May 2023 changes

[Llandudno]

Halton Curve trains between Chester and Liverpool were originally planned to be restored to the hourly frequency in May, but it appears that the one train per every 2 hours frequency is to continue.

Presumably this is due to TfW having unit shortages caused by recent fires to some 175 units?
Shame they couldn’t have borrowed some 150s from Northern?

Another example of TfW prioritising routes within Wales rather than a service that operates wholly within England!

 

[D6130]

Another example of TfW prioritising routes within Wales rather than a service that operates wholly within England!

As TfW is financed by the Welsh taxpayers I don't really find that surprising. Perhaps the Chester-Liverpool service should be transferred to Northern? However, I appreciate that the Crewe-Shrewsbury locals would be more problematic, as Northern don't have a traincrew depot in either town.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Halton Curve trains between Chester and Liverpool were originally planned to be restored to the hourly frequency in May, but it appears that the one train per every 2 hours frequency is to continue.

Presumably this is due to TfW having unit shortages caused by recent fires to some 175 units?
Shame they couldn’t have borrowed some 150s from Northern?

Another example of TfW prioritising routes within Wales rather than a service that operates wholly within England!

It doesn't make sense to prioritise a service that has only existed for a short time and has plenty of alternatives by way of Merseyrail, plus which is only really going to gain its full value when it becomes a Llandudno service. If they need to, they should temporarily withdraw it entirely in preference to short-forming busy services on the Coast.

 

[Llandudno]

Indeed the hourly Liverpool - Halton Curve - Llandudno service is supposed to be starting in December 2023 (already at least one year late!) although I would be surprised if it doesn’t commence until May 2024 - if at all!

Looks as though the 2 trains per hour on Wrexham - Bidston has vanished as well!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed the hourly Liverpool - Halton Curve - Llandudno service is supposed to be starting in December 2023 (already at least one year late!) although I would be surprised if it doesn’t commence until May 2024 - if at all!]

I think it will, but it's last behind everything else, i.e. it requires all 197s to be in service. Which makes sense, as I said, because it's a new service and there are alternatives (slow ones, admittedly, but also very frequent ones which can offset the slowness). It's much more important not to disrupt established patterns and to have enough capacity on them than to introduce a service which, while beneficial, doesn't do much bar save Liverpool passengers having to use Merseyrail and change at Chester, which for some will still be more convenient anyway unless they live in central Liverpool or on one of the City Line routes near it.

The service is a good idea, sure, but it's less important than pretty much every other TfW route (including even the Conwy Valley, which is now the only public transport service on that route since the loss of the T19 bus).

Looks as though the 2 trains per hour on Wrexham - Bidston has vanished as well!

Presumably because of delays to the 230s.

 

[Greybeard33]

Presumably this is due to TfW having unit shortages caused by recent fires to some 175 units?
Shame they couldn’t have borrowed some 150s from Northern?

Does not TfW still have 150269 and 150270 on loan from Northern? See this post:

Staying at TFW till at least May 2023

 

[craigybagel]

As TfW is financed by the Welsh taxpayers I don't really find that surprising. Perhaps the Chester-Liverpool service should be transferred to Northern? However, I appreciate that the Crewe-Shrewsbury locals would be more problematic, as Northern don't have a traincrew depot in either town.

It's complete nonsense. And as for transferring routes to Northern, the words frying pan and fire spring to mind

It doesn't make sense to prioritise a service that has only existed for a short time and has plenty of alternatives by way of Merseyrail, plus which is only really going to gain its full value when it becomes a Llandudno service. If they need to, they should temporarily withdraw it entirely in preference to short-forming busy services on the Coast.

It's rare that I agree with Bletchleyite, but I'm 100% behind this. Maybe not the temporary complete withdrawal, as the current 2 hourly service is useful for keeping current staff competent and training new staff on the route, but the reasoning behind focusing on other routes is completely sound. There's still a massive training backlog to catch up on at TfW thanks to COVID and the near complete replacement of the fleet, there just isn't the ability to cover everything on a full service at the moment. Something has to give, and this seems like a sensible choice.

 

[tommy2215]

I see two early Sunday morning workings from Etches Park to Sheffield will be passenger services from May. This is great as it means the first Sunday train from Derby and Chesterfield to Sheffield is now more than two hours earlier than pre-covid!

 

[ChrisC]

Announcement today that there will be roof works going on at New St for several months which will require pairs of platforms being closed for 4 weeks at a time. XC have stated that this will have a severe impact on service between Birmingham/Tamworth/Burton/Derby/NottsThis might explain the cut in services.

I’ve only just noticed that Nottingham to Birmingham is only going to be 1tph which is the Nottingham-Cardiff train. This results in a loss of a reliable connection into XC trains to the SW at Derby or Birmingham. I’ve often used the 0940 from Nottingham to connect at Derby into the 1031 HST to Plymouth as this was the first departure from Nottingham which allowed Off Peak tickets to be used. This will not now be possible without a tight connection at Derby using the Matlock train.

 

[dk1]

I’ve only just noticed that Nottingham to Birmingham is only going to be 1tph which is the Nottingham-Cardiff train. This results in a loss of a reliable connection into XC trains to the SW at Derby or Birmingham. I’ve often used the 0940 from Nottingham to connect at Derby into the 1031 HST to Plymouth as this was the first departure from Nottingham which allowed Off Peak tickets to be used. This will not now be possible without a tight connection at Derby using the Matlock train.

Isn’t that due to New Street station works mentioned a little earlier in this thread?

 

[185143]

Another reason why until we get the new order that nothing Virgin/Avanti wise has ever been able to stop at Liverpool South Parkway.

With the exception of when Lime Street was being remodelled and platform 1? was extended to accommodate 390s!

 

[Scott1]

Isn’t that due to New Street station works mentioned a little earlier in this thread?

Yes, there is roof works at New St that will close upto 4 platforms at a time. It's not permanent.

 

[The Planner]

Yes, there is roof works at New St that will close upto 4 platforms at a time. It's not permanent.

It shouldnt ever be more than two at a time.

 

[AJDesiro]

It shouldnt ever be more than two at a time.

Apparently platforms 5 and 6 will be closed throughout the works, with other pairs platforms being closed at intervals.

 

[ChrisC]

I see from Realtime Trains that the 2tph is due to return on the Robin Hood Line south of Mansfield Woodhouse but on Saturdays only. The Mansfield Woodhouse terminators were removed when EMR temporary covid timetables were introduced, and except for a couple of Monday to Friday peak time trains have never returned, leaving Mansfield with only 1tph for most of the day. After 3 years, I now was thinking that they would never return, so I suppose reinstating them on Saturdays is at least a start. Overcrowding has been very bad on Saturdays with passengers being left behind. I used to be a regular user of the route but have used it very rarely these last 3 years, because the 1tph neither fits in with my onward connections at Nottingham or the bus to the station from home.

 

[Bald Rick]

I see from Realtime Trains that the 2tph is due to return on the Robin Hood Line south of Mansfield Woodhouse but on Saturdays only.

Overcrowding has been very bad on Saturdays with passengers being left behind.

There’s your reason why!

 

[hexagon789]

Either I'm looking at it wrongly, or ScotRail are restoring the 15 min Edinburgh - Glasgow via Falkirk High off-peak service but only on Saturdays? (Between about 0815 and 1715.)

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Northern have halved off-peak frequencies on the Bradford - Ilkley and Bradford - Skipton routes as an economy measure.

 

[ChrisC]

There’s your reason why!

I fully understand that and a good thing that a half hourly service is being restored on Saturdays. However, it doesn’t alter the fact that Mansfield also had 2tph to Nottingham on Monday to Friday pre covid as it had done since the line was reopened over 25 years ago. The reduction in frequency came about as part of EMR’s temporary Covid Timetables. Hopefully the restoring of the 2tph in Saturdays, where it’s desperately needed, is an indication of the intention to eventually restore the Monday to Friday pre covid frequency. I also fully appreciate that EMR have been short of stock for regional services.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Northern have halved off-peak frequencies on the Bradford - Ilkley and Bradford - Skipton routes as an economy measure.

Indeed, as has been discussed up thread.

 

[43055]

I see from Realtime Trains that the 2tph is due to return on the Robin Hood Line south of Mansfield Woodhouse but on Saturdays only. The Mansfield Woodhouse terminators were removed when EMR temporary covid timetables were introduced, and except for a couple of Monday to Friday peak time trains have never returned, leaving Mansfield with only 1tph for most of the day. After 3 years, I now was thinking that they would never return, so I suppose reinstating them on Saturdays is at least a start. Overcrowding has been very bad on Saturdays with passengers being left behind. I used to be a regular user of the route but have used it very rarely these last 3 years, because the 1tph neither fits in with my onward connections at Nottingham or the bus to the station from home.

Literally the feeling I have with the missing services on the North Staffs with improvements happening on all the other routes that had been cut over the last few years. Slightly bias but would of thought EMR would want to plug the larger 2 hour gaps before boosting the Robin Hood back to half hourly.

 

[LowLevel]

Literally the feeling I have with the missing services on the North Staffs with improvements happening on all the other routes that had been cut over the last few years. Slightly bias but would of thought EMR would want to plug the larger 2 hour gaps before boosting the Robin Hood back to half hourly.

Depends on your motivation for doing it. Saturday overcrowding on the Robin Hoods is always horrific even with 3 car trains. It is probably the number 1 problem for relief at the minute. I think the other trains will be back in due course but it'll take a while - this time it's the remaining missing Leicester - Lincolns and Matlocks coming back too.

 

[Envoy]

Bad connection at Crewe for North Wales on Sundays. Train to Holyhead departs Crewe P11 at 13.27. Train from south Wales (to Manchester) arrives Crewe P5 at 13.28. Train from Birmingham (to Liverpool) arrives Crewe P11 at 13.32. Next train to north Wales (to Holyhead) departs Crewe 14.29 - so, a lot of people have got to hang around Crewe station for almost an hour.

 

[ChrisC]

Depends on your motivation for doing it. Saturday overcrowding on the Robin Hoods is always horrific even with 3 car trains. It is probably the number 1 problem for relief at the minute. I think the other trains will be back in due course but it'll take a while - this time it's the remaining missing Leicester - Lincolns and Matlocks coming back too.

Hopefully, if the half hourly Saturday service on the Robin Hood Line runs smoothly with no delays getting through the single line sections, the same timetable can eventually be extended to Monday to Friday. Just starting with Saturdays is perhaps a good way to test it. I still don’t see why the tried and tested pre covid timetable which ran successfully for 25 years can’t be reinstated.

 

[LowLevel]

Hopefully, if the half hourly Saturday service on the Robin Hood Line runs smoothly with no delays getting through the single line sections, the same timetable can eventually be extended to Monday to Friday. Just starting with Saturdays is perhaps a good way to test it. I still don’t see why the tried and tested pre covid timetable which ran successfully for 25 years can’t be reinstated.

The problem I suspect is the daytime Woodhouse trains were never that busy. They were extremely useful for longer distance travellers and for improving the attractiveness of the offering but if you loaded to 40 people you were doing well.

Of course if it was all about economy you'd shut the line from Shirebrook to Worksop anyway as it's effectively a basic case. I suspect it is very much a social necessity now though.

 

[ChrisC]

The problem I suspect is the daytime Woodhouse trains were never that busy. They were extremely useful for longer distance travellers and for improving the attractiveness of the offering but if you loaded to 40 people you were doing well.

I completely understand. It’s just very frustrating, as someone who has used the line since its reopening for longer distance journeys. Missing connections in Nottingham by just a few minutes, especially on the Norwich to Liverpool route is so annoying and even a day out to somewhere like Lincoln is no longer so attractive. I’m mostly using the bus into Nottingham now and sometimes it’s just far more attractive and less time consuming to do the whole journey by car.

 

[a1904]

Confirmation of massive cuts between Leeds and Ilkley/Skipton/Bradford Forster Square:

Number of trains between Bradford, Ilkley and Skipton to be slashed from May

THE number of trains running between Bradford and Ilkley and Skipton will be slashed from May in a bid to make the service more reliable.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

Interesting that they are cutting all the off peak services that are currently never cancelled so I doubt it'll do anything to the first trains in the morning being cancelled most days

 

[sufian123]

Hi

Don’t know if it’s been mentioned but looking at RTT chiltern aren’t going to be extending to Kidderminster from May tt change. Does this mean no more Loco hauled?

 

[Bantamzen]

Confirmation of massive cuts between Leeds and Ilkley/Skipton/Bradford Forster Square:

Number of trains between Bradford, Ilkley and Skipton to be slashed from May

THE number of trains running between Bradford and Ilkley and Skipton will be slashed from May in a bid to make the service more reliable.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

Interesting that they are cutting all the off peak services that are currently never cancelled so I doubt it'll do anything to the first trains in the morning being cancelled most days

Really, are they hiding behind this crappy staffing excuse again? The timetable has worked perfectly well through winter, all they are doing is potentially losing revenue in the summer. Its really starting to feel like the railways are no longer run for passengers any more. If there were a way to improve bus services through the Aire Valley towards Bradford & Leeds, I'd be seriously thinking about a mode change....

 

[sammyg901]

Hi

Don’t know if it’s been mentioned but looking at RTT chiltern aren’t going to be extending to Kidderminster from May tt change. Does this mean no more Loco hauled?

Wow, sure they were there yesterday! Looks like just one extension to Stourbridge Junction https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G55796/2023-06-01/detailed

Still loco hauled though (they'd have massive overcrowding if they didn't keep these going for now)