May 2014 timetable changes

[Cletus]

Any ideas when will the Southeastern timetable be released?

Now

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/your-journey/timetables/

Up to 4th October. (What's happening then?)

 

[Class 170101]

Now

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/your-journey/timetables/

Up to 4th October. (What's happening then?)

Thameslink related?

 

[user15681]

Thameslink related?

Not that I'm aware of. 4th October should be when the timetable is slightly altered for the leaf fall season.

 

[thealexweb]

I agree with that I must say, least with Wigan NW having a Man Airport direct fast service you no longer necessarily have to cross to Wallgate and this will be faster than the Southport - Airport alternative, unless of course you need to get to Bolton.... Also one advantage of TPE via Wigan NW is better connectivity with Liverpool services via St Helens as they certainly aren't frequent if you change at Preston, and the Ormskirk route is somewhat hamstrung by a non clockface timetable even if it is more direct.

It seems it takes 49-50mins with Transpennine via Willows vs 60mins via Bolton, however post electrification of the Bolton to Wigan NW route in 2017 will see this fall to approx 50mins as well probably.

 

[Class377/5]

Thameslink related?

Thameslink related changes to Southeastern service patterns (ie transfers to TSGN) are coming on the 21st Dec which is a week after the winter timetable change. May explain some partial timetabling.

 

[Bob Ames]

Given that overall the Wigan stations benefit massively from next month my sympathy is somewhat limited. For its size Wigan has a fantastic service that goes above and beyond what towns its size deserve.

Perhaps, but whether Wiganers deserve it or not is irrelevant: Intercity TOCs call there because it is centrally-located between Liverpool and Manchester, making it a good place for a WCML interchange. Think of Wigan NW like Oxenholme: Intercity TOCs call there to provide connections with the Lake District, not for the benefit of local residents*.


* Some of whom are whining little s**tbags for complaining about the noise of idling 185s at night, despite the fact they paid less for their homes due to proximity with the line.

 

[northwichcat]

* Some of whom are whining little s**tbags for complaining about the noise of idling 185s at night, despite the fact they paid less for their homes due to proximity with the line.

I'm sure a lot of them purchased houses before 185s were introduced and expected newer trains to be quieter not nosier.

 

[thealexweb]

Perhaps, but whether Wiganers deserve it or not is irrelevant: Intercity TOCs call there because it is centrally-located between Liverpool and Manchester, making it a good place for a WCML interchange. Think of Wigan NW like Oxenholme: Intercity TOCs call there to provide connections with the Lake District, not for the benefit of local residents*.


* Some of whom are whining little s**tbags for complaining about the noise of idling 185s at night, despite the fact they paid less for their homes due to proximity with the line.

A comprise should be made where Transpennine's services run from Scotland to Liverpool via Wigan and Virgin's Scotland to London services run partially through Wigan and partially through Bolton & Manchester.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

A comprise should be made where Transpennine's services run from Scotland to Liverpool via Wigan and Virgin's Scotland to London services run partially through Wigan and partially through Bolton & Manchester.

For the services via Brum or the direct ones via the Trent Valley? I'm sure residents of Glasgow, Carlisle, the Lakes, Northern and Western Lancashire would love to have journey times extended running via Bolton instead of direct via the WCML. In the cases of either route I'd say it's imperative they stick to the WCML and have as quick a journey time as possible - I suspect a considerable amount of Lake District tourism relies heavily on very attractive sub-3 hour travel times from London and 2-hour~ travel times from the West Midlands. Similarly I can't imagine many Lancastrians would be pleased to have their 90-120 min journeys to Birmingham extended by half an hour or more because Bolton lost out on some train services in a sense completely unrelated to Virgin West Coast services. Out of interest just how much demand is there, realistically, from Bolton to the Lakes, Carlisle and Scotland - enough to justify a lot of playing about with InterCity timetables to accommodate what you seem to imply as sporadic services via Bolton to compensate for losing TPE?

 

[Class 170101]

How about extendng one of the London to Manchester services onwards to Edinburgh / Glasgow instead? (probably one of the via Stoke services)

Of course more Pendolinos / Voyagers would be required but that way all would be happy.

 

[thealexweb]

For the services via Brum or the direct ones via the Trent Valley? I'm sure residents of Glasgow, Carlisle, the Lakes, Northern and Western Lancashire would love to have journey times extended running via Bolton instead of direct via the WCML. In the cases of either route I'd say it's imperative they stick to the WCML and have as quick a journey time as possible - I suspect a considerable amount of Lake District tourism relies heavily on very attractive sub-3 hour travel times from London and 2-hour~ travel times from the West Midlands. Similarly I can't imagine many Lancastrians would be pleased to have their 90-120 min journeys to Birmingham extended by half an hour or more because Bolton lost out on some train services in a sense completely unrelated to Virgin West Coast services. Out of interest just how much demand is there, realistically, from Bolton to the Lakes, Carlisle and Scotland - enough to justify a lot of playing about with InterCity timetables to accommodate what you seem to imply as sporadic services via Bolton to compensate for losing TPE?

There would not necessarily need to be any reduction in journey times. The currently hourly Edinburgh / Glasgow to Manchester merges with the one of the Manchester to London services. This is not that different from what Virgin has already done in merging their Scotland to Birmingham in to their Birmingham to London services.

I travel frequently between Bolton and Edinburgh. Like a lot of people I now have to change at Preston most of the time. But prior to December 2013 I would rarely get my reserved seat and most if not all services would be full and standing. It would ease slightly after Carlisle but you would still need a reservation to be able to get a seat.

Also Virgin has already committed itself to at least one service to and from London for Bolton by 2016. They will need to achieve this promise somehow.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How about extendng one of the London to Manchester services onwards to Edinburgh / Glasgow instead? (probably one of the via Stoke services)

Of course more Pendolinos / Voyagers would be required but that way all would be happy.

A big order of new 39xs should be ordered. Enough is needed for Virgin to cascade its current Voyagers and Pretendalino to another franchise(s) and to take on Transpennine's Scottish routes. This would also allows the 350/4's to be sent to London Midland.

 

[Starmill]

I travel frequently between Bolton and Edinburgh.

As I said before, say you traveled frequently from Bury to Edinbrugh? Or Rochdale to Edinburgh? Do you live in Bolton? Bolton has direct trains to Wigan. The other two don't - you'd have to go via Manchester, but they are all very similar centres of Greater Manchester. What matters is that Greater Manchester has a direct link to Scotland that is as quick as possible - by far the highest priority (and the best place for everyone to connect to it, because that is where all the local transport goes to!) for that link is Manchester City Centre.

At the end of the day, Bolton passengers do not justify any messing around with inter-city timetables. Deal with it!

 

[merlodlliw]

Just over a month to go and ATW have not put their May timetable up yet.

 

[berneyarms]

Just over a month to go and ATW have not put their May timetable up yet.

They are far from alone in that.

 

[Thomas6187]

The Denton Flyer has been retimed back to 09:22 off Stockport.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

ScotRail changes:

Mondays-Fridays and Saturdays:
Monday to Friday peak time services between Aberdeen and Inverurie;
Additional Monday to Saturday services between Glasgow and Oban;
Through trains between Balloch, Dalmuir and Cumbernauld;
Additional Monday to Friday services between Glasgow and Ayr;
Through trains between Edinburgh and Ayr via Carstairs;
Additional hourly Monday to Saturday services between Glasgow and Gourock;
Additional Monday to Friday early morning service from Wemyss Bay to Glasgow.

Sundays:
Additional services between Glasgow and Aberdeen;
A later train from Glasgow to Wemyss Bay in the evening;
An extra lunchtime train from Glasgow to Ardrossan Harbour offering an improved Campbeltown ferry connection;
Introduction of Sunday services at Ardrossan Town, Anderston and
between Glasgow, Maryhill and Anniesland.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Quite a few new timetables up now, only one or two odd TOCs missing.

Cambridge-Stansted Airport GA services commence 21 July according to their timetables.

 

[berneyarms]

The new National Rail timetable pdfs are now online as complete pdf files at the bottom of the page below:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/3828.aspx

 

[IanD]

Note that the Denton Flyer is now included in it's own timetable 78A with the mileages published in the NRT for the route for the first time in many years. Might have some effect on the 'shortest route' rule.

 

[berneyarms]

They did that in the Winter TT as a late change from the original files.

 

[IanD]

Must have missed that - thought I'd picked up all the updates.

 

[berneyarms]

It was issued in early January.

 

[snail]

I travel frequently between Bolton and Edinburgh. Like a lot of people I now have to change at Preston most of the time. But prior to December 2013 I would rarely get my reserved seat and most if not all services would be full and standing. It would ease slightly after Carlisle but you would still need a reservation to be able to get a seat.

And how many other passengers got on at Bolton to travel beyond Preston? It's ok proposing additional stops but if it's for the benefit of a relative handful of passengers then maybe you just have to accept that a change at Preston or Wigan is needed. Most of the seats are occupied before the train gets to Bolton.

Preston to Birmingham is slow enough as it is, adding another half hour by diverting through Bolton and Manchester could reduce demand I suppose by making the car a viable alternative for many people.

 

[dannypye9999]

in my opinion they should've electrified the Bolton route first before the chat moss route

 

[thealexweb]

in my opinion they should've electrified the Bolton route first before the chat moss route

It would have benefited a lot of more services but there are more engineering challenges to solve first.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And how many other passengers got on at Bolton to travel beyond Preston? It's ok proposing additional stops but if it's for the benefit of a relative handful of passengers then maybe you just have to accept that a change at Preston or Wigan is needed. Most of the seats are occupied before the train gets to Bolton.

Preston to Birmingham is slow enough as it is, adding another half hour by diverting through Bolton and Manchester could reduce demand I suppose by making the car a viable alternative for many people.

Handful? No. I watch some get off at Preston but most passengers do stay on. Some more get off at Lancaster, etc but the train is still fullish by the time it reaches Scotland.

Merging the Scotland to Manchester services in to some of the Manchester to London would not lead to any longer journey times. Its the opposite, if a 390 ran the whole route it would only lead to a reduction in journey times (between Scotland and Manchester).

 

[Manchester77]

Merging the Scotland to Manchester services in to some of the Manchester to London would not lead to any longer journey times. Its the opposite, if a 390 ran the whole route it would only lead to a reduction in journey times (between Scotland and Manchester).

so what out if the 3tph which terminate at manchester would 1 go to Scotland and the other 2 terminate or would both Glasgow and Edinburgh get 1tph with the third train terminating at Piccadilly?

 

[Class 170101]

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

so what out if the 3tph which terminate at manchester would 1 go to Scotland and the other 2 terminate or would both Glasgow and Edinburgh get 1tph with the third train terminating at Piccadilly?

I would suggest that it would still be every two hours to both Edinburgh and Glasgow (hourly therefore to Carstairs Jn) unless capacity can be found for an extra service on the West Coast Main Line. The 1st service would a London to Manchester via Stoke service rather than via Crewe as Crewe alraedy has an hourly service to Scotland.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

The LM stuff is up but not where the current ones are! Link below
http://www.londonmidland.com/your-journey/timetables/timetables-from-18May/

 

[Starmill]

Oh f***.

The first train to Manchester from Gatley, East Didsbury, Burnage and Mauldeth Road has been re-timed to arrive at Manchester Piccadilly 1 minute later, at 0626 from 0625 at present. This means it no longer offers a valid connection to the 0635 VT service to London.

Way to go!

 

[infobleep]

The previous connection was probably just a bonus or do they actually make efforts to run trains so they connect. After all there are hundreds of trains and you can't connect with them all.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Manchester77]

Oh f***.

The first train to Manchester from Gatley, East Didsbury, Burnage and Mauldeth Road has been re-timed to arrive at Manchester Piccadilly 1 minute later, at 0626 from 0625 at present. This means it no longer offers a valid connection to the 0635 VT service to London.

Way to go!

Having a look on real time trains the train from Gatley arrives into platform 9 and the train to Euston into platform 8 so it might be possible to make a tight connection since they can arrive into the platforms adjacent to each other.