination, which was well filled, but probably no more than 75% full, on leaving.
Coming back late afternoon was a single 150. Again no problem getting a seat, but that was probably before the peak time for returning hill walkers.

As for the variable weather, it's common enough to have rain one end and sun the other of Totley Tunnel!

 

[harry42]

Phahahaha...You will not fit on a northern pacer on a summer sunday!!!

We tried a week ago now when it was OK, (20o and almost sunny) between Dore and Chinley and we stood for the whole journey.

Come Edale, the guard wouldn't let anyone else on. The amount of people who had free travel. Poor conductor is all I can say!

It's a joke!

 

[northwichcat]

I think it has escaped the attention of DfT, NR & TOCs that people want to travel on Sundays - that shops are open, and that people want to take leisure trips, etc.

Northern have recently (in the past 5 years) enhanced Sunday passenger services on a limited number of lines.
* Atherton line - previously no service. Current hourly service receives TfGM support. Timetable has a footnote indicating this and that they may withdraw it if funding is withdrawn.
* Stoke line - additional services. Receives Cheshire East council subsidy.
* Mid-Cheshire line - 2 hourly service instead of 3 hourly service. Apparently a commercial decision and resulted in Sunday passenger numbers quadrupling.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Don't know what your complaining about. Who wants to travel on a Sunday? No one.


I joke i joke.
It really does beggar belief. Single 170 on first one of the day..... Its not difficult is it, TOCs do not help themselves.

 

[AlexS]

It's the same everywhere. The first Leicester to Birmingham was booked a 2 car 170 for a while on a Sunday. After leaving double figures worth of people behind every week it's now a 4 car 170 or very occasionally a 220, and still pretty full. It took a bit of time for the realisation to kick in that more carriages were urgently required.

 

[tom1649]

There was a similar problem last year when the cricket was on at Trent Bridge. The first departure from Sheffield to Nottingham on a Sunday, operated by Northern, was formed of 1x158. By the time it arrived at Alfreton to pick my friends up the guard wouldn't let anyone else on and he explained that it had been full and standing at Sheffield! As a result they had to drive to Nottingham. Now some common sense should have been applied here. Surely someone at Northern responsible for unit allocations would have known there was a test match on at Nottingham and strengthened the diagram accordingly? Perhaps not.

I wonder if we still had BR they might have been a bit more demand responsive. I guess these things are easier to organise on a vertically integrated railway.

At least some operators have taken notice and tried to improve matters.

 

[Qwerty133]

It's the same everywhere. The first Leicester to Birmingham was booked a 2 car 170 for a while on a Sunday. After leaving double figures worth of people behind every week it's now a 4 car 170 or very occasionally a 220, and still pretty full. It took a bit of time for the realisation to kick in that more carriages were urgently required.

It was leaving people behind from Hinckley and Nuneaton last December as 4 coaches and last time I was on it there were people standing from Natborough. (like normal there was a grand total of 0 passengers in first class).
What's stopping XC running an earlier service on Sundays- the lines open!

 

[philjo]

I was on the West Highland Line on the 08:21 from Queen Street last Saturday. About 70 ramblers/climbers/cyclists all got off at Corrour! I think there were 3 separate groups.

 

[mancnq]

I used the 1118 from Piccadilly to Sheffield this Sunday and they had an extra 3 carriages alongside the usual 3 for that stretch of the route, but not the full Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes. Would have been horrifically overcrowded otherwise, but was actually a comfortable journey, despite the 11 minute delay in setting off.

 

[Mugby]

I used the 1118 from Piccadilly to Sheffield this Sunday and they had an extra 3 carriages alongside the usual 3 for that stretch of the route, but not the full Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes. Would have been horrifically overcrowded otherwise, but was actually a comfortable journey, despite the 11 minute delay in setting off.

That's very unusual. I sometimes use the 11.18 and it's always horrendous.

I wonder if there was a special reason?

 

[luke1420]

To defeat the problem of overcrowding on the stopper you would have to either run them hourly or make them 4 carriages? Northern have about 4 unit stabled in Stockport on a Sunday that could be used to strengthen the hope valley line on a Sunday

same with Saturdays i understand they don't have as many spare train's but they could really do with putting 4 carriages on the XX:14 stopper they become very overcrowded by the time the reach Marple area.

 

[dannypye9999]

Would it be acceptable to take a cross country from Manchester to Sheffield via Birmingham New Street?

 

[JackClare]

If you fancy a 3 hour journey to position yourself 40 miles West, then go ahead ^ even the XC services are overcrowded too though

Not sure how many spare units Northern have at Stockport but I know on a typical Sunday day time when passing on the tram there are always maybe a good 10 142's/150's/156's parked at Newton Heath TMD. It would take 25 minutes to get a double set from Newton Heath to Piccadilly, it's not difficult Northern!

 

[YorkshireBear]

If you fancy a 3 hour journey to position yourself 40 miles West, then go ahead ^ even the XC services are overcrowded too though

Not sure how many spare units Northern have at Stockport but I know on a typical Sunday day time when passing on the tram there are always maybe a good 10 142's/150's/156's parked at Newton Heath TMD. It would take 25 minutes to get a double set from Newton Heath to Piccadilly, it's not difficult Northern!

25 minutes :roll:

 

[Tomnick]

Do they have driverless trains now then, that never have routine maintainance carried out whilst on shed?

 

[JackClare]

25 minutes :roll:

25 minutes from Manchester to Birmingham to Sheffield?

Do they have driverless trains now then, that never have routine maintainance carried out whilst on shed?

I know maintenance is essential but I'm talking about ones that are sat on the tracks in the depot, either adjacent to the Metrolink line or the Caldervale line. And I mean to couple two sets together. You wouldn't need another driver and you'd only need another conductor if they used a double 142, although then again, they may want to strengthen how many conductors they have on board a service if the service is busy enough to warrant an extra set to be coupled up

Jack

 

[YorkshireBear]

25 minutes from Manchester to Birmingham to Sheffield?



I know maintenance is essential but I'm talking about ones that are sat on the tracks in the depot, either adjacent to the Metrolink line or the Caldervale line. And I mean to couple two sets together. You wouldn't need another driver and you'd only need another conductor if they used a double 142, although then again, they may want to strengthen how many conductors they have on board a service if the service is busy enough to warrant an extra set to be coupled up

Jack

No 25 minutes to get a unit from Newton Heath to Piccadilly.

summon up a driver, get the units together, prep the train, then take it on a round slow route around manchester and get the paths for this. 25 minutes is wildly optimistic.

 

[Tomnick]

That was my point too - no matter how long it takes, you've still got to find a driver to make the move (especially difficult on a Sunday!). Just because the units are sitting idle during a brief snapshot of the depot, doesn't mean that's how they'll remain all day either - they could be waiting to be taken for attention, booked to go out to work something else later in the afternoon, or could be generally expired!

 

[luke1420]

25 minutes from Manchester to Birmingham to Sheffield?



I know maintenance is essential but I'm talking about ones that are sat on the tracks in the depot, either adjacent to the Metrolink line or the Caldervale line. And I mean to couple two sets together. You wouldn't need another driver and you'd only need another conductor if they used a double 142, although then again, they may want to strengthen how many conductors they have on board a service if the service is busy enough to warrant an extra set to be coupled up

Jack

I travel on the hope valley line frequently and i only know of a handful of 4 carriage services that run with two conductors, most of the time they will run with one conductor in the rear unit.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Good news appears to be that from May 2014 there will be no two car workings on south TPE route.

 

[Mugby]

There was a TPE class 170 in platform 2C at Sheffield on Saturday evening about half an hour before the last Northern stopper was due to terminate in the same bay.

Is it usual for TPE to have a unit in Sheffield on Saturday evenings?

 

[dk1]

This is one of the reasons that i prefered TPx to take over the Liverpool-Norwich service. Not that EMT are doing a bad job but it would have trains & crews based on the other side of the Pennines. It would then perhaps be possible to introduce a 10.15 Norwich departure from Manchester & cut down ECS workings on weekdays.

 

[MCR247]

This is one of the reasons that i prefered TPx to take over the Liverpool-Norwich service. Not that EMT are doing a bad job but it would have trains & crews based on the other side of the Pennines. It would then perhaps be possible to introduce a 10.15 Norwich departure from Manchester & cut down ECS workings on weekdays.

I don't see why they would have. Where has the space to all of the 158s and I'm not sure why staff would be in a different place because I doubt many Nottingham CT staff would have been up for a move to Manchester overnight