Manchester Victoria Refurbishment

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I believe the area immediately to the North of platform six may be a car park. Certainly, having rocked out at the arena previously, I can‘t remember going down into the seating area from the mezzanine.

I suspect the ability to install extra platforms without knocking down the MEN will depend on whether provision was provided for this in the Arena design in terms of column spacing etc. It‘s not difficult to imagine that the structure of the Arena to the north of platform six might be similar to the design south of it.

Was that car park an integral part of the proposals for the construction of the arena when it first was put forward for planning consent. Has any forum member checked the capacity of this car park and the number of spaces that are used on a regular basis.

 

[yorksrob]

I‘ve seen heresay and rumours about the convertability of the car park on other forums but nothing substantial. Would love to find out though.

 

[Dunc108]

I‘ve seen heresay and rumours about the convertability of the car park on other forums but nothing substantial. Would love to find out though.

I'm sure an additional through platform (which would be platform 7) would make an enormous difference to capacity at Victoria which will be badly needed in the not-too distant future, especially when North Trans-Pennines return in full with the commissioning of the Ordsall Chord, not to mention EMUs on faster & more frequent services from Liverpool. Although I'm not well up on the Arena's construction, it seems a far better alternative to accommodating Bays which might involve long walks up the platforms. I'm also hoping the 2 extra platforms at Salford Central get reinstated as a part of the scheme & the station brought up to standard.

 

[yorksrob]

Undoubtedly. The through platforms seem to be well occupied a lot of the time now and they‘ll only be busier with the northern hub.

 

[dewsnapsliding]

The eastern-facing bay platform 17 in its later years had a brick wall partition with about three openings to seperate it from platform 16, which allowed access to and from the platform for parcels on mechanised carriers.

I remember going to an 'exhibition train' on platform 17 filled with computer equipment in the mid to late 80s.
You had to go through the gaps in the wall to get in.
It can't have been long before it was redeveloped.

Platforms 7&8 were always good for odd locos, along with Red Bank!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Perhaps all that space that's currently wasted on the city side of the current tram platforms (according to posts above the site of platforms 1-7) could have a new arena built on it- with the MEN/NYNEX being demolished to free up space to reopen the third pair of through lines?

Was there not a document published in the last couple of years that stated that the refurbishment of the Corporation Street area that abuts the site of the former fish dock at Manchester Victoria station would incorporate the area left after the Manchester Metrolink updating and have commercial building construction, amongst other proposed building uses ?

Has anyone else any recollection of this ?

 

[Dunc108]

Was there not a document published in the last couple of years that stated that the refurbishment of the Corporation Street area that abuts the site of the former fish dock at Manchester Victoria station would incorporate the area left after the Manchester Metrolink updating and have commercial building construction, amongst other proposed building uses ?

Has anyone else any recollection of this ?

Yes remember it vaguely, its all gone a bit quiet since then...

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Yes remember it vaguely, its all gone a bit quiet since then...

Was it this?
http://www.noma53.com/

 

[HowardGWR]

Writing as a stranger, what is that dreadful building between Hunts Bank and Walkers croft. On some Street View images the park is still there and then from the junction up Hunts bank is this alien spaceship building that does not seem to have windows.

Anyone know?

It's shewn on the mock up on this page of Network Rail.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Manchester_Victoria_station_redevelopment.aspx

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Undoubtedly. The through platforms seem to be well occupied a lot of the time now and they‘ll only be busier with the northern hub.

No, all current terminating services will run through, freeing up loads of capacity. Instead of Victoria they'll either become fully through services or trun back at Stalybridge or Rochdale (hence the new facilities at these places)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was it this?
http://www.noma53.com/

That is certainly in the right area and I cannot envisualise another such large project in the area. The Co-operative movement have had a large frontage presence on one side of Corporation Street for very many years now.

 

[Dunc108]

No, all current terminating services will run through, freeing up loads of capacity. Instead of Victoria they'll either become fully through services or trun back at Stalybridge or Rochdale (hence the new facilities at these places)

And loads of capacity it will need when the Ordsall Curve opens & TPE comes this way...

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Writing as a stranger, what is that dreadful building between Hunts Bank and Walkers croft. On some Street View images the park is still there and then from the junction up Hunts bank is this alien spaceship building that does not seem to have windows.

Anyone know?....

Chetham's School of Music. (It's written on the building)

 

[Dunc108]

Chetham's School of Music. (It's written on the building)

is it some sort of extension theyve slapped on the side? is it that ugly thing that partially blocks Vics facade?

 

[Silv1983]

Lots of activity yesterday between Deal St Jct and Salford West Jct by network rail - including uprooting and clearing all vegetation and trees around the disused side of Salford Central station. Anyone in the know? Something to do with the Chord perhaps. All I hear at work is rumours about sidings for 319s, and/or new bay platforms - but no one is sure.

 

[DJH1971]

Lots of activity yesterday between Deal St Jct and Salford West Jct by network rail - including uprooting and clearing all vegetation and trees around the disused side of Salford Central station. Anyone in the know? Something to do with the Chord perhaps. All I hear at work is rumours about sidings for 319s, and/or new bay platforms - but no one is sure.

Just wondering if they could be putting the disused platforms back into use for services to Liverpool, Warrington and North Wales, as it was thought about some time ago and looks rather do-able.

I also take these rumours would add some more weight into 319's coming up north then.

 

[snail]

Just wondering if they could be putting the disused platforms back into use for services to Liverpool, Warrington and North Wales, as it was thought about some time ago and looks rather do-able.

The Northern Hub proposals include passive provision for routing the Chat Moss lines through the former platforms 3 & 4 with the possibility of adding a 5th platform using the island created by P4. Others will know better than me but my reading of it is that rebuilding the station is not included in the Northern Hub funding but money could be found through TfGM and other bodies. Salford council are very keen on this happening to tie in with their redevelopment of the area either side of the railway viaducts.

 

[lancastrian]

There used to be 17 platforms! 1-10 were bays, of which only 9 and 10 are left now numbered 1 and 2. These bays were islands, with a siding in between the higher numbered ones that always seemed to have locos stabled on them in my memory. There also used to be loco stabling outside both East Junction and West Junction signal boxes plus also sometimes on the Wall Side loop (and I'm talking late 80s here....)

Through platforms were 11-16. 11 was slightly closer to the concourse than 3 is, and was divided in 2 with crossovers from the through lines. 11 also joined directly onto P1 at Manchester Exchange with yet another set of crossovers, so 3 separate sections of continuous platform. Between 11 and 12 were a pair of through lines plus the Wall Side loop used for stabling banking engines up Miles Platting bank. 12/13 and 14/15 were wide curvy islands. 16 sat behind 15, with 17 an east facing bay.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapata.
lk 2

I used to use these through platforms a lot in the 1980's before the Windsor Link was opened. I usually caught the Blackpool trains from platform 12 or 13, they would then call at the now closed platforms at Salford Central, next stop Bolton. I also remember parcels vans often being loaded on platform 17.

I know that the through platforms we very curvy, BUT to me that didn't seem to cause any problems, people just used their common sense. This is now something that has been legislated out of existence by 'Elf n Safety'. A similar 'problem', NOT is delaying the rebuilding of Low Moor Station. Also Bristol Temple Meads, must a a total health hazard with those many curved platforms.

I am certain that it wasn't the supposed need to replace Victoria's curved platforms that caused the rebuild. It was purely greed, to sell off some of the land to build the Arena. This because railways were soon to all close and who would want to use them when they have a car (obviously never tried parking in Manchester)

Sadly I fear that apart from actually demolishing the Arena, the hope of building 2 extra through platforms or even a relief line through Victoria is not going to happen. Once again the chronic short-sightedness of our suppose elected representatives is shown to be glaring atrocious. So often as I look around the country, I see so many stupid decisions, that where supposed to 'save money' cost far more than the money saved to reverse.

I fear that once the Northern Hub works are complete, along with all the extra services that will be passing through Victoria, these particular 'chickens' will definitely be coming home to 'roust'. At least there is still the possibility of the proposed Western bay platforms and the extra through platforms at Salford Central, both still have the space to replace them.

 

[WatcherZero]

is it some sort of extension theyve slapped on the side? is it that ugly thing that partially blocks Vics facade?

(Victoria across the street on the left)

Its a new building housing the music schools teaching and performing rooms, the performing rooms in the medieval buildings will now be converted into student accomodation. They are next going to demolish the Palatine building (pictured below) to open views from the medieval parts of the school out across the river and finally build a new 400 seat concert venue.

 

[snail]

Perhaps all that space that's currently wasted on the city side of the current tram platforms (according to posts above the site of platforms 1-7) could have a new arena built on it- with the MEN/NYNEX being demolished to free up space to reopen the third pair of through lines?

Hmmm. The arena cost about £55M to build in 1996. How much would you spend to create two new platforms 20 years on? (Bear in mind it's taken about as long to find the £20M for the new roof).

PS It's now the Phones 4U Arena. :roll:

 

[HowardGWR]

(Victoria across the street on the left)

Its a new building housing the music schools teaching and performing rooms, the performing rooms in the medieval buildings will now be converted into student accomodation. They are next going to demolish the Palatine building (pictured below) to open views from the medieval parts of the school out across the river and finally build a new 400 seat concert venue.

Thanks very much. The view as you come out of the old station is horrific as one just sees a blank wall. Do they have planning officers in Manchester?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Its a new building housing the music schools teaching and performing rooms, the performing rooms in the medieval buildings will now be converted into student accomodation. They are next going to demolish the Palatine building to open views from the medieval parts of the school out across the river and finally build a new 400 seat concert venue.

This will, togther with Manchester Catherdral, give a unified historical frontage to the Manchester side of the river.

 

[lancastrian]

Thanks very much. The view as you come out of the old station is horrific as one just sees a blank wall. Do they have planning officers in Manchester?

Well if they actually do have Planning Officers in Manchester, one must question whether they know what they are doing. Although this is not just a Manchester problem, planning officers all around the country, seem to have a very blinkered' approach to planning.

Which seems to me, if its old; 'knock it down'. If is a new 'carbuncle' design build it, and what ever you do, DON'T take any notice about what people really want in their towns or cities.

 

[Darren R]

To be fair to the architects of the new Chetham's building, that computer-generated artist's impression really does not do it justice. There isn't a powerful enough computer on the planet that could give justice to how ugly, brutalist and monolithic it actually is! It is, to paraphrase, a monstrous carbuncle of the well-loved face of Manchester Victoria!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is the design of that building anything to do with providing a thick sound-baffling facility to keep out external sounds from the railway and the local traffic, considering the very musical nature of the school.

 

[work-traveller]

one must question whether they know what they are doing.

As the saying goes, 'those who can - do, those who can't - plan'.

 

[HowardGWR]

Is the design of that building anything to do with providing a thick sound-baffling facility to keep out external sounds from the railway and the local traffic, considering the very musical nature of the school.

I'm sure it is. If the building was situated in a widely spaced modern group of buildings then it might even be considered a curiosity, but it is the juxtaposition within a few yards of Victoria frontage that is a 'two finger salute' to the station.

 

[WatcherZero]

I dont know, given a choice between a Victorian frontage or a Medieval frontage as a planning officer I would prioritise the Medieval.

 

[snail]

It looks much less imposing than the old Hunts Bank offices

 

[Dunc108]

It looks much less imposing than the old Hunts Bank offices

Yes youre right, until the 1970s most of Vic was blocked by former railway administrative offices put up by the L&Y in the 1890s, one was i think the L&Y's Parcels office? After demolition the area was flattened & landscaped but did lend a totally new visual aspect to Victoria's facade, which looked even more striking after BR sandblasted it in around 1979.